§ 10.30 p.m.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I beg to move, in page 3, line 17, after "dominions," to insert "outside Great Britain."
This provision refers to a person employed "in the service of the Government of a part of His Majesty's dominions" and I move to insert the words "outside Great Britain," in order to make the provision completely clear.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I beg to move, in page 3, line 21, to leave out "the United Kingdom," and to insert "Great Britain."
This Amendment is consequential upon one which was carried earlier this afternoon.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I beg to move, in page 3, line 29, to leave out paragraph (c).
616 The point which is dealt with in paragraph (c) is covered by paragraphs (b) and (d) and I therefore move to omit it.
§ 10.33 p.m.
§ Mr. Gallacher
if as a result of drafting the Bill with such great speed a mistake like this can be made, is it not possible that more serious mistakes will be made in the Bill if it is rushed through Committee with such speed and without opportunity for adequate discussion. In view of the fact that the Bill allows for the postponement of the obligations of those called up under it, until suitable date, will the Minister not recommend the postponement of the closure on these Clauses until a more suitable date?
§ Sir I. Albery
May I point out that a great many Members of the Committee 617 did not hear the right hon. Gentleman's explanation of this Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ 10.34 p.m.
§ Mr. Alexander
I beg to move, in page 3, line 33, to leave out from "the," to "been," in line 34, and to insert "passing of this Act."
As the Bill is drafted, the operative date will be 27th April and it will therefore work in a retrospective sense. We submit that it is unreasonable in connection with the introduction of such an important principle as compulsory service, that a retrospective date should be fixed and that we should seek to conscript young men, as from a date on which there was no law in existence to conscript them, especially when we are dealing with a section of our male population who have no votes. We have been very considerably surprised, even under the present Government, at what they have allowed to take place in the last few weeks in connection with this new Measure. Wide dissatisfaction has been expressed all over the country at the action which was taken as soon as the rumour was allowed to escape that the Government intended to adopt compulsory military service, when a wireless message was broadcast throughout the land telling young men that unless they enlisted in particular forces before the night of 26th April, up till midnight, I think—it was all carefully stated to the hour and the minute—they would be bound to be treated as conscripts.
I think we are entitled to ask, on behalf of my hon. Friends on these benches, under what authority that was done and what was the Act of Parliament under which they did it. They had no statutory authority with regard to compulsory service. Who authorised it? Was it by Order in Council, and, if so, when was it issued? It seems to me that this action was completely outside the law, and really what we are being asked to do in passing this Amendment is to whitewash a completely unconstitutional and illegitimate action by the Executive—and this in face of the repeated pledges, not only to this House, but directly to the electorate. I should like to draw attention to one particular announcement by the 618 Prime Minister himself, direct to the electorate, in respect to national service. This is a verbatim report, in the London "Times" of 24th January, of the broadcast made by the Prime Minister over the wireless on the night of 23rd January from Downing Street, and I take this one passage from that speech:One last point I want to emphasise. Ours is a voluntary scheme. Our call is for voluntary effort, and for voluntary effort alone. There are some who sincerely believe that a compulsory scheme would be more effective, but compulsion is not in accordance with the democratic system under which we live or consistent with the traditions of freedom which we have always striven to maintain.That is 23rd January—the Prime Minister stating, in his general broadcast to all the electors in the country that compulsion is inconsistent with democracy, is inconsistent "with the traditions of freedom which we have always striven to maintain;" and then, 12 weeks from that, the Executive issuing the unauthorised broadcast statement to the whole of the young men in the country that unless they enlist voluntarily by a certain date, they will be conscripts. We are being asked to-night to whitewash that unauthorised, unconstitutional action of the Executive, and I claim that we ought to have the support of all sections in this House, of whatever party, against this action. Certainly whoever votes against this Amendment tonight ought to be ready to explain to the young men in his constituency—[An HON. MEMBER: "We are!"]—how it is that they were to be treated as conscripts from 27th April when there was no law in the land to make them such. There is not at this moment, and there will not be until the Royal Assent is given to the Bill and it becomes an Act of Parliament. We are, therefore, perfectly entitled to submit that not one of these young men can be regarded as liable to compulsory military service in the terms of this Bill until it has passed through all the phases of its Parliamentary procedure and received the Royal Assent.
§ 10.41 p.m.
§ Mr. Mander
I should like to support the Amendment because we are faced to-night with really a demand for an act of indemnity for the Government having performed an entirely unconstitutional and illegal act. It is, I suppose, on a par, although the circumstances were 619 more excuseable, with the loan to Czechoslovakia and other things of that kind. At the same time, the proceedings in which we are engaged to-night are quite farcical, for no opportunity is being given for Parliament to function in the ordinary way, and it is difficult for us to give proper attention to the questions before us. I want to put a specific point to the Secretary of State. I find in my constituency that certain young persons who will be affected by this Bill were actually engaged on the date in question upon examinations which made it impossible for them to enlist or to take notice of the various instructions that were given to them on the wireless. I have no doubt there are other cases of that kind where people could not go and enlist although they would have been glad to do so had they had the opportunity. I should like to know how cases of that kind are to be dealt with, because there is clearly a grievance that ought to be met. It is a minor point but an important one and is quite apart from the constitutional point which has been put by the right hon. Gentleman.
§ 10.43 p.m.
§ Mr. Turton
The position under this Sub-section is different in London from that in the more distant areas of the country. The Prime Minister after Questions made the announcement that compulsory military training, which I welcomed was to be introduced, and the young men were given an opportunity until midnight to join the Territorials. In London they had that opportunity, but in my part of the country and in the more remote parts of Yorkshire they had no opportunity at all. This is a matter to which the Government might give some consideration. I cannot see that the country would lose by having an increased number of young men being given the opportunity of joining the Territorials. I understand that among those who are covered by this Bill are some who are in the schedule of reserved occupations and were not permitted by that schedule to enlist in the Territorials. Therefore, they come within the provisions of the Bill without having had any other opportunity of showing their willingness to serve their country.
