CLAUSE 20.—(Application to Scotland.) (Hansard, 31 October 1939)

§ The Lord Advocate (Mr. T. M. Cooper)
I beg to move, in page 12, line 14, to leave out "Sub-section (4)"and to insert" Sub-sections (5) and (6)."
I owe the House an apology for moving yet another manuscript Amendment. It is a very harmless one. Its sole purpose is to make Clause 20—the Scottish Clause—correspond with the Amendments to which the House has just given effect with regard to Clause 8. This Amendment, and the two further manuscript Amendments I propose to move are purely drafting Amendments. The following Amendments I propose to move are in page 12, line 15, to leave out "Sub-section" and to insert "Sub-sections" and in page 12, line 28, to leave out "who" and to insert the words which are already on the Order Paper in the Amendment to Clause 8.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
It is quite impossible for me to follow the manuscript Amendment which the Lord Advocate has just put before the House. We ought to have 1825 a copy or something because the point I want to raise here appears to me to be wrong. Before the Lord Advocate can take action against an individual who contravenes the Act or regulations he has, first of all, to obtain the sanction of the President of the Board of Trade. I would like to know whether that is the case.

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Sir Dennis Herbert)
I am afraid that that has nothing to do with the Amendment that has been moved.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
But it is in the Clause. The Clause distinctly states, in page 12, line 21, an opportunity of making representations"—

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
We are not discussing the Clause, and moreover we have not yet got to line 20. We are discussing an Amendment on line 14 to leave out "sub-section (4)"and insert "subsections (5) and (6)."It is purely a drafting Amendment, and is necessary because" sub-sections (5) and (6)"have been put in on an earlier part of the Bill.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
When will it be opportune for me to raise this matter on Clause 20?

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
I am afraid that the hon. Member will not get a chance unless it comes in on the third manuscript Amendment. I do not know sufficiently what point the hon. Member really has in mind. It is just possible that it might come on the third manuscript Amendment of the Lord Advocate which proposes to make an alteration in line 28.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
My point is this. I am rather annoyed at everything I see as far as Scotland is concerned. I do not know why the Lord Advocate should require to obtain the sanction of the President of the Board of Trade before he institutes a prosecution. I have time and again heard the Prime Minister telling us about England, France and Turkey. Scotland is never mentioned. It should be "Britain" instead of "England."

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
The hon. Member, obviously, cannot deal with the point on the Amendment which is now before the House. The probability is that he can do it on the third Amendment, but, unfortunately, the Lord Advocate's Amendment, as he explained it, is not quite as I 1826 have got it on the manuscript, and at present I do not fully understand it; but we must wait till we get to it.

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 12, line 28, to leave out "who" and to insert: and the central price-regulation committee shall make a like report in a case in which they think fit to investigate an alleged contravention themselves and are of opinion, after giving to the alleged offender such an opportunity as aforesaid, that a prosecution ought to be instituted in respect thereof. (5) On receiving any such report as aforesaid the Board of Trade. In order to save time, Mr. Deputy-Speaker, I did not read the Amendment out at length previously but it should read as contained in the manuscript in your hand.

§ Mr. Kirkwood
I want to draw the attention of the British House of Commons to what is in this Clause as it appears to me as a Scotsman. The Lord Advocate, as we Scotsmen who represent the Scottish people in the House of Commons have been led to understand, is in control of and the authority for the law of Scotland. It is news to me and it will be news to Scots all over the world that the Lord Advocate has to consult the President of the Board of Trade. I am not casting any reflection upon the President of the Board of Trade who has to do his job, but I hold that he has no control over Scottish law. I want to know why these words should be inserted in this fashion because this is not the first time that I have noticed Englishmen in control of this House pushing Scottish ideas and ideology on one side. I want here to protest with all the vigour that I possess, and I want to know what the Lord Advocate himself has to say about this matter before I let this Amendment go.

§ The Lord Advocate
I am not sure that the point which has been raised by the hon. Member really arises on the Amendment which I have moved, but I shall, with pleasure, answer him in a few words. 1827 I really think he is doing me an injustice in suggesting that I have allowed the position and privilege of the Lord Advocate to be subordinated even to that of the President of the Board of Trade, because, if the hon. Gentleman will look at Clause 20, on page 12, he will find that the proviso at the foot of that page reserves intact the power of the Lord Advocate to institute a prosecution if he so desires, whether the local committee or the central committee have taken action or not. That proviso is specifically inserted to preserve what the hon. Member rightly describes as the ancient privilege, duty and prerogative of the Lord Advocate to control criminal administration in Scotland. The result is that in that respect the power of the Lord Advocate to act on his own initiative stands intact, and is not dependent upon the request of the President of the Board of Trade, so that the hon. Member may accept my assurance that his fears are groundless.

§ Mr. Kirk wood
With that explanation, I withdraw my objection, only I want to say to this House that I am not going to sit here any longer and listen to the Prime Minister talk about England, Turkey, Russia and other places and not mention Scotland. He should embrace Scotland with England and say "British" or "Britain."

§ Mr. Deputy-Speaker
The hon. Member has had a great advantage on this occasion. The Amendment has been moved in manuscript, and as a result of my not having had time to consider it, the hon. Member has been able to make a point which is completely out of order. He must be satisfied, therefore, and not discuss it further.