HC Deb 27 June 1940 vol 362 cc577-80
17. Mr. Higgs

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that, after weeks of recruiting in Birmingham for essential Civil Defence services, the applications received are inadequate; and what steps he intends to take to make good this deficiency?

Sir J. Anderson

I am aware that special difficulty is being experienced in Birmingham in recruiting volunteers for the Civil Defence services, and that although a considerable number of recruits have responded to my recent appeal there are still deficiencies in some services. I am keeping a close watch on the position throughout the country, and I shall not hesitate to take such steps as I think necessary to arrest further wastage of personnel from these services. Meanwhile, however, it is essential that the local authority should continue to make every effort to bring home to local residents the possible consequences of failure to man their services adequately.

Mr. Higgs

Is the Minister aware that the recent appeal produced only one-tenth of the necessary recruits, and that the existing A.R.P. services cannot be fully manned?

Mr. Quibell

Is the Minister also aware that great discouragement is felt by those who have volunteered, by reason of the lack of proper A.R.P. equipment?

Sir J. Anderson

No, Sir, I do not agree with that at all. Equipment is available for the authorised establishment—

Mr. Quibell

Oh no.

Sir J. Anderson

—but it has not been issued in respect of reserves in excess of those authorised.

Mr. Quibell

I will give the Minister proof of what I say.

Mr. Charles Brown

Could the right hon. Gentleman send the Lord President of the Council to Birmingham?

Mr. Quibell

And send him to Scunthorpe too. It is a wilful misrepresentation.

20. Mr. Windsor

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware of the drastic reduction in the number of paid air-raid precautions workers in the Hull district; and whether he will take steps to allay public apprehension because of the substitution of volunteers for full-time and skilled personnel?

Sir J. Anderson

I am not aware of any drastic reduction in the number of paid Civil Defence volunteers in Hull or of any cause for public apprehension. I am, however, arranging for local inquiry to be made.

Mr. George Griffiths

Is not the Minister aware that in some localities the drastic cut has been 50 per cent.?

Sir J. Anderson

Yes, Sir, that is certainly so in the case of paid wardens; and it was the general wish of this House, made clear on many occasions, that the strength of that service should be cut down.

32. Mr. Simmonds

asked the Home Secretary whether he is aware that resignations of personnel in the Civil Defence services are seriously affecting their efficiency; and what action he proposes immediately to take?

Sir J. Anderson

I am aware that the loss of personnel due to calling up for military service and other causes is giving rise to concern in some areas. I made a special appeal for volunteers two weeks ago, and I have taken action to prevent further wastage among whole-time members of the A.F.S. and to maintain the strength of this service. I am keeping a close watch on the position in other branches of the Civil Defence organisation.

Mr. Simmonds

Is it not a fact that considerable personnel are resigning for causes other than that they are being called up, and does not my right hon. Friend think the time has arrived to give A.R.P. officials power to refuse to accept resignations?

Sir J. Anderson

Measures are being taken to prevent further wastage, including matters relating to pay and a further extension of the principle of compulsion.

Mr. Shinwell

When the right hon. Gentleman is satisfied that there is inefficiency due to reduction of personnel, or to some other cause, what action does he take?

Sir J. Anderson

Action of the kind which I have indicated.

Mr. Shinwell

Yes, but does that mean that the right hon. Gentleman still persists in voluntary action when it leads to inefficiency?

Sir J. Anderson

The hon. Gentleman cannot have listened to my supplementary answer, in which I said that the action included a further extension of the principle of compulsion.

Mr. Higgs

Why not apply compulsion forthwith?

33. Mr. Simmonds

asked the Home Secretary the current number of vacancies to bring the Civil Defence forces to full strength, and the weekly increase in personnel over the four weeks' period most recently elapsed for which figures are available?

Sir J. Anderson

The position varies widely between different areas, and, as the Civil Defence organisation is essentially a local service, any statement of deficiencies or surpluses in any particular service for the country as a whole would be misleading. The services are, of course, largely dependent upon part-time volunteers, and appeals have been made for additional recruits. There are, however, some deficiencies in the number of whole-time paid members of the services in certain areas, and active steps are being taken locally to increase the strengths according to local needs. Figures are not available centrally, showing the weekly changes in personnel, but, in the first week following my special appeal, about 28,000 persons responded, and volunteers are still coming forward.

Mr. Simmonds

If this service is of any national importance at all, is there not a danger when these vacancies continue in the service, and does not my right hon. Friend think that the spirit of the nation now demands that a measure of compulsion be introduced in areas where the voluntary principle does not succeed? [An HON. MEMBER: "Low wages."]

Sir J. Anderson

Questions of pay are one of the matters concerned, but I would make it clear that the principle of compulsion has been applied already to a certain extent, and that a further extension is being considered. With regard to voluntary and part-time personnel, the principle of compulsion is very difficult in practice.

Mr. Simmonds

Will my right hon. Friend bear in mind that the country expects prompt action to be taken in this matter?

Mr. Gallacher

Is it not a fact that if Birmingham had better representatives, it would get better A.R.P.?

Mr. Lipson

Will my right hon. Friend give an undertaking that, in any area where the A.R.P. service is not up to the strength required, he will apply the principle of compulsion?

Sir J. Anderson

I cannot give an undertaking of that character, and I suggest that my hon. Friend read my answer.