I want to go from that to another question which I would lhave liked to raise 620 on another Amendment but which, under the system in which we are working, I was precluded from raising, that is, the question of agriculture. The men engaged in agriculture are no whit less ready to serve their country in time of war than those in any other industry, but a great number of them are working on the system described as family farming and if they gave up their farms for six months and became militiamen they would find that their farms could not carry on at all. It would be possible for those men, by joining the Territorials, to ensure that in time of war they fought and, if necessary, died for their country; but if in time of peace they are to do this militia training it will be quite impossible for the country to get the food production which we desire and which the Minister of Agriculture is pressing for. Only last week we were told that before the 30th September a great amount of land should be ploughed up and in many parts of Yorkshire where there are family farms the farmers are saying, "How can we plough it up if our young men—
§ Mr. Turton
Perhaps I have been occupying myself a little too much with the agricultural question, which I have not been able to raise hitherto. I would point out to the Government that it would be of advantage if either all these young men or, if necessary, those who are in reserved occupations or on work of national importance, could have the opportunity, until this Bill is passed, of enlisting in the Territorials. They could in that way serve their country while at the same time not being prevented from carrying on the work in which they are engaged.
§ 10.47 p.m.
§ Mr. Ridley
In the opening part of his speech the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) made a very pertinent point, and I should like to call the attention of the Committee to what may be called the Time-table of this matter. The Prime Minister made his first statement upon this subject in answer to a private notice question by my right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition on 26th April. It was at the end of Questions and, I suppose, it would be about 4 o'clock, so that at the maximum there were only the eight hours between 621 4 o'clock and midnight for information about the conscription intentions of the Government to become known. I have re-read carefully the statement then made by the Prime Minister and there is no reference in it to the provision which it is now sought to embody in the Bill and which seeks to authorise the entirely unauthorised steps which were taken by somebody between the Prime Minister's statement at 4 o'clock and later in the evening. It is very pertinent to ask the Committee to consider the serious disabilities, disadvantages and unfairnesses which a very large number of people must necessarily have suffered that evening. Not everybody possesses a wireless set or is in a position to listen, or was listening, to the 6 o'clock news.
§ Mr. Ridley
First of all they might not be listening and then the information would not be available to them; or it might happen that someone who was listening was otherwise engaged that evening or was far from a recruiting office. In some centres some of them could immediately rush to a recruiting office whereas it would be impossible for others to get there, no matter how hard they might try. A variety of reasons might prevent them—illness, or their being engaged on night duty. I looked at the "Times" for 22nd April this afternoon in the Library. Curiously enough, the "Times" contains no reference at all to the broadcast message the night before, but it does contain from the "Times" correspondent—not the "Times" Military Correspondent, whom it has become a little dangerous to quote in this House nowadays—but the "Times" Parliamentary Correspondent, who said:It is thought that men between 20 and 21 at the passing of the Bill who are already-serving in the Territorial Army will not be made liable for the period of compulsory training.It was, therefore, obviously in the minds of responsible newspaper correspondents in this House that night that the Government would not do anything so unfair as, by retrospective legislation, to conscript men in four or five days' time who did not enlist. I beg that the Government will see how unfair this arrangement must necessarily be to a large number of people situated in remote places, and fairness can 622 only be recovered by the acceptance of the Amendment.
§ 10.51 p.m.
§ Sir Arnold Wilson
I trust that the Government will stick to their guns, or else make it eight hours earlier. These men, after all, had from 24th January, the date of the Prime Minister's appeal for voluntary service, in which to enlist. They had, therefore, plenty of time to enlist in the Territorial Army.
§ 10.52 p.m.
I would like to associate myself with the appeal made by the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton). I have had certain representations from the North of England on identical lines. I do not think the point is when the appeal was made for voluntary service; it is a question of the people in the South of England having a certain advantage over people in far distant parts of the country. I understand certain notices appeared in the papers in the South of England which were not in the papers in the North of England, and I do think, in view of the country's magnificent response to this proposal of the Government, that where there is any unfairness or any grievance we should, if we can, try to remedy it. I hope, therefore, that my right hon. Friend will find a way out of the difficulty, though I appreciate that it may not be very easy to do so.
§ 10.53 p.m.
§ Mr. Attlee
There is one other point. It is the fact that it is reported very widely that numbers of men who went to join up were unable to join up, not because they came late, or did not listen, or were indifferent, but because the machinery broke down. There were no forms, and they were sent away because they simply could not be taken on. I have not the same indifference to injustice as the hon. Member for Hitchin (Sir A. Wilson), and I do not think we ought to draw a line between one lot of people and another. People who were engaged in serving the country, and who were not sitting over the fire, listening to the wireless, were put in a difficult position, and people in distant parts of the country also, and I certainly think this is a case where there should be reconsideration.
§ 10.54 p.m.
§ Sir R. W. Smith
It has already been pointed out that this was very unfair to 623 people in distant parts of the country. But there is also the question of those who had offered to serve their country and whose names had been accepted; they were put in an unfortunate position. They did not know what was going to be in the Bill. I refer particularly to the men of the Royal Naval Volunteer Special Reserve. They had entered into a contract to serve their country, they have been medically examined, and interviewed, and, on being accepted for that Reserve, had said that they would not enlist in any other branch of the Services. These men had no chance of knowing that they would not be covered by the Bill. The statement made on the wireless said that they had to enlist before 12 o'clock. At that time we did not know what was in the Bill and these men could not know whether they were or were not exempt. It is hardly fair that they should be caught up in this manner.
§ 10.56 p.m.
§ Mr. Silverman
I have here a letter which gives one practical case which is, I think, in line with the principles of the Amendment, and it might usefully be put on record. I am going to read it, and shall make no comment upon it but I invite the right hon. Gentleman to make any comment upon it that he thinks fair. I hope that I have the permission of the Committee to do that. The letter says:Following our conversation on the phone last Thursday, here are the points of my grievance as briefly as possible.On 19th April"—
a week before there was any announcement of conscription at all—I handed in my completed application form to the Honourable Artillery Company, and I was definitely told:
- (1) That there were plenty of vacancies.
