LAND DRAINAGE GRANTS. (Hansard, 23 May 1940)

§ The Minister of Agriculture (Mr. R. S. Hudson)
I beg to move, That the Land Drainage Grants (Postponement of Prescribed Date) Order, 1940, postponing the prescribed date provided for in Sub-section (3) of Section 15 of the Agriculture Act, 1937, a copy of which was presented to this House on 30th April, be approved. In the Act of 1937 it was laid down that these land drainage grants should continue for three years, and power was given to continue them for two successive periods of 12 months each. This is the first of the successive periods, and we require authority to continue their operation for a further period of 12 months. The scheme has been singularly successful. The total grants amount, roughly, to £500,000, and applications have been increasing at a very rapid rate lately. It is interesting that, whereas in the first 2½ years schemes involving only just over £700,000 were put forward, in the short period from January to May this year, the schemes put forward amount to £330,000, and their number is still rapidly rising, which seems to indicate that the grants are serving a very useful purpose and are appreciated.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Heneage (Louth)
I am very glad that this power is being extended, especially in view of the amount of drainage work to be carried out under the Agriculture (Miscellaneous War Provisions) Act of this year, but there are one or two important observations to be made on the situation. Although this money can be voted it cannot be spent unless the labour situation improves. There is a drift of labour away from the drainage authorities to industry. I hope 382 that that will be stopped under the powers conferred upon the Government yesterday, and I ask the Minister to be prompt in stopping it, for the sake of the drainage authorities. Under the increases envisaged under this Order there will be more work to be done, and we shall want more men, and we should like to have an option upon prisoners of war, interned aliens and any others who are available for this work. They worked very well in gangs in the last war, and I hope they will be so employed in this war. As regards schemes which have been carried out with this money, some Drainage Boards have gone in for as many as 30 new schemes. The machinery of the Act is working well on the whole. There may be a little difficulty with the county councils, and I hope that the Ministry will continue their previous excellent work of negotiating with the authorities concerned, because in the past they have been very helpful with their assistance and advice in working the scheme and in dealing with the many local authorities who are involved. I should like to thank the Drainage Department of the Ministry of Agriculture, which has been most helpful; and as far as the catchment authorities are concerned, I wish to say that we shall do our best to carry on the work.

§ Mr. Henry Haslam (Horncastle)
I should also like to welcome this extension Order. Drainage is one of the most urgent problems which agriculture has to face, and there are very large areas in Lincolnshire which require more drainage facilities. I hardly think I should be in order in referring to field drainage, but as the previous Minister of Agriculture said in answer to a Question that it was receiving attention I should like to express the wish that attention will be concentrated on this very important problem. Apart from that side of it, drainage work is proceeding well, and I should like to express my gratitude to the Minister for the encouragement which he is giving to it.

§ Mr. Kirkwood (Dumbarton Burghs)
We have seen wonders being performed between yesterday and to-day—it shows what can be done in an hour or two in this House—and there is certain action which I should like the Minister of Agriculture to take. In connection with this 383 grant for land drainage, which according to the landlords' representatives is going to improve the land, going to improve food production in this country and in crease the income of the farmers, I want the Minister to take precautions against the landlords taking advantage of it to increase rents. We have seen the sort of Measure which can be put through this House in two hours. This business is a mere bagatelle by comparison with it. During the last war we issued an Order-in-Council—

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Colonel Clifton Brown)
This Order offers only a very limited field of discussion. We can discuss only the extension of time and not the object of the Order as a whole.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
We are giving power to disburse money, and that money is going to the landlords, and I want to point out what was done during the last war. We were able to get through this House an Order-in-Council providing that for the duration of the war and six months afterwards there should be no increase in house rents. I want to see the same thing done for farmers, so that there shall be no increase in the rents of farms for the duration of the war and five years afterwards. That will ensure that the farmer who gives of his best in order to produce the necessary food will get a return and have a security such as he feels at the moment that he has not got. I ask the Minister to see whether it is possible to do that, because it is evident to me that this House is prepared to give any powers, and surely it is not too much to ask the landlords not to take any more than they have been taking. They have walked away with all the grants that have gone from this House to subsidise agriculture, and if rents go up it means that wages go down. It is because rents have been high that the wages of agriculture have been low. I would like an answer from the Minister, if it is possible.

§ Mr. Haslam
I would like to point out to the hon. Member that in Lincolnshire, at any rate, many landlords are not receiving any rent at all. Further, it is not a question of rent going up and wages going down; for the last 10 years it has been wages going up and rents going down.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
I have replied before in this House to that argument. We are 384 willing to take this burden off your hands and to take the land. How the landlords can continue to cling to a business which is such a burden the Lord only knows, for I do not. We have offered to take this burden away from you. Why do you not agree? Because the statement is not true. Therefore, I would ask the Minister to reply to my question.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
On a point of Order. May I not ask for a reply from the Minister to the question which I put to him? Or is this the way we are to be treated because there is no Opposition?

§ Mr. Speaker
The Question is, "That this Order be approved."

§ Mr. Kirkwood
On a point of Order. I put a question to you, Mr. Speaker, and you are the guardian of the rights of private Members. As a private Member I put it to you: Have I not the right to a reply to the question which I put to the Minister in a perfectly Parliamentary manner?

§ Mr. Hudson
I hope that the hon. Member will acquit me of any desire to refuse to answer, but this is a question, a very narrow one, as Mr. Deputy-Speaker pointed out, of whether or not this Order shall be continued. The question of landlords and rent does not arise. On a proper occasion I shall be glad to deal with that matter. This Order, made in 1937, has worked extremely well. Now we want it to be continued for another 12 months under existing conditions.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
I thank the Minister for rising and giving the reply. That is all I want; I only want a reply. We shall continue this matter at the proper time.