§ 14. Mr. Dobbieasked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware of the grave concern of soldiers who have made an extra allowance of 6d- a day to their wives owing to the inadequate amount of the Army allowance and the fact that, while the money is being stopped from the soldier's pay, it is not being paid to the wives; can he explain the delay in the payment; will he take action to hurry up 509 such payments; and, in view of the fact that these men are left with only 6d. per day for themselves and the poverty of their homes, will he take steps to give them free railway travelling when on leave?
§ 38. Mr. Lunnasked the Secretary of State for War when he intends to institute a free railway pass periodically to soldiers in stations a long way from home when on leave in this country?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThere are no cases in which voluntary allotments are stopped from a soldiers pay without being paid to his wife. Every married soldier is permitted to declare a voluntary allotment in addition to the qualifying allotment associated with family allowance, but in a large number of cases the desire of the man to increase his allotment is an afterthought, and the form notifying paymasters that a voluntary allotment is desired does not reach the pay office until after payment of family allowance and the qualifying allotment only has begun. This means that the original book of order forms, which provide only for the drawing of family allowance and qualifying allowance, has to be withdrawn and a new book has to be issued providing for the increase in allotment. But at no time is a soldier's account debited with a voluntary allotment until the Army allowance book for a weekly amount, containing that extra element, has been issued to the Post Office.
As regards leave, I am glad to be able to announce that troops at home will be given free railway warrants for travelling on leave twice a year, including embarkation leave.
§ Mr. DobbieIf I give the Minister particulars in regard to individual cases, will he look into them?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaMost certainly.
§ Mr. MathersDoes the right hon. Gentleman consider that one extra free conveyance represents an adequate concession?
§ Mr. MathersMay I ask whether this represents one extra free conveyance?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThere will be two free leaves for all soldiers in the United Kingdom. There is an embarkation leave which I recently announced, and that will 510 be one of the two leaves; but when the soldier goes to France he is entitled to leave from France. Therefore, he has two free leaves.
§ Mr. LawsonIn the case where a man has travelled from the South of England to the North of England and has made an application for a return of the money, will the decision cover that case?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaDoes the hon. Member mean that it should be retrospective? I have not considered any question of making it retrospective. I have announced this decision as from to-day, but I will consider the question raised by the hon. Member.
§ Mr. DobbieDo I take it that even where a man has not been sent overseas he will be entitled to two leaves in one year with a free warrant?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaYes, Sir, that is what I have said. He may not go to France at all.
§ Mr. Georģe GriffithsDoes this apply to the Marines?
§ 20. Captain Sir William Brassasked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that dissatisfaction exists amongst parents who have a son in the fighting services making a voluntary allotment to support the home because a supplementary allowance is not made to them as was done in the Great War; and what steps he is taking to remedy this grievance?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThe allotment can, if the circumstances warrant, be supplemented by an allowance.
§ Mr. MaxtonWhy not estimate these things on something other than a Poor Law basis?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI do not understand what the hon. Member means by "a Poor Law basis." It is a question of fact. A mother may have several children and other sources of income. It is a question of fact as to whether the man is supporting her at all.
§ Mr. David GrenfellIs it not the case that in the last war allowances were made where there were one or two boys serving? Why should we not do as much in this war as we did in the last?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaIn the last war the procedure was similar, except that the allowances this time are higher. In the last war an alternative allowance of 5s. a week was given to the parents of a soldier. In our system if circumstances warrant it very much more than that can be paid, up to 22s. a week.
§ Mr. HoldsworthIs it not the case that in the last war there was no question of dependants receiving the 5s. a week, whereas in so many cases at present it is a question whether they are getting it at all?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaIt is certainly a question of whether they are getting anything or nothing. It is a question of fact, and if the facts justify it they can get very much more than the 5s.
§ Sir W. BrassWould it not be possible to allow them to have the 5s. in any case, and consider whether any addition can be made?
§ Mr. LawsonIs it not the case that in actual practice, except in the case of a widow, nobody is getting anything at all from a son, that there is great resentment in the country and that a widow is very lucky if she gets anything at all?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI cannot accept that as being the case. The scheme is perfectly plain and it has never been criticised on this ground before. This is the first question that has been addressed to me on the subject. We have made the allowance to a parent dependent on the facts of the case.
§ 21. Sir W. Brassasked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that dissatisfaction exists amongst widowed mothers whose sons are in the fighting forces and who have to go through a means test cross-examination before any dependants allowances are agreed to; and whether he will consider putting the widowed mother on the same footing as the soldier's wife who has a definite allowance?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThe claim to an allowance by a parent is clearly in a different category from that of a wife and children, and is properly subject to inquiry as to the parents' means and the contribution previously made by the soldier.