- (2) That there was no doubt whatever of my getting into the Regiment, providing that I fulfilled the usual personal and medical requirements.
- (3) That I should hear from them during the following week, but that if I did not there would be no need to worry.Obeying their instructions, I waited without hearing any further hews until 4th May, when I received the accompanying note. dated 29th April, and posted 3rd May. The note said:'Dear Sir,I am directed to inform you that the active list of this Regiment is now full and recruiting completely closed.In these circumstances I am to thank you for your application and express regret 624 that it is not possible to offer you a vacancy.I may mention that candidates for the last hundred vacancies have had to be selected from many hundreds of applications.Yours faithfully—'Here follows the signature of the secretary of the regiment. The letter goes on:On their own declaration, the H.A.C. selected the last hundred candidates from 'many hundreds of applications,' and they also admit having posted 500 similar notes to the one which I received. Therefore, in spite of the fact that they gave ample assurance of vacancies they must have known that they could not accept more than one-fifth of the people to whom they gave that assurance. By doing so they have kept many hundreds of volunteers from joining other units of the Territorial Army, and now, those who volunteered a week before the Military Training Bill was introduced are in a position to be conscripted, whilst those who, under threat of compulsion, rushed in at five minutes to midnight on 26th April are to be exempted. The fact that we who volunteered on 19th April had not been sworn in before the Bill was introduced is hardly any fault of ours, since we were willing, but the Army, in spite of its call for recruits, was not ready to accept our oaths. If recruits are really needed so urgently, then it has been a criminal waste of time. Is it fair that we, who willingly offered our services, should now be penalised for not having taken the oath which we were prevented from taking by those who themselves demand it, and who are imposing conscription as a penalty on the. 'unwilling' whilst the 'willing' who joined under last-minute pressure are commended and free?I am ready and willing to do my share by serving a period of years in the Territorials, but it is of vital importance to me that I should not be conscripted for a continuous period of six months—even so I should not complain if there had been no exemption of the later arrivals. Actually for the last 18 months, I have, with Mr. Hemmerde's help and approval, been trying to change my position, and now, if I am to be called away for six months in a few months' time who could be expected even to consider employing me?I don't know whether it is possible to ask a question in the House on this point, but the War Office, from outside observation, seem to have been very evasive. Anyway, I am deeply grateful"—I need not read the last sentence. That does not matter. The writer signs it and gives his name.
Here is an actual case. I make no comment on it except to ask the War Secretary whether the state of affairs which put this man in this position is fair, and whether he ought not to meet the position, thus created?
§ 11.1 p.m.
§ Sir Joseph Nall
The letter which the hon. Member has just read may well be a subject for administrative action as to whether these men have in fact bona fide attempted to join the Territorials or not, but surely it does not strike in any way at the fundamental point under discussion. I should like to inform my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin (Sir A. Wilson) that, if any change is to be made to secure a more fair application of the provision, it can only be done by further ante-dating, and not by postponing, the age. I would make one observation on the letter which has just been read. The hon. Member said, I think, that it was dated 4th May—
§ Mr. Silverman
I do not know to what date the hon. Member refers, but the writer of this letter made his application to join on 19th April, a week before there was any suggestion of conscription.
§ Sir J. Nall
It is rather curious that it is only brought to the attention of the House on 10th May.
§ 11.2 p.m.
§ Mr. Poole
The idea underlying the whole position is not the idea which the hon. Member for Hulme (Sir J. Nall) has just expressed, but the idea that hundreds of thousands of young men were foolish enough to believe that the Government, when they said a thing, really meant it, and now they find themselves in this unfortunate position. The Secretary of State for War dare not accept this Amendment, because he dare not have put on his hands between now and the passing of the Act the number of men who would join the Territorial Army, and with whom he is not in a position to do anything for want of the necessary machinery and equipment. The Amendment would place him in an impossible position. But I think it should go on record that the men have trusted the Government, have trusted the word of Ministers of the Government, foolishly, and, because of that, they find themselves in this position.
§ 11.3 p.m.
§ Lieut.-Commander Agnew
I think that this point calls for some reconsideration by the Secretary of State. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Hitchin 626 (Sir A. Wilson) that, if fairness is desired as between one young man and another who is likely to be called up under the Bill, the right thing to do would be to see that the very limited number of people who got knowledge over the wireless in rather an irregular fashion that they were going to be immune if they joined up before midnight, are not left with an advantage over all the rest of the young members of the public who will be affected by the Bill.
§ Mr. Mathers
May I ask the hon. and gallant Gentleman how he comes to describe this message over the wireless as irregular? Is he not aware that it was circulated on the instructions of the War Office?
§ Lieut.-Commander Agnew
No, I am not aware that it was circulated on instructions from the War Office. I should have thought that if an official announcement was going to be made, it would have been made by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons in the afternoon, so that the evening papers could have given publicity to it and all Members of the House could have known about it and have informed their faraway constituents about it. While it would be contrary to the public interest—which must be paramount—to accept the Amendment, the fairest thing to do would be to bring forward another Amendment at a later date, which would ante-date this by one day more, so that there would be no advantage to be gained by any section.
§ 11.6 p.m.
§ Mr. Gallacher
I had no intention of saying anything in connection with this Amendment, although it had my full support, until I heard the hon. Member for Hitchin (Sir A. Wilson), and then I got, in a flash, an idea of the dreadful fate that might await some of these young lads. I felt it my duty then to make a special appeal to the Minister to give many more of these lads an opportunity of escaping from what is going to be control by some of the older officers of the Regular Army. We have been told continually that some of the older officers of the Regular Army would be used for training these conscripts. When you look around and see some of the older officers of the Regular Army, all you can say is, "God help these conscripts." A 627 man mentioned to me the other day that his son had come of age a few days ago and had joined the Territorials—a certain branch, because of a special interest he had; there is no need to describe that interest. I did not hear the broadcast that has been referred to. I very seldom listen to broadcasts; I have little opportunity, and less desire. Many of these people did not hear it either, and the man I was speaking to thought that because his lad had joined the Territorials—with no intention of dodging anything—that lad was free from compulsory service.
