§ Sir Annesley SomervilleWith very great reluctance I ask your leave, Mr. Speaker, to make a brief personal statement. Two nights ago I had the privilege of speaking in this House on the Old Age and Widows' Pensions Bill, and last night the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood) quoted two passages from that speech. The first passage was this:
The means test was initiated by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood) when he was Minister of Health."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 20th February, 1940;col. 1273, Vol. 357.]1537 Later on he said with regard to that:I have said in this House before that the means test was established in this country by the 43rd of Elizabeth, passed in the year 1601, and I take my share of responsibility for that."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st February, 1940; col.1479, Vol. 357.]The word "initiated" may be incorrect and I willingly withdraw it and express regret to the right hon. Gentleman for seeming to deprive him of the privilege of his partnership with Queen Elizabeth, but I do not express regret for the second quotation and for the remark which he made with regard to it. The circular—I have it here—was issued by the right hon. Gentleman when he was Minister of Health on 3rd January, 1930. I said with regard to it:The circular lays down the means test most unmistakably for the guidance of local authorities."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 20th February, 1940; col. 1273, Vol. 357.]The passage in the circular on which I relied was this:In assessing the amount of relief to be afforded the general principle is that income and means from every source available to the household must be taken into account.
§ Mr. WoodburnI wish to raise a point of Order.
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member is entitled to make a personal explanation.
§ Mr. Garro JonesAre there not very definite limitations which govern the construction of a personal statement? If the hon. Member takes advantage of a personal statement to embark upon a subject which is very obscure and which has been one of controversy for many years, is he not exceeding his rights in making that statement?
§ Mr. SpeakerIf I thought he was I should have called him to order.
§ Mr. Garro JonesMay I respectfully submit that the question as to whether or not that circular to which the hon. Member is referring laid down anew any principle of the administration of the means test, or merely recited the law as it stands at present, is the sole subject-matter of the controversy with regard to my right hon. Friend?
§ Mr. SpeakerIf the hon. Member will have patience to listen to the hon. Member's statement he will see what there is in it.
§ Sir A. SomervilleOn that quotation the right hon. Gentleman made the remark: 1538
That statement is a shameless untruth."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 21st February, 1940; col. 1479, Vol. 357.]It is not. It is the truth.
§ Mr. GreenwoodWhen I first learned of the hon. Member's intention of raising a point of personal explanation I thought that he intended to withdraw the unwarrantable statement that he made in the House on Tuesday. Last night I made a statement which was not challenged in any quarter of the House. It was not challenged by my successor at the Ministry of Health, and the statement clearly remains. I have nothing to withdraw, and I have nothing to apologise for. I still think it is the duty of the hon. Gentleman to withdraw statements which he cannot prove and of which no denunciation has been made by any responsible person sitting on the opposite side of the House. If, however, the hon. Member for Windsor (Sir A. Somerville) does not like the term "shameless untruth, "then I am quite willing to substitute the classical term invented by the First Lord of the Admiralty and call it "a terminological inexactitude."