HC Deb 20 March 1940 vol 358 cc2031-3

Lords Amendment: In page 12, line 40, leave out "persons" and insert: pensionable officers or servants of local authorities.

4.18 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Miss Horsbrugh)

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment and the two that follow are identical in their effect with Amendments which stood in the names of the hon. Members for St. Albans (Sir F. Fremantle) and Dundee (Mr. Foot). They concern the pension rights of officers of local authorities who take office under the Board. The first Amendment, which is practically a drafting Amendment, inserts the words "pensionable officers or servants of local authorities," because it is thought better that these words should be used throughout the Clause.

Mr. Lawson (Chester-le-Street)

I take it that later the hon. Lady will give us an explanation of this matter, because it is tied to quite a lot of other Amendments.

Miss Horsbrugh

Certainly.

Question put, and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendment in page 12, line 41, agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 13, line 2, after "servants," insert: and the rules so made shall provide for treating any pensionable officer or servant of a local authority who becomes an officer or servant of the Board within one year after that date as a pensionable officer or servant of a local authority to which those rules apply, notwithstanding that the Treasury may not have directed that the rules should apply to that authority and that no application may have been made by the authority in that behalf.

4.21 p.m.

Miss Horsbrugh

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

The other Amendments having been practically drafting Amendments, perhaps it would be as well to give an explanation on this Amendment. As the Clause stands, a pensionable local government employétransferred to the Board would not carry with him any pension rights in respect of his past local government service unless, on the request of the local authority, the Treasury directed that the rules made under the Superannuation Act, 1935, should apply to that authority. It has been suggested that it would be better if the pensionable local government employé had the right, apart from this request being made, to have his pension rights transferred. No doubt most local authorities would make the request and the Treasury would readily comply, but it has been thought that under the special conditions of this transfer it would be better to give the employé a definite right. In another Clause later in the Bill the right to compensation is given, but in many cases the employé might not wish to apply for compensation and give up his work.

4.22 p.m.

Mr. Lawson

I think the House will agree that it is a very wise step to provide that if an officer is transferred, say, from the public assistance committee to the Board, he shall not lose his pension rights in respect of his past work. I was very surprised when looking into the matter to find that he might fall between two stools. I think those concerned will be glad to know that this matter has been dealt with in this simple and straightforward way.

4.23 p.m.

Sir Francis Fremantle (St. Albans)

I should like to say on behalf of those with whom I have been acting how very grateful we are to the Minister for managing to get round the difficulty that was presented by the Rules of the House when this subject was brought forward at a previous stage of the proceedings. I am particularly interested in these movements that are made on behalf of local government officers, because I foresee, as an old local authority official myself, an enormous future before the local government service, and hope to see it by degrees being built up into a civil service complementary to and supplementary to the national Civil Service, on which we depend so much and of which we are rightly so proud. I hope those in local government service will be given all the rights which are necessary to make it a complete service, and this is a small but typical instance of what should be done with that object in view.

Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.

Subsequent Lords Amendments to page 26, line 26, agreed to.