I could have given the right hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) a lot of language to describe this Clause, and the fact that the Government are going to use the Guillotine to justify what has been called by the hon. and gallant Member opposite an irregular statement—an irregular statement which produced a situation of which advantage could be taken by those convenient to the recruiting stations. Go to the Highlands and islands and see what chance they had of getting information; it would be three or four days before they could. It is a scandalous position which has been indicated by the statement that the Minister would be unable to accept the Amendment because he would be unable to cope with the effects. Any Member who votes for the Clause as it is will be voting for the justification of an unconstitutional act, which will give advantages to one as against another. The Prime Minister said that the one thing about this Bill—the fundamental principle in connection with the Bill—was that there could never, at any time, be any question of its fairness as between one and the other. Every Member on the benches opposite applauded that statement. I guarantee that the hon. Member for Hitchin applauded it. But everything had to be fair as between one another. If the Minister is prepared to carry out that pledge of the Prime Minister he must accept this Amendment. If he accepts the Amendment, there will be a rush into the Territorials, because there is less chance in the Territorials of coming under the control of the old have-beens of the Regular Army. There will be a rush into the Territorials and there will be no one left for "Belisha's Militia," 628 and that is what the Secretary of State for War is concerned about.
§ 11.12 p.m.
§ Mr. Anstruther-Gray
I feel that the Committee are making too much of this point. If this scheme is properly worked, these men should not only have a period of training, but also a very healthy and enjoyable six months.
§ Mr. Anstruther-Gray
I am sure from what I have heard of the Regular soldiers who are going to have anything to do with the scheme, that they are going to do their best to make it good fun as well as good training.
§ Mr. Garro Jones
Presumably there has been some restriction placed upon recruiting pending the passage of this Bill, but the Bill applies only to people between the ages of 20 and 21. When the Bill has actually passed can the Minister say exactly where the portcullis has fallen in the recruiting offices, and the precise ages? A considerable number of men are involved according to the way it has dropped.
§ 11.14 p.m.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
The Section of the Bill we are discussing exempts certain classes of persons from liability to do six months' military training and a subsequent period of 3½ pears. Every male British subject between 20 and 21 is liable to those periods of service—the six months followed by 3½ years. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made his announcement on 26th April that every male person would be liable between the ages of 20 and 21 to do the service that I have described.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I am not suggesting it. My right hon. Friend said that a Bill would be introduced particularly for the purpose of giving effect to that announcement, and it is the Bill that we are now discussing.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that irritation is very bad for the health, and he might, at any rate, listen to what I say. The Prime Minister made that statement and said that a Bill would be introduced. This is the Bill. Obviously, after he had made that announcement persons desired to know whether or not if they had done service in the Regular or the Territorial Army they would be exempt. Inquiries were made at the War Office and an answer was given, and it is that answer which I trust will be confirmed by Parliament when this Bill has passed into law, namely, that anyone who had entered one of the Services before that announcement would be exempt, provided he had completed his service. That is what is provided for in this Bill, with this tolerance, in excess of that announcement, that if he had been accepted, although he had not actually entered but subsequently complied with any directions, he would be considered as a person who had enlisted or engaged in a given Service.
The hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Silverman) recited a case which must obviously have appealed to the sympathy of the House—a case which justice requires should be settled upon lines which give effect to the spirit if not the letter of the proposal. Here was a man who before my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister made the announcement had applied for entry into the Honourable Artillery Company, a unit which is notoriously popular and which had at that time, and still has, a very long waiting list. That unit after the announcement was made notified the applicant that they had no vacancy. The War Office, well before this Bill was introduced, had made an attempt to deal with that kind of case and had printed a card which was to be given to the applicant, to certify that he had in fact agreed to serve in the Territorial Army, although there was no vacancy for him at the particular moment. The proviso, and the next Sub-section of this Clause which we are now discussing are intended to cover that case. That is to say, it is intended to cover a person who had been accepted for service but for whom there was no vacancy. It is evident that in a case such as that cited, the procedure I have described, and which was intended to protect persons who even before the introduction of this Bill applied to units such 630 as the Honourable Artillery Company. A case such as was mentioned by the hon. Member as a matter of common equity, is covered by the Sub-section which follows this one, and I can assure the hon. Member that his correspondent will in no way suffer because he did not receive one of these cards. That was our intention. I am very glad the hon. Member has called attention to this particular case.
Most of the arguments which have been adduced to-night are based upon the assumption that some ignominy or stigma Attachés to doing service under this Bill. That is not the case. The State has laid it down that it is advisable that for its protection every person between 20 and 21 should be trained in arms to defend that community. The majority of these men would doubtless have done that as volunteers, but not under a regulated system such as we are now imposing. It is desirable that every person between 20 and 21 should receive military training. There is no stigma attaching to that, no ignomony, and the ordinary person does not want to find a way of escaping from this Bill. If he has done before the announcement was made, or has endeavoured to do some service which is parallel to this he should be exempted, because in any new system a date must be fixed for commencing. Accordingly we say that if such a person as would come under this Bill has served or is serving in the Regular Army a period of training comparable to that provided for in the Bill he shall be exempt, or if that person has been accepted for the Territorial Army he shall also be exempt, provided he complies with any directions given to him so that he shall complete that service. He cannot just enter and then obtain his discharge in a few weeks or months, he must complete the service.
I hope I have explained to the Committee that no injustice has been intended or has been done to anybody. You have to begin on a certain date and as when the Chancellor of the Exchequer announces his taxation you cannot evade it, so when the Prime Minister announced this proposal it operated from that date, subject of course to Parliament endorsing it, as is done in the case of the Finance Act to taxation.
