§ Mr. Herbert Morrison (by Private Notice)asked the Minister of Supply whether, having regard to the wide public interest in the matter and the fact that the House is about to rise for the Easter Recess, he will make a statement as to points left outstanding in relation to the question of commission on contracts, notably in regard to the visiting card of the Minister of Supply used by Captain V. R. Ullman, M.C.?
§ Mr. BurginYes, Sir. As to the general question raised by the right hon. Gentleman it is perhaps sufficient for me to say that the Order-in-Council under the Emergency Powers (Defence) Act which I outlined to the House on the 15th March has now been made and copies will be available to-morrow. I should desire to take the opportunity of again making it quite clear to the House that I can find no proof of the existence of a commission system recently developed in securing orders from the Ministry of Supply or 1977 placing orders by the Ministry of Supply. The policy of the Ministry is not to employ intermediaries. As regards the matters referred to by the right hon. Gentleman as left outstanding, I yesterday sent him full letter as to the case of Captain Ullman to which he particularly refers. The substance of this letter is that it has now been definitely established that the only thing given by me to Captain Ullman which could be said to be in the nature of a visiting card was a note admitting him to a Ministry of Supply Exhibition at Savoy Hill, written on a Ministry of Supply envelope which I hold in my hand, dated 9th December, 1939, and reading as follows:
§ "MAJOR SCRUTTON,
§ Savoy Hill House.
§ Please allow Captain Ullman of the Franco-British Electrical Company to see the exhibition of goods for manufacture.
§ LESLIE BURGIN.
§ 9th December, 1939."
§ This note has been on the records at Savoy Hill ever since and cannot therefore have been used in the way suggested by the right hon. Gentleman on 15th March. Captain Ullman has been seen and categorically denies that he has ever had or made use of any card of mine in the way suggested. He is the contracts manager of a firm holding considerable direct contracts from the Ministry of Supply. I am accordingly, as at present advised, quite unable to understand how he has come to be associated with the allegations as to irregular commissions in respect of Ministry of Supply business. I can find no evidence that he has been claiming to act as an intermediary. I have therefore asked the right hon. Gentleman to furnish me with full particulars of the information which has reached him and especially particulars of the people who claim to have actually seen the visiting card.
§ Mr. MorrisonI should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, although he has said that agents are not employed by the Government—which was never alleged—it is not the case that the Department, by dealing with these people, have recognised commission agents acting on their own volition on behalf of firms? Secondly, can the right hon. Gentleman state the salary that Captain Ullman receives from this firm? With regard to the statements which the right hon. Gentleman has made in his letter to 1978 me, I have not yet received the letter and am not in a position to deal with it.
§ Mr. BurginI have stated that the Ministry of Supply do not employ intermediaries. I emphatically deny that the Ministry recognise intermediaries at all, but the House will understand that you cannot interview a limited company. You interview somebody who calls on their behalf. In the case of Captain Ullman, he comes as the accredited contract manager of a limited company with which the Ministry of Supply are doing current business. He comes as of right in connection with contracts which are being performed, as far as I know, completely to the satisfaction of the Ministry. I cannot tell the right hon. Gentleman the relations between Captain Ullman and his employers. I have no reason to know them, but in view of the statements which the right hon. Gentleman made, I caused a senior official of the Ministry of Supply to interview Captain Ullman on Saturday last, the day following the Debate, and the information I have given to the House is gained from that interview. I am sorry if the letter addressed to the right hon. Gentleman by me and handed in in the precincts of the House yesterday has not yet reached him, but there will be an opportunity of dealing with matters in that letter otherwise than by a private notice Question.
§ Mr. McGovernIs it not the case that there are thousands of agents of business firms in London who work simply on commission for those firms in every type of industry?