HC Deb 25 May 1939 vol 347 cc2504-9
Mr. Attlee

Will the Chancellor of the Exchequer state what will be the business, upon the resumption after the Whitsuntide Recess, and for what purpose he is moving to suspend the Eleven o'Clock Rule to-night?

Sir J. Simon

The business for the first week after the Whitsuntide Recess will be:

Monday, 5th June—Supply (7th Allotted Day), Committee. The Ministry of Labour Vote will be considered.

Tuesday, 6th June—Report and Third Reading of the Unemployment Insurance Bill, and of the Wheat (Amendment) Bill; Second Reading of the Air Ministry, (Heston and Kenley Aerodromes Extension) Bill and Committee stage of the Money Resolution; Committee and Remaining stages of the Public Trustee (General Deposit Fund) Bill, and, if there is time, Report and Third Reading of the Local Government Amendment (Scotland) Bill.

Wednesday, 7th June—Supply (8th Allotted Day), Committee. The Colonial Office Vote will be considered.

Thursday, 8th June—Second Reading of the Ministry of Supply Bill, and Committee stage of the necessary Money Resolution.

Friday, 9th June—Supply (6th Allotted Day—Second part), Committee. The Vote to be considered will be announced later.

On any day, if there is time, other Orders may be taken.

As regards the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule to-night, on which the Leader of the Opposition also put a question, I understand that the Lords Amendments to the Military Training Bill will shortly be received from another place. I am informed that the Amendments are mainly of a drafting character. Two, I believe are little more than drafting in character. One is a new Clause proposed in order to carry out an undertaking given by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for War during the Report stage in this House. Arrangements have been made for the Lords Amendments to be printed and made available in the Vote Office at about Eight o'Clock this evening. From conversations which have taken place through the usual channels it would seem to meet the general convenience of the House if the Amendments were taken tonight. Accordingly, it is proposed to suspend the Eleven o'Clock Rule in order that the Lords Amendments should be taken immediately after the Second Reading of the Finance Bill.

Mr. Shinwell

On the question of the business after the resumption, can the right hon. Gentleman say how soon after the passing of the Military Training Bill the Government will be in a position to present the regulations relating to the hardship committees and to the question of contractual obligations?

Sir J. Simon

I am afraid that I cannot give a date about that at the moment. Perhaps the hon. Gentleman will put the question again.

Mr. Shinwell

Does the right hon. Gentleman appreciate that it is desirable to have those regulations presented to the House at a very early date because of the uneasiness that exists among persons who will be called up and their dependants?

Sir J. Simon

I think an assurance has already been given that they will be presented as soon as possible.

Mr. Benn

Does the Chancellor of the Exchequer realise that the regulations will become operative between employer and conscript as from to-morrow, and that nobody yet knows what the regulations are?

Mr. R. C. Morrison

Would the right hon. Gentleman explain why it is that after an appeal was made to Members of all parties to assist the Government in getting the Civil Defence Bill through its Committee stage because it was urgently required, and after that appeal has been successful, a great deal of work having been got through by the wholehearted co-operation of all parties, the Government now propose to allow another week to pass without dealing with the further stages of the Bill?

Sir J. Simon

I think it is the case that some changes were made, and the Bill has to be revised, reprinted, circulated and considered. I imagine that these are the reasons why it is thought well to take this other business in the first week after we reassemble.

Mr. Maxton

Would it not be possible for the one substantial Amendment which the Lords have made to the Military Training Bill to be made available in other than printed form, for circulation among the parties, at an earlier hour than eight o'clock to-night? Surely it would be possible to have a few duplicated copies made? [HON. MEMBERS: "For whom?"] For circulation among the parties, as is frequently done.

Sir J. Simon

I quite understand the hon. Gentleman's reasons for desiring that, but we do not know as yet quite when we shall get the Bill from the Lords. We will consider whether something of that sort can be done, if there is time.

Mr. Benn

May I ask what really stands in the way of the circulation to the House of the draft regulations under the Military Training Bill? They must exist.

Sir J. Simon

I cannot personally give an explanation, because I do not know, but I am under the impression that the matter was raised with the Minister of Labour.

Miss Wilkinson

May I point out that there are very large numbers of transactions which will be affected when these young men are called up, and that Members of the House are being deluged with inquiries as to what is going to happen to the mass of contracts that have been entered into?

Sir J. Simon

I really do not think the hon. Lady need suspect that it is not appreciated that the regulations are wanted as soon as possible. The Minister of Labour has already said that he is doing it as quickly as he can.

Sir P. Harris

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that some people have actually been dismissed in anticipation of the Bill becoming law? That makes it seriously urgent that the regulations should be published as early as possible, even if only in a preliminary form.

Sir J. Simon

I do not know that it would be wise to publish them in any other than the correct form, but I recognise, and I am sure my right hon. Friend

recognises, that it is the general desire to have the regulations as soon as possible.

Mr. Benn

How would an employer be subject to a regulation which is to become operative to-morrow when the regulation is not in his hands?

Mr. Gallacher

Why do you not do the country a service and resign?

Motion made, and Question put, That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[Sir J. Simon.]

The House divided: Ayes, 223; Noes, 113.