§ Mr. Alexander
If that is so why did not the Prime Minister say so when he made his preliminary announcement? 631 The Secretary of State for War has quoted the precedent of taxation. No taxes operate until the Chancellor of the Exchequer opens his Budget and the House immediately proceeds to pass the Budget Resolutions. The cases are not comparable. The country was never notified of any date.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
As I have said there must be a date for the commencement of any scheme, but for this Sub-section anybody would be liable whether he had entered the Territorial Army or not. What we are doing is to exempt a certain number. We are not dragging a certain number in, but leaving out a certain number of persons who would otherwise be in. That is the purpose of the Clause, and I think it will operate fairly in excluding from it those who have legitimate claims to be excluded, bearing in mind that it is our desire, as I hope it is the desire of the country, that as many persons as possible between these ages should be effectively trained in arms.
§ Mr. Arthur Henderson
The right hon. Gentleman has said that the case mentioned by the hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Silverman) is a case which should be treated under the rule of equity; and that the person would presumably be entitled to the benefit of having applied before the appointed day. Will the right hon. Gentleman explain, to the Committee how he proposes to bring the person in question within the limits of Subsection (2), which applies to a person who has actually been accepted for service in one of His Majesty's reserves or auxiliary forces? The complaint was that he had not been accepted into the H.A.C., and, therefore, that he would not come within the Sub-section.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
The answer to that is quite simple. As I said, we had provided a card, or form, which certified that the man had agreed to serve when he was called up when the vacancy occurred; that is to say, he had been accepted, but could not be admitted. What I should propose to do in the case mentioned would be to ask the Honourable Artillery Company whether the facts as stated in regard to this particular man are correct, and if so, whether they will give this card, which, of course, they will, if the facts are true. In such a case, the man will 632 be deemed to have been accepted under this Clause.
§ Mr. Attlee
I have put a point to the right hon. Gentleman and he has not dealt with it. The fact is that there is no proof, because the system of cards broke down. These people tried to join and the card system broke down, and numbers of people who went out to join were turned away. The right hon. Gentleman cannot get off on the plea that people do not object to being conscripted. The Prime Minister's own statement was a perfectly clear statement of what the position in the country was. There is a feeling that it is better to be a volunteer than a conscript. Therefore, these men who actually volunteered have a right, and I ask the right hon. Gentleman how he is going to deal with that right.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I have dealt with it in spirit. I can only say that if there are any cases in which, as the right hon. Gentleman says, the system of cards broke down, I shall endeavour to cover them. I believe I can cover them by the method I have already described to the Committee, but that I intend to cover them, so that no such grievance shall remain, the right hon. Gentleman may accept. I will do my best to see that all such people are covered in the way I have described. I realise that I have omitted to answer one of the points mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton). It is a fact that there were persons on the Schedule of Reserved Occupations who could not in the past have joined the Territorial Army. Of course, if they are on that Schedule they cannot have been trained, and it is the purpose of this Bill to give everybody the training. Similarly, I recognise the case of a constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Central Aberdeen (Sir R. W. Smith), who belongs to a service in which no training is provided. I think the hon. Member has written to my right hon. Friend the Minister of Labour about that case, which is now being investigated. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the Opposition that if there is any case in which the card system broke down, I shall endeavour to cover it either administratively or, if necessary, by introducing an Amendment on the Report stage.
§ Mr. Attlee
It is very important that we should have this point cleared up. The 633 right hon. Gentleman says that he will deal with such cases administratively. Suppose that he cannot get any evidence. He says that he is going to ask the unit, and if they can give evidence that the man really did join, then it will apply. As a matter of fact, a number of the people were simply turned away and nothing taken from them, because the machinery broke down. Surely, he cannot meet the point in that way, and the only thing is to change the date.
§ Sir Stafford Cripps
Is the right hon. Gentleman really suggesting to the Committee that he is going to ask a responsible member of the Honourable Artillery Company to make a statement which is clearly untrue; that is, that this man was accepted for service before a certain date, when admittedly he was not? Does the right hon. Gentleman intend to try to evade the section of his own Bill by suborning to falsehood some member of the Honourable Artillery Company staff?
§ Major Milner rose—
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I hope the Committee does not think that I do not wish to answer the hon. and learned Gentleman, but one of his own supporters had risen to speak. [HON. MEMBERS: "Oh!"] I do not think I have the reputation of being afraid to answer questions, even when they are put by the hon. and learned Gentleman in his best Old Bailey manner.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I think the suggestion contained in an interruption by one of the hon. Members behind the hon. and learned Gentleman might have been intended for the hon. and learned Member for East Bristol (Sir S. Cripps) himself. He asks me whether I really intended to be guilty of subornation of falsehood. If a question of that kind had been put
§ to any of the hon. Gentlemen opposite, perhaps they would have made an equal noise but from different motives. I do not intend, if I can avoid it, to be guilty of subornation of falsehood. I intend to deal with the matter, as I have said, either within the powers that already exist, if the case is appropriate to such powers, or with such powers as are given under this Bill if they are appropriate or at least prospectively appropriate or else on the Report stage, as I have said, I will introduce an Amendment which will enable me to do that.
§ Major Milner
Is the Committee to understand that anyone who has applied may be given exemption, provided he has applied before the appropriate date? The difficulty arises here from the fact that the Sub-section uses the word "accepted" and the right hon. Gentleman also used the word "accepted." If we are to understand that anyone who has applied before that date may have exemption, the position may be met to some extent. Even though the point made by my right hon. Friend the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) has not been met, it would be a help if the right hon. Gentleman would say that anyone who applied before that date may receive exemption.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
The hardship is not as great as is imagined, because if anybody applied to the Honourable Artillery Company or any of the other units which are known to have very long waiting lists, he must have been aware all along that he could have joined one of the units in which there were vacancies. Nevertheless, I said that in such a case, where a bona fide application was made, indicating the man's intention to enlist, I will try to cover it in one way or another, in one of the alternative ways that I have mentioned.
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 225; Noes, 144.637
|Division No. 110.]||AYES.||[11.36 p.m.|
|Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J||Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)||Beauchamp, Sir B. C.|
|Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)||Anstruther-Gray, W. J.||Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h)|
|Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P G.||Aske, Sir R. W.||Beechman, N. A.|
|Albery, Sir Irving||Baillie, Sir A. W. M.||Bernays, R. H.|
|Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)||Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)||Bird, Sir R. B.|
|Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh)||Balniel, Lord||Bossom, A. C.|
|Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.||Baxter, A. Beverley||Boulton, W. W.|
|Boyce, H. Leslie||Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W.||Petherick, M.|
|Bracken, B.||Hambro, A. V.||Pickthorn, K. W. M.|
|Braithwaite, Major A. N. (Buckrose)||Hannah, I. C.||Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir Asshaton|
|Broadbridge, Sir G. T.||Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)||Radford, E. A.|
|Brocklebank, Sir Edmund||Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.||Raikes, H. V. A. M.|
|Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.)||Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.||Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.|
|Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)||Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-||Ramsden, Sir E.|
|Brown, Brig-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)||Hepworth, J.||Rankin, Sir R.|
|Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.)||Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)||Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)|
|Bull, B. B.||Herbert, Lt.-Col. J. A. (Monmouth)||Reed, A. C. (Exeter)|
|Bullock, Capt. M.||Higgs, W. F.||Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)|
|Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.||Hogg, Hon. Q. McG.||Reid, J. S. C.(Hillhead)|
|Butcher, H. W.||Holmes, J. S.||Reid, W. Allan (Derby)|
|Cartland, J. R. H.||Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.||Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)|
|Carver, Major W. H.||Horsbrugh, Florence||Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)|
|Cary, R. A.||Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)||Rowlands, G.|
|Castlereagh, Viscount||Hulbert, Squadron-Leader N. J.||Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.|
|Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester)||Hunter, T.||Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A|
|Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)||Hutchinson, G. C.||Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)|
|Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)||James, Wing-Commander A. W. H||Salmon, Sir I.|
|Chapman, A. (Rutherglen)||Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)||Salt, E. W.|
|Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead)||Jones, L. (Swansea W.)||Sandys, E. D.|
|Colman, N. C. D.||Keeling, E. H.||Scott, Lord William|
|Colville, Rt. Hon. John||Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)||Selley, H. R.|
|Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs)||Lamb, Sir J. Q.||Shakespeare, G. H.|
|Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)||Lancaster, Captain C. G.||Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)|
|Cox, H. B. Trevor||Latham, Sir P.||Shepperson, Sir E. W.|
|Critchley, A.||Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)||Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.|
|Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page||Leech, Sir J. W.||Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U. B'lf'st)|
|Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C.||Leighton, Major B. E. P.||Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.|
|Crossley, A. C.||Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L.||Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)|
|Crowder, J. F. E.||Levy, T.||Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)|
|Cruddas, Col. B.||Liddall, W. S.||Snadden, W. McN.|
|Culverwell, C. T.||Lindsay, K. M.||Somerset, T.|
|Davidson, Viscountess||Lipson, D. L.||Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald|
|Denman, Hon. R. D.||Little, Sir E. Graham-||Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'ld)|
|Denville, Alfred||Llewellin, Colonel J. J.||Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)|
|Doland, G. F.||Lloyd, G. W.||Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)|
|Donner, P. W.||Loftus, P. C.||Strickland, Captain W. F.|
|Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)||Lyons, A. M.||Stuart, Lord C. Crichton- (N'thw'h)|
|Dugdale, Captain T. L.||Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)||Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)|
|Duggan, H. J.||McCorquodale, M. S.||Tasker, Sir R. I.|
|Duncan, J. A. L.||McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.||Tata, Mavis C.|
|Dunglass, Lord||McKie, J. H.||Thomas, J. P. L.|
|Eastwood, J. F.||Magnay, T||Thomson, Sir J. D. W.|
|Edmondson, Major Sir J.||Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest||Thorneycroft, G. E. P.|
|Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.||Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.||Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.|
|Ellis, Sir G.||Markham, S. F.||Titchfield, Marauess of|
|Elliston, Capt. G. S.||Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.||Touche, G. C.|
|Emrys-Evans, P. V.||Maxwell, Hon. S. A.||Walker-Smith, Sir J.|
|Entwistle, Sir C. F.||Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.||Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan|
|Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)||Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)||Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)|
|Fildes, Sir H.||Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)||Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)|
|Findlay, Sir E.||Moreing, A. C.||Warrender, Sir V.|
|Fleming, E. L.||Morgan, R. H. (Worcester, Stourbridge)||Waterhouse, Captain C.|
|Fremantle, Sir F. E.||Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)||Watt, Lt.-Col. G. S. Harvie|
|Furness, S. N.||Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)||Wells, Sir Sydney|
|Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley)||Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.||Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)|
|Gledhill, G.||Nall, Sir J.||Williams, C. (Torquay)|
|Gluckstein, L. H.||Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.||Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)|
|Goldie, N. B.||Nicholson, G. (Farnham)||Willoughby de Eresby, Lord|
|Gower, Sir R. V.||Nicolson, Hon. H. G.||Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)|
|Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester)||O'Connor, Sir Terence J.||Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.|
|Gridley, Sir A. B.||O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh||Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl|
|Grigg, Sir E. W. M.||Orr-Ewing, I. L.||York, C.|
|Grimston, R. V.||Patrick, C. M.||Young, A. S. L. (Partick)|
|Gritten, W. G. Howard||Peake, O.|
|Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)||Perkins, W. R. D.||TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—|
|Guinness, T. L. E. B.||Peters, Dr. S. J.||Lieut.-Colonel Kerr and Mr. Munro.|
|Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)||Batey, J.||Cove, W. G.|
|Adams, D. (Consett)||Bellenger, F. J.||Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford|
|Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.)||Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.||Daggar, G.|
|Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford)||Broad, F. A.||Dalton, H.|
|Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.)||Bromfield, W.||Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)|
|Ammon, C. G.||Brown, C. (Mansfield)||Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)|
|Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)||Buchanan, G.||Day, H.|
|Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.||Cape, T.||Dobbie, W.|
|Banfield, J. W.||Charleton, H. C.||Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)|
|Barnes, A. J.||Chater, D.||Ede, J. C.|
|Barr, J.||Cocks, F. S.||Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)|
|Bartlett, C. V. O.||Collindridge, F.||Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)|
|Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H.||Lathan, G.||Ritson, J.|
|Foot, D. M.||Lawson, J. J.||Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)|
|Frankel, D.||Leach, W.||Rothschild, J. A. de|
|Gallacher, W.||Leonard, W.||Sexten, T. M.|
|Gardner, B. W||Leslie, J. R.||Shinwell, E.|
|Garro Jones, G. M.||Logan, D. G.||Silkin, L.|
|George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)||Lunn, W.||Silverman, S. S.|
|George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)||Macdonald, G. (Ince)||Simpson, F. B.|
|Graham, D. M. (Hamilton)||McEntee, V. La T.||Sloan, A.|
|Green, W. H. (Deptford)||McGhee, H. G.||Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)|
|Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.||McGovern, J.||Smith, E. (Stoke)|
|Grenfell, D. R.||MacLaren, A.||Smith, T. (Normanton)|
|Griffiths, G. A. (Llanelly)||MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)||Sorensen, R. W.|
|Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)||Mander, G. le M.||Stephen, C.|
|Groves, T. E.||Marshall, F.||Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)|
|Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.)||Maxton, J.||Stokes, R. R.|
|Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)||Milner, Major J.||Summerskill, Dr. Edith|
|Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)||Montague, F.||Thurtle, E.|
|Harris, Sir P. A.||Morgan, J. (York, W.R., Doncaster)||Tinker, J. J.|
|Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)||Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, s.)||Tomlinson, G.|
|Hayday, A.||Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)||Turton, R. H.|
|Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)||Nathan, Colonel H. L.||Viant, S. P.|
|Henderson, J. (Ardwick)||Naylor, T. E.||Walkden, A. G.|
|Henderson, T. (Tradeston)||Noel-Baker, P. J.||Watkins, F. C.|
|Hicks, E. G.||Oliver, G. H.||Watson, W. McL.|
|Hills, A. (Pontefract)||Paling, W.||Welsh, J. C.|
|Hollins, A.||Parker, J.||Westwood, J.|
|Hopkin, D.||Parkinson, J. A.||White, H. Graham|
|Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)||Pearson, A.||Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)|
|Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)||Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.||Wilkinson, Ellen|
|Johnston, Rt. Hon. T.||Poole, C. C.||Williams, T. (Don Valley)|
|Jones, A. C. (Shipley)||Price, M. P.||Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)|
|Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)||Pritt, D. N.||Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)|
|Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.||Quibell, D. J. K.||Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)|
|Kirby, B. V.||Richards, R. (Wrexham)|
|Kirkwood, D.||Ridley, G.||TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—|
|Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.||Riley, B||Mr. Mathers and Mr. Adamson.|
§ 11.44 p.m.
§ Mr. Parker
I beg to move, in page 3, line 37, to leave out from "forces," to the end of line 40.
When the Prime Minister made his statement in favour of conscription he stated that the proposal of the Government was a great democratic Measure intended to treat the sons of rich and poor alike. The son of the duke and the son of the dustman would receive the same amount of money and go through the same period of training. If this is a democratic Measure, as the Government claim, why should not the future officers of the Army and the Air Force undergo this training? If, as an hon. Member opposite said just now, it will be a healthy and enjoyable six months, why should not those who are to go to Sandhurst or Woolwich or Cranbrook also do this six months' training before they start the course in those colleges? It might mean that they would have to postpone for six months their entry into the military college, or it might be arranged that this period of six months' training might count as part of the service they did at college. Such an arrangement could be fixed up by the military advisers of the Government.
638 I see no reason why some people should not do their military training at a little earlier age, say at 18, instead of 20. At the present time most conscripts join the French Army at the age of 18, though many go in at a later age. I have a cousin doing service in the French Army who joined at the age of 27, because he had had exemption till then owing to the training he was going through. In France people are doing their military service at all ages, though the great mass are aged about 18 to 20 when they join. We shall have people of different ages in our own conscript Army, because under an Amendment already passed we shall allow a certain number of people to postpone doing their training for a year or two on account of being apprenticed to a trade or being at a university. Surely there is no reason why some people should not do their training earlier. Personally, I think it would be very much to the advantage of the British Army and the Royal Air Force if the officers of those Services had been in the ranks for at least six months and had done the same military training as everybody else. I ask the Government why they cannot make an arrangement of that kind. If they mean anything at all when they talk about the desirability of having what they call a great democratic Service there 639 should be no exceptions and everybody who is to become an officer in the Army or the Air Force should do this training. I, therefore, hope that the Government will be able to accept the Amendment.
§ 11.48 p.m.
§ Mr. Ritson
I have great pleasure in supporting this Amendment. Over and over again I have heard people say, "If only we could get rid of class hatred what a wonderful new world we should have," but the first principle of this Bill—and it is sticking out of it like a man's toes sticking through his stockings—is class hatred of the very worst type. As my hon. friend the member for Romford (Mr. Parker) has said, this ought to give a splendid opportunity to these young men, highly educated and facing a career, to come in with the new conscripts and start from where the Government intended they should start. Surely there is nothing wrong in that. Our young lads can teach them what real life is. They will teach them fortitude and character and give them a new outlook on life. I will not say more because I want to give the Minister time to say that he will accept the Amendment. When the Minister was in opposition and was looking for a job on the side of the House where he now sits nobody showed greater agility in jumping from here to there. It was the same with the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Both were very alive and active and determined to arrive at their goal. I can assure him that there is nothing better he could do than to accept this Amendment. It would do these young men good. The manners of the working-class boys would be better and they would be higher in stature, mentally and physically. You are building a new structure. By putting in these young men, to whom I have no objection, you will be improving their careers. They might as well begin early. Let them get into touch with the hard-headed men of the North, and these will, in turn, learn to understand the fine mannerisms of the South. This will make them officers in the true sense of the word. We are up against class distinction of the very worst kind. I hope the Minister will accept this Amendment.
§ 11.52 p.m.
