BEER (CUSTOMS). (Hansard, 23 April 1940)

§ Sir H. Williams
This Resolution deals with the new tax on beer, and I am not anxious to make a speech on that new tax, because unfortunately I think it is necessary. I rise to speak on this Resolution purely for the purpose of illustrating the mess we have got into with regard to procedure. Each one of these Resolutions will now be the subject of debate, and as each Resolution is put, although we shall not be able to make a speech on the Budget as a whole, it will be in order to make a speech on the subject matter of the Resolution, and I know of no power of the Chair, except a Closure Motion, to deprive a private Member of that right. I think we are in a most unfortunate situation. The Chairman of Ways and Means, after consultation through the usual channels announced a certain procedure, but I think many of us did not at the time appreciate the significance of it. I do not think we realised that the Debate would be interrupted for about an hour while the Chairman went through the long and boring task of reading the Resolutions—it has to be done some time during the evening—and, the Debate initiated by the Chancellor and the right 99 hon. Gentlemen who spoke for the two Oppositions having come to an end, that we should go elsewhere, presumably, while the Resolutions were being read. The procedure is an extraordinary one; we are in a mess, and cannot get out of it.

§ The Chairman
I think that I ought to say a few words on the subject in reply to what the hon. Member has said. As he said, these Resolutions have to be read at some time or another. It is quite immaterial to me, or to whoever is in the Chair, when they are read, and the only intention was to meet the convenience of the Committee. This matter was discussed to some extent a year ago as well as last September. The result was that the arrangement which was then made received the general assent of the Committee last September. I took it that I had the general assent of the Committee in the same way to-day after I had put the matter to the Committee. I venture to suggest that the hon. Member should have realised that that was the time for him to make a protest if he desired to do so. As regards the general effect of this form of procedure, the hon. Member or any other hon. Member can make his speech on any one of these Resolutions after all the Resolutions have been passed. As the Resolutions are being put, hon. Members may speak only on the one Resolution which at the time is before the Committee. Therefore, it is obvious that hon. Members will get much more freedom to say whatever they want to say on the Budget, without getting into difficulties with the Chair, by waiting till all the Resolutions have been passed. The matter is entirely in the hands of the Committee, and if any hon. Member wishes to speak on any of the Resolutions, of course he can do so.

§ Mr. Lipson (Cheltenham)
As you have said, Sir Dennis, that you are anxious to consult the Committee as to the convenience of this form of procedure, may I say a few words on the matter? You reminded us that last year the Committee took a certain view, and that you assumed that this year the Committee would take the same view. A protest was made by the hon. Member for Leigh (Mr. Tinker) against this procedure being adopted this 100 year. With all respect, I submit that that protest was not received in such a way as to lead the Committee to think that there was any special point in supporting the protest. Therefore, may I ask you whether you would be willing now to find out whether it is the wish of the Committee to adopt this procedure, or whether it would prefer to have a general Debate on the Budget now and to have the Resolutions put later, particularly as it has been pointed out that this form of procedure differentiates between two Members of the House and other Members? Perhaps that is a point which was not clear to hon. Members last year.

§ The Chairman
Perhaps it would clear up the matter if I pointed out that even up to the moment this short discussion has, in my opinion, been out of order. To discuss procedure, it would be necessary to move to report Progress. I have explained the position. It has been customary, since long before I came into the House, for all but one of these Resolutions to be put and passed formally, and it was known that hon. Members were not thereby debarred from, or limited in, making speeches as long as the last Resolution was kept open.

For every 36 gallons, where the worts thereof were, before fermentation, of a specific gravity of 1,027 degrees or less—	£	s.	d.
In the case of beer being an Empire product	3	5	5
In the case of beer not being an Empire product	4	5	5
For every 36 gallons, where the worts thereof were, before fermentation, of a specific gravity exceeding 1,027 degrees:
In the case of beer being an product—
For the first 1,027 degrees	3	5	5
For every additional degree in excess of 1,027 degrees	0	2	6
In the case of beer not being an Empire product—
For the first 1,027 degrees	4	5	5
For every additional degree in excess of 1,027 degrees	0	2	6

	£	s.	d.
For every 36 gallons, where the worts thereof were, before fermentation, of a specific gravity of 1,027 degrees or less—
In the case of beer being an Empire product	3	5	2

	£	s.	d.
In the case of beer not being an Empire product	4	5	2
For every 36 gallons, where the worts thereof were, before fermentation, of a specific gravity exceeding 1,027 degrees—
In the case of beer being an Empire product—
For the first 1,027 degrees	3	5	2
For every additional degree in excess of 1,027 degrees	0	2	6
In the case of beer not being an Empire product—
For the first 1,027 degrees	4	5	2
For every additional degree in excess of 1,027 degrees	0	2	6