Division No. 153.] AYES. [4.9 p.m.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury) Lyons, A. M.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Duncan, J. A. L. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Edmondson, Major Sir J. MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.
Albery, Sir Irving Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Ellis, Sir G. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Emrys-Evans, P. V. McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Entwistle, Sir C. F. Macnamara, Lieut.-Colonel J. R. J.
Anderson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Sc'h Univ's) Everard, Sir William Lindsay Macquisten, F. A.
Assheton, R. Fildes, Sir H. Maitland, Sir Adam
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Fleming, E. L. Mander, G. le M.
Balniel, Lord Fox, Sir G. W. G Manningham-Buller, Sir M.
Barrie, Sir C. C. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Furness, S. N. Markham, S. F.
Beechman, N. A. Fyfe, D. P. M. Marsden, Commander A.
Bennett, Sir E. N. George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Maxwell, Hon. S. A.
Bernavs, R. H. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)
Boothby, R. J. G. Gluckstein, L. H. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Bossom, A. C. Goldie, N. B. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.)
Boulten, W. W. Grant-Ferris, Flight-Lieutenant R. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)
Brass, Sir W. Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester) Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Gridley, Sir A. B. Moore, Lieut.-Colonel Sir T. C. R.
Broadbridge, Sir G. T. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Moreing, A. C.
Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.) Grigg, Sir E. W. M. Morgan, R. H. (Worcester, Stourbridge)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Grimston, R. V. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)
Browne, A. G. (Belfast, W.) Hambro, A. V Munro, P.
Bull, B. B. Hammersley, S. S. Nall, Sir J.
Bullock, Capt. M. Hannah, I. C. O'Connor, Sir Terence J.
Burton, Col. H. W. Harris, Sir P. A. Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Butcher, H. W. Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. Palmer, G. E. H.
Cartland, J. R. H. Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Patrick, C. M.
Carver, Major W. H. Hapburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Peake, O.
Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) Hepworth, J. Peat, C. U.
Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.) Herbert, Lt.-Col. J. A. (Monmouth) Perkins, W. R. D.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Higgs, W. F. Peters, Dr. S. J.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. Petherick, M.
Channon, H. Horsbrugh, Florence Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Howitt, Dr. A. B. Pilkington, R.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Colman, N. C. D. Hunloke, H. P. Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir Assheton
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Hutchinson, G. C. Radford, E. A.
Conant, Captain R. J. E. James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs) Jennings, R. Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Cox, H. B. Trevor Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Ramsbotham, H.
Cranborne, Viscount Keeling, E. H. Rankin, Sir R.
Craven-Ellis, W. Kellett, Major E. O. Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)
Crooke, Sir J. Smedley Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Rayner, Major R. H.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Cross, R. H. Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)
Cruddas, Col. B. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Culverwell, C. T. Lancaster, Captain C. G. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Davies, C. (Montgomery) Leighton, Major B. E. P. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Davison, Sir W. H. Levy, T. Ropner, Colonel L.
De Chair, S. S. Lewis, O. Rosbotham, Sir T.
Da la Bère, R. Lindsay, K. M. Rowlands, G.
Denman, Hon. R. D. Lipson, D. L. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.
Denville, Alfred Little, J. Russell, Sir Alexander
Doland, G. F. Lloyd, G. W. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Donner, P. W. Loftus, P. C. Salmon, Sir I.
Samuel, M. R. A. Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J. Wakefield, W. W.
Sandeman, Sir N. S. Spears, Brigadier-General E. L. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Sandys, E. D. Spens, W. P. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Schuster, Sir G. E. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd) Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Scott, Lord William Stourton, Major Hon. J. J. Wells, Sir Sydney
Seely, Sir H. M. Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h) Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Selley, H. R. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Shakespeare, G. H. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Shepperson, Sir E. W. Sutcliffe, H. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. Tate, Mavis C. Wise, A. R.
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's) Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) York, C.
Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.) Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) Thomas, J. P. L.
Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen) Thomson, Sir J. D. W. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Smithers, Sir W. Thorneycroft, G. E. P. Captain Waterhouse and Captain Dugdale.
Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.
Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) Touche, G. C.
Adams, D. (Consett) Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Poole, C. C.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Price, M. P.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Ridley, G.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Sanders, W. S.
Banfield, J. W. Hardie, Agnes Sexton. T. M.
Barnes. A. J. Hayday, A. Shinwell, E.
Bellenger, F. J. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Silkin, L.
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Simpson, F. B.
Benson G. Hicks, E. G. Sloan, A.
Broad, F. A. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Hopkin, D. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Buchanan, G. Jagger, J. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Burke, W. A. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Smith, T. (Normanton)
Cape, T. John, W. Sorensen, R. W.
Cluse, W. S. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Cocks, F. S. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Collindridge, F. Kirby, B. V. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Cove, W. G. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Thurtle, E.
Daggar, G. Lawson, J. J. Tinker, J. J.
Dalton, H. Lee, F. Tomlinson, G
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Leonard, W. Viant, S. P
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leslie, J. R. Walkden, A. G.
Day, H. Logan, D. G. Walker, J.
Dobbie, W. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Watkins, F. C.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) McEntee, V. La T. Watson, W. McL.
Ede, J. C. McGhee, H. G. Westwood, J.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) McGovern, J. White, H. Graham
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Maxton, J. Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Milner, Major J. Wilkinson, Ellen
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Montague, F. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Frankel, D. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Gallacher, W. Naylor, T. E. Wilmot, J.
Gardner, B. W. Noel-Baker, P. J. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Garro Jones, G. M. Paling, W. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Parker, J.
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Parkinson, J. A. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Grenfell, D. R. Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. Mr. Mathers and Mr. Adamson.