HC Deb 23 May 1939 vol 347 cc2198-201

8.2 p.m.

Sir J. Anderson

On this Clause, I am prepared to accept the first two Amendments in the name of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Ashford (Mr. Spens). Then comes an Amendment in my name, which is little more than formal; and after that I am prepared to accept the Amendments in the name of my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Ashford down to that relating to line 23. That is as far as I can go at the moment.

8.3 p.m.

Mr. Spens

I beg to move, in page 13, to leave out lines 16 to 29.

Mr. Attlee

Could the hon. and learned Gentleman indicate whether any of these Amendments are of substance, or whether they are all more or less drafting?

Mr. Spens

This Amendment and the next Amendment are of substance, undoubtedly. They substitute for an obligation at present in the Bill that the landlord should pay a lump sum for compensation in respect of impairment of the value of premises an obligation on the tenant to pay a smaller sum in rent.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendments made:

In page 13, line 33, at the end, insert: (2) Where the usefulness of any part of a commercial building is impaired by reason of the execution therein of any works by virtue of this Part of this Act by the owner of the building, then, unless it is otherwise agreed in connection with, or after, the provision of the shelter, the rent payable under every lease derived from the estate or interest of the owner, being a lease in existence at the date of the completion of the works and comprising the part of the building the usefulness of which is so impaired, shall be decreased to the extent and for the period specified in the subsequent provisions of this Section. (3) The said decrease shall be at an annual rate equal to the diminution of the annual value of the part of the building ascribable to the impairment, ascertained as at the date of the completion of the works."—[Mr. Spens.]

In line 41, after "interest," insert: (being a lease in existence at the date of the completion of the works)."—[Sir J. Anderson.]

In page 14, line 5, after "payable," insert "by any person."

In line 10, after "of," insert: the total of the two following amounts, that is to say— (a).

In line 11, at the end, insert: (b) any diminution of the annual value of any part of the building ascribable to an impairment of the usefulness thereof by reason of the execution of the works ascertained as at the date of the completion of the works.

In line 14, leave out "expenses," and insert "total."

In line 18, at the end, insert: (4) The said increase shall operate in relation to a lease notwithstanding that the rent payable thereunder is decreased under the provisions of Sub-section (2) of this Section, and any such increase and any such decrease shall be set off against each other accordingly.

In line 19, leave out "the said increase," and insert "any such increase or decrease as aforesaid."

In line 23, after "increase," insert "or decrease."—[Mr. Spens.]

Mr. Spens

On a point of Order. If you are not calling my Amendment in respect of line 28, will it be possible for me to move the Amendment in the name of my hon. Friend the Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams), which raises, in a different form, the same point?

The Chairman

Yes.

8.7 p.m.

Mr. Spens

I beg to move, in page 14, line 28, at the end, to insert: (5) The Rating and Valuation (Air-Raid Works) Act, 1938, shall be read and have effect as if, in addition to the matters referred to in Section one of that Act (which relates to relief of air-raid protection works from rates) that Section provided that in ascertaining under the principal Act (as defined in Sub-section (4) of that Section) the value for rating purposes of a hereditament no regard shall be had to the said increase or to such portion of the rent as is attributable to expenses as defined in Sub-section (5) of this Section or to any part of such expenses. I move this Amendment because the additional rents which the tenants have to pay under a scheme are, in fact, a method of paying back money which the owners have had to pay for the erection of a shelter. The question is whether, in those circumstances, proper allowance ought not to be made for the repayment of capital for rating purposes, and so on.

8.8 p.m.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Health (Mr. Bernays)

I fully appreciate what my hon. and learned Friend has in mind, and I hope he will be satisfied with my assurance that the Government are prepared to accept what we understand is the object of the Amendment. But, as at present advised, we are not satisfied that the Amendment is necessary in order to achieve that objective. We are advised that the point is already covered by the Rating and Valuation (Air-Raid Works) Act, 1938. But my right hon. Friend will certainly examine the point further, and consult with the Movers of the Amendment; and if any specific provision is necessary, he will move a suitable Amendment on the Report stage. I hope that, on that assurance, my hon. and learned Friend will not find it necessary to press the Amendment.

Mr. Spens

Having regard to that assurance—though as to whether the point is covered by the Air-Raid Works Act is another question—I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr. Fleming

On a point of Order. There is an Amendment standing in my name. Do you not intend to call that?

The Chairman

No; it is not selected.

Mr. Spens

I beg to move, in page 15, line 27, at the end, to add: (9) Sub-sections (2), (3), (4), (7) and (8) of this Section shall apply in relation to any sums for which the owner of a commercial building becomes liable to a local authority (for the purposes of Part II of this Act) under an agreement for the provision of a public air-raid shelter for the use, in whole or in part, of persons working or living in the building, as if—

  1. (a) the sums were expenses reasonably incurred in providing in pursuance of a notice duly served by the owner under the preceding provisions of this Part of the Act (not being a notice cancelled on appeal) shelter of the type specified therein; and
  2. (b) the date of the conclusion of the agreement were the date of the completion of the works."

8.12 p.m.

Sir J. Anderson

This is the first of a series of Amendments, in the name of the same hon. Members, consequential on an Amendment already accepted on Clause 2, the purpose of which was to make it possible for a factory occupier or the owner of a commercial building who could not himself provide shelter on the premises under his own control to enter into an arrangement with the local authority, on a purely voluntary basis so far as the local authority was concerned, by which the local authority could, on agreed terms, provide shelter on his behalf.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 16 ordered to stand part of the Bill.