§ Sir W. BrassDoes the right hon. Gentleman realise that there is great dissatisfaction in the country among the poorest people as a result of this means test examination, and will he not consider giving a definite allowance and afterwards considering whether any addition can be made?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI do not understand what the hon. and gallant Member means by "a means test examination." The allowance is paid as a right if a soldier has children. If he has another kind of dependant he must submit a claim. There is no way of avoiding that.
§ Mr. AttleeIs the right hon. Gentleman aware of the hardship of the rule by which smaller sums contributed by sons to the home if they are under 10s. are disregarded, and that, therefore, the very poorest people are deprived of any assistance?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI do not know what the right hon. Gentleman means by sums being disregarded. If he really has a dependant the claim is substantiated.
§ Mr. AttleeIs it not the case that where a son is earning £1 a week they take four fifths of that and take 7s. for his keep and say that he is contributing 8s. to the home, and that being under 10s. a week nothing is paid?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaIt is a little difficult to follow it put in that form. I do not accept the suggestion that soldiers are badly treated on the whole. The scheme of allowances was laid down and embodied in a White Paper, and I cannot be expected to answer a series of figures such as put by the right hon. Gentleman. Upon the whole, substantial justice has been done.
§ Mr. T. WilliamsIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that there has been no such White Paper published yet, and that under the terms of the regulations it is well nigh impossible for a parent or dependant of an unemployed man who has joined the Army to get any allowance at all?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI think the scheme of allowances was published in a White Paper, but I am open to correction on that point. There was no criticism. If there is a case to be made and hon. 513 Members will specify the case they nave in mind, I shall have an opportunity of looking into it.
§ Mr. WilliamsI beg to give notice that I shall take an early opportunity of raising the question of dependants' allowances.
§ 25. Mr. Lipsonasked the Secretary of State for War whether he is aware that a great deal of hardship is being caused in Cheltenham to the wives of men serving in the Forces because no allowance is paid for a child of 14 years of age, while under a local by-law the child has to remain at school till he is 15 years of age; and will he extend the age to which allowances may be paid to 15 years of age, and make the payments retrospective?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThe regulations have always provided for the issue of family allowance for children within the age limit up to which whole-time school attendance is required by law, including local by-laws, and authority has recently been given for the continuance of allowances for children who remain at school after passing that age.
§ Mr. LipsonIs my right hon. Friend aware that, in point of fact, these mothers are not receiving allowances for children of 14 years of age who are still at school?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaIf they are not, the regulations are not being observed. The hon. Gentleman put me a general question, and I have given him an answer. The allowances are payable not only up to the school-leaving age, but as long as the child remains at school, even after passing that age.
§ Mr. LipsonWill my right hon. Friend tell me what steps parents should take to obtain the allowance to which they are entitled and which they are not getting at present?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaThey should make application in the ordinary way.
Miss WardHave instructions been issued to the appropriate authority? I think that is where the difficulty occurs.
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI do not think any difficulty arises about this. It is a perfectly well-known practice. This is a question about some children in Chelten- 514 ham. I can only assert that the regulations would not justify the withholding of allowances, and every paymaster knows that.
§ 27. Mr. Aneurin Bevanasked the Secretary of State for War whether he will authorise members of local authorities to witness the signature of forms of application for Army dependants' allowances?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI would refer the hon. Member to the answer given to the hon. Member for Colne Valley (Mr. Glenvil Hall) on Tuesday, 3rd October.
§ 33. Lieut.-Commander Tufnellasked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider making compulsory the statutory full allocation by a serving son to a widowed mother who, in peace-time, was wholly dependent on him?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI have no power to compel a soldier to contribute to the support of a widowed mother except as a condition of the issue of an allowance to her from Army funds, where this is admissible.
§ Lieut.-Commander TufnellIn view of the hardship caused to the dependants in these particular cases, could not my right hon. Friend suggest that the welfare officers should make it plain to these men the hardship they are causing through making inadequate allotments?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaIt is an instinct of nature rather than a provision of the law that a man must contribute to the support of his widowed mother when she is in need, but it would be an innovation to make it a compulsory provision. I will willingly hear what the welfare officers may have to say on this subject.
§ 34. Lieut.-Commander Tufnellasked the Secretary of State for War whether he has considered the grant of an allowance to a working housekeeper in the case of a widower called up for service and leaving behind him three or four motherless children to be tended by her; and whether he can state the Government's intentions on this issue?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaAn allowance is already made in such a case. Where the liabilities of the household are such that the normal allowance is found to be in- 515 sufficient, application for a special allowance can be made to the Military Service (Special Allowances) Advisory Committee.