§ The Financial Secretary to the War Office (Sir Victor Warrender)
The Com- 640 mittee will, of course, realise that the primary object of the Bill is to provide a short period of training for all men between the ages of 20 and 21. If the Amendment were carried it would exclude from the exempted classes and render liable to military training all boys who go into the military colleges and Sandhurst, Woolwich and elsewhere. In those colleges they will have an intensive period of training before going on to join the various Services with permanent commissions. I do not quarrel with much that the hon. Member said who spoke last, but I can tell the Committee this: if it were not for the fact that this Bill is of a temporary character we should be considering at this moment in the War Office reorganising the courses at Sandhurst and Woolwich so that cadets going to those colleges could do six months' training before they went in.
The Committee realises that that would involve upsetting the present arrangements and that it would take a little time to do. In this case we are applying the same system to those who go to cadet colleges for permanent commissions as we are to those serving in the ranks. It has already been laid down that the man who has enlisted in the Army and has done at least six months' service shall be exempt, but the boy who comes to a military college will, if he stays there for a normal time, do much more than six months' training. If through his own fault or for any reason, he leaves the cadet college before he has completed his training there, or before he has reached the age of 21, he will still remain liable for his six months' training, and would not be exempt by reason of the fact that he had served a short period in the college. We are treating the two categories in exactly the same way. Therefore, I hope that the Committee will agree that this is not an Amendment that we could accept.
§ 11.54 p.m.
§ Mr. Ellis Smith
The speech to which we have just listened provides us with a key to the understanding of the class government by which this country is governed. My tight hon. Friend the Member for Wakefield (Mr. Greenwood) moved an Amendment about two hours ago with 641 the object of postponing the liability of men undergoing a term of apprenticeship. Here is a good example of the class legislation which this National Conservative Government have been pursuing since 1931. This kind of attitude is responsible for placing this country in jeopardy and in its present very serious international position. I hope that the country will be aware of the treatment accorded to our Amendment to give the sons of our people an opportunity of continuing their education and carrying on their technical development to equip them to become the skilled craftsmen which this country will need if it is to hold its own in the international situation; while, on the other hand, the rich sons of rich people are allowed to carry on with their education at the cost of this country.
§ 11.56 p.m.
§ Mr. Amery
I want to ask only one question. Is there anything in the Bill which would preclude the War Office reconsidering the courses at the military colleges in the next few months and enabling the colleges to prescribe that no one can go to the college who has not fulfilled six months' normal Militia training as well as having passed the necessary examinations? I entirely agree that that would be based on the assumption that the Militia system now introduced is to be permanent, but is there anyone here who doubts that that is so?
§ 11.57 p.m.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
There is nothing in the Bill which would prohibit that. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent (Mr. E. Smith) suggested that we are trying to draw some distinction between the rich and the poor.
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
I hope he realises that the Government have now opened Sandhurst and Woolwich to anyone who has the necessary qualifications—
§ Mr. Hore-Belisha
Quite irrespective of means. For the first time it has now been made possible for anyone to receive an education at Sandhurst or Woolwich who has the higher educational school certificate and 100 per cent. of the candidates can receive 100 per cent. of the cost, and a maintenance scheme and pocket money in addition.
§ 11.58 p.m.
§ Major Milner
The Financial Secretary drew an analogy between the man in the Regular Army and the cadet at the military college. Am I not right in saying that the man serving in the ranks of the Regular Army has to serve six months after reaching the age of 17 years in order to be exempt, while the cadet need not have served any time at all, and might even be entered for the college between now and the passing of the Bill? Therefore, it would be possible for anyone to enter his son now at any of the colleges to receive exemption.
§ Sir V. Warrender
I thought I had made that point clear. The mere entry of a boy for a cadet college would not exempt him. Nor, indeed, is he exempt if he goes. He is exempt only if he completes, and passes on to the Army. If, for any reason, he leaves the college, either through his own fault or not, and is below the age of 21, he still remains liable for compulsory service.
§ Major Milner
Is it not true that as a cadet can be entered now and may undergo his training as from to-morrow he may be exempt, because exemption is operative in this case only from the passing of the Bill?
§ Question put, "That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the Clause."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 237; Noes, 133.645
|Division No. 111.]||AYES.||[12.1 a.m.|
|Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.||Baillie, Sir A. W. M.||Bracken, B.|
|Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)||Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)||Braithwaite, Major A. N. (Buckrose)|
|Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.||Balniel, Lord||Brass, Sir W.|
|Albery, Sir Irving||Baxter, A. Beverley||Briscoe, Capt. R. G.|
|Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)||Beauchamp, Sir B. C.||Broadbridge, Sir G. T.|
|Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh)||Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm' h)||Brocklebank, Sir Edmund|
|Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.||Beechman, N. A.||Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.)|
|Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)||Bernays, R. H.||Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)|
|Anstruther-Gray, W. J.||Bird, Sir R. B.||Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)|
|Apsley, Lord||Bossom, A. C.||Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.)|
|Aske, Sir R. W.||Boulton, W. W.||Bull, B. B.|
|Assheton, R.||Boyce, H. Leslie||Bullock, Capt. M.|
|Burghley, Lord||Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.||Pickthorn, K. W. M|
|Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.||Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.||Radford, E. A.|
|Butcher, H. W.||Hepburn, P. G. T. Bushan-||Raikes, H. V. A. M.|
|Cartland, J. R. H.||Hepworth, J.||Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.|
|Carver, Major W. H.||Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.)||Rankin, Sir R.|
|Cary, R. A.||Herbert, Lt.-Col. J. A. (Monmouth)||Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)|
|Castlereagh, Viscount||Higgs, W. F.||Reed, A. C. (Exeter)|
|Gayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester)||Hogg, Hon. Q. McG.||Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)|
|Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)||Holmes, J. S.||Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead)|
|Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)||Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.||Reid, W. Allan (Derby)|
|Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)||Horsbrugh, Florence||Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)|
|Chapman, A- (Rutherglen)||Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)||Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)|
|Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead)||Hulbert, Squadron-Leader N. J.||Rowlands, G.|
|Colman, N. C. D.||Hunter, T.||Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.|
|Colville, Rt. Hon. John||Hutchinson, G. C.||Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.