HC Deb 14 March 1940 vol 358 cc1348-51
32. Mr. J. Griffiths

asked the Minister of Health whether, in deciding upon the number of children to be evacuated to reception areas in Wales under his new proposals, regard has been had to the household and school accommodation available in each reception area; and whether the consent of the local authorities was secured before the allocation was made?

The Minister of Health (Mr. Elliot)

The allocations to reception districts have been based on the returns of available household accommodation made by the local authorities themselves last year, and in Wales, as elsewhere, allowance has been made for accommodation which may already have been taken up as a result of private arrangements or otherwise. I am sending the hon. Member copies of a circular and memorandum which I have recently issued to the local authorities, from which he will see that provision is made for close collaboration between evacuating and receiving authorities and between billeting and education authorities with a view to ensuring, so far as possible, that the billeting and educational capacity of reception areas is used to the best advantage.

Mr. Griffiths

May I ask whether, if any local authority makes representations on the matter, the right hon. Gentleman will be prepared to reconsider them?

Mr. Elliot

I am not prepared to do that this time.

35. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make arrangements, in conference with the Minister of Transport, by which parents, whose children are evacuated at a great distance from home, may, when using the cheap fares facilities, return home the following day?

Mr. Elliot

The facilities already available permit the return journey to be made the following day, where the distance between the evacuating and receiving area is such that the double journey cannot conveniently be made in one day after allowing a reasonable time to be spent in the receiving area.

Mr. Strauss

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the children in my area are evacuated to Exeter and that, as many of the parents have more than one child, it is impossible under the present arrangements for the parents to see their children for more than a few minutes; and can he reconsider the situation and provide some solution?

Mr. Elliot

My answer applies to Exeter.

Mr. Strauss

To Exeter itself?

36. Mr. Strauss

asked the Minister of Health whether he will make arrangements in conference with the Minister of Transport, whereby parents, whose children are evacuated at a great distance from home, and whose small incomes prevent them visiting their children, even taking into account the cheap fare facilities, might periodically have free travel vouchers granted to them?

Mr. Elliot

As I said in reply to the hon. Member for West Leyton (Mr. Sorensen) on 22nd February, special assistance may be granted to parents in receipt of unemployment assistance who could not otherwise afford to visit their children, and I am proposing to empower local authorities to grant similar help to parents in receipt of public assistance. I do not think that any further action would be justified at the present time.

Mr. Strauss

Is the Minister aware that the fare to Exeter is about 13s. 6d. and that the parents have to pay, further, bus fares; that mothers who have to rely upon dependant allowances find it impossible to visit their children; and that there are mothers who have not visited their children for six months?

Mr. Elliot

No, Sir. The maximum fare is 12s. return.

Mr. Strauss

Would the right hon. Gentleman not give further consideration to this matter, as, in point of fact, it costs many parents 14s. or 15s., with bus fares, to see their children? Is it not obvious that a mother who is living on dependants' allowance cannot afford to pay that money to see her children?

Mr. Elliot

I shall be glad to give consideration to any representations made to me by the hon. Gentleman.

38. Mr. Butcher

asked the Minister of Health whether he will now give an assurance that, in the event of further evacuation of children taking place after the development of air attack, he will issue instructions that compulsory billeting shall not take place where the woman who would be responsible for the care of such children is genuinely engaged in agricultural work?

Mr. Elliot

Local authorities have been directed to make sure, when allotting evacuated children to householders, that this is done in a way which will not interfere with the maintenance of the supply of agricultural labour. They may, I am sure, be relied on to give proper consideration to all cases in which the presence of evacuated children might hinder a housewife from undertaking her customary agricultural work.

41. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Minister of Health whether, in the next evacuation scheme, he will arrange that evacuated children are sent to reception areas in which are already billeted children from the same evacuable area; whether he will avoid, as far as possible, having many sets of teachers and children from different schools in one particular area; and whether he will arrange for children from Leyton and other urban Essex districts to go to the reception areas in rural Essex?

Mr. Elliot

In making plans for further evacuation, we have had to take account of the results of the scheme carried out in September last. The effect of this scheme, particularly in the case of London, was to concentrate the great majority of the children evacuated in the more accessible reception areas, leaving the remoter areas comparatively little used. The bulk of the accommodation available for the new scheme is, therefore, to be found in the areas to which few children were sent last time, while the areas whose accommodation was heavily drawn upon then have less spare accommodation now. While I am in agreement with the hon. Member as to the value of the principles which he has in mind, the extent to which it may be possible to observe them in practice must be limited by the factors to which I have already referred.

Mr. Sorensen

May I take it that the right hon. Gentleman will encourage as far as possible in any new evacuation scheme that children from districts such as Leyton shall go to places where there is suitable accommodation, seeing that numbers of the children previously sent away have already returned home?

Mr. Elliot

Yes, Sir; and I think that if the hon. Gentleman will pursue the matter and come round and discuss it with my officials, we might be able to go into this case in more detail.

42. Mr. Sorensen

asked the Minister of Health whether, in respect of new evacuation proposals, he has further considered the question of assisting the evacuation of invalids and aged persons?

Mr. Elliot

Yes. Sir, but, as I announced in reply to the right hon. Member for Wakefield (Mr. A. Greenwood) on 15th February, the new plans which have been made will apply to school children only, not to adults.

Mr. Sorensen

Can the right hon. Gentleman explain why they should not apply to adults as well, especially as numbers of these people are in great anxiety lest they be left in some vulnerable area?

Mr. Elliot

The strain on billeting accommodation is already very great indeed, and I fear that we cannot add to the numbers of persons whom we intend to send out.

50. Sir George Mitcheson

asked the Minister of Health whether he can furnish an approximate estimate of the cost, to the latest available date, of the evacuation of school children?

Mr. Elliot

I regret that no reliable estimate of the total cost of the evacuation of school children can be given as particulars to be furnished by local authorities of the expenditure incurred by them on account of evacuation are still outstanding in a large number of cases. The main item of evacuation expenditure relates to billeting of which the estimated approximate gross cost to date is £7,000,000.