HC Deb 07 November 1939 vol 353 cc13-8
16. Mr. T. Smith

asked the Secretary of State for War the machinery for considering claims for family and dependants' allowances; and whether he will consider revising the membership of the Military Service (Special Allowances) Advisory Committee, in order to provide for a larger proportion of members, including both men and women, with a first-hand knowledge of working-class conditions of living?

28. Mr. Lawson

asked the Secretary of State for War what steps he is taking to see that Army Order 170, which lays down the conditions for parents' allowances where a son is in the Army, is made better known than at present?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I would ask the hon. Members to await the publication of the White Paper, which will cover the machinery for dealing with these questions. I shall be happy to consider the best means of giving the widest publicity to the contents of the Paper.

Mr. T. Smith

When are we likely to have this White Paper, and will it deal with the second part of my question, namely, the suggestion that the advisory committee should include a larger proportion of members with knowledge of working-class conditions?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I think the White Paper will mention the personnel. As the hon. Gentleman is aware, the personnel includes a former Labour Member of Parliament and others with great knowledge of working-class conditions.

Viscountess Astor

I hope that my right hon. Friend will see that there are some women on the committee?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

This is a Ministry of Pensions committee, but its personnel can always be reconsidered. As the hon. Gentleman knows, certain matters are under consideration in connection with the procedure of the allowances, and I will delay publication of the White Paper until they are settled.

Viscountess Astor

May I have an answer to my question? Is it not very important that there should be a woman on a committee dealing with family allowances?

22. Mr. Liddall

asked the Secretary of State for War whether a soldier, separated from his wife, is precluded, under the Regulations for Army Allowances, 1938, Section 224 (c), from receiving married allowance, notwithstanding that he has been making her regular payments under a deed of separation; and, if so, will he take steps forthwith to remove the discrimination against such soldier?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

In such a case the separated wife may be eligible for an allowance as a dependant.

30. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Secretary of State for War whether there is any appeal against the decision of the War Office when application for allowances to dependants is refused?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

If an application for a dependants' allowance is refused, it is because the prescribed conditions are not fulfilled. If there are special circumstances which might warrant exceptional treatment outside the provisions of the normal regulations, there is access to the Military Service (Special Allowances) Advisory Committee.

Mr. G. Griffiths

What is the rule regarding the amount that a parent may get?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

That has all been published with great particularity in a White Paper.

Mr. Griffiths

Is the Minister aware that in the case of parents who had been receiving 44s. a week from their son, the father being in hospital and receiving sick pay, the mother simply gets 5s. a week from his Department; and can they make an appeal against that?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I cannot judge the facts of that particular case, but if all the surrounding circumstances are compatible with what the hon. Gentleman has just said, it would seem that she would get the maximum rate of allowance.

Mr. H. Morrison

Is the Minister aware that a number of tenants living on London municipal housing estates with no rates are unable to pay the rent in cases where the husband is on war service owing to the smallness of these dependant allowances; and could they make an appeal in cases of that kind?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

That is exactly what the tribunal is for.

31. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Secretary of State for War how many applications for dependants' allowances have been received, and how many were rejected since the beginning of the war?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

To 21st October, 39,144 claims had been received, and 10,642 had been rejected.

Mr. Shinwell

Does not the figure of rejected cases justify the claim to some kind of machinery being established?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I do not see that it follows at all. Many people ask in this world as a matter of course, but it does not follow that the claim is a good one.

Mr. Lawson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that during the last war there was a right of appeal to the local pensions committees, who could investigate, and that people had direct access to them; and is he also aware that the bulk of the people do not know why they are refused dependants' allowances?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

We have, in addition to that procedure, this special allowances tribunal, and they may have access to that also, but I am only too ready to listen to any particular suggestions which the hon. Gentleman may have to make.

Mr. Lawson

Is the right hon. Gentleman sure that the special committee is a tribunal of appeal for parents?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

It is not a tribunal of appeal at all. It is a committee to deal with special cases. The other cases are questions of fact. Either a question is eligible or not; it is a question of fact.

32. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Secretary of State for War how many applications for financial assistance have been received by the Military Service (Special Allowances) Committee, and how many have been refused a grant?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Up to 2nd November, inclusive, 3,115 applications had been received, and 1,297 had been rejected.

Mr. Aneurin Bevan

Would not a great many of these difficulties be avoided if each member of the Armed Services were supplied with a small pamphlet setting out all the conditions under which allowances were granted?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

That seems to be a very helpful suggestion. Of course they have been handed the information, but it is surprising how difficult it is to get them to read it sometimes, but I will do everything that I can to get the facts known.

Mr. Bevan

Will the right hon. Gentleman consider that suggestion?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Yes, Sir; I will.

Mr. Shinwell

In view of the large number of cases rejected by this committee, would the right hon. Gentleman consider the setting up of some kind of appeal machinery?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

It is an appeal to get something in addition to the prescribed allowances.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the Minister correct in saying that the Military Service (Special Allowances) Committee is an appeal tribunal? Was it not specially set up to enable applications to be made for special grants?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Yes, Sir; it is for a special kind of allowances over and above, and apart from, the ordinary allowances that are laid down. In that sense it gives a further opportunity to the men to make a claim.

33. Mr. Glenvil Hall

asked the Secretary of State for War whether he will consider the possibility of allowing weekly insurance premiums to be taken into account, in addition to payments made in respect of rent and rates, by applicants for special hardship allowances?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Account is taken of weekly insurance premiums in the same way as of other factors.

57. Mr. Lawson

asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer why the allowances to parents are excluded from the investigation now being made into allowances paid to soldiers' dependants?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Sir John Simon)

Parents of men serving with the Forces come under the scheme of what is known as dependants' allowance, which is distinct from the family allowance for wives and children, and which is governed by quite different considerations. I am not aware that the rates of dependants' allowance have been called in question, but in any case the subject is not strictly related to the review of children's allowances which the Government undertook to conduct.

Mr. Lawson

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that in the Debate which took place reference was made to this subject, and that there is great dissatisfaction in the country in regard to it? The Government will make a great mistake if they do not consider it.

Sir J. Simon

I think the hon. Member is quite right and that he did make a reference to this matter in the Debate. If he can conveniently indicate the nature of the complaint I have no doubt that it will be looked into.

Mr. Lawson

Am I to take it that if it is looked into the committee will investigate these allowances and conditions?

Sir J. Simon

I think I am right in saying that the committee is not in fact covering this point. If the hon. Member will give me or the Secretary of State for War some information on the matter it will be looked into.

Mr. George Hall

Has the inquiry now proceeding in South Wales anything to do with the matter?

Sir J. Simon

I am told that it has nothing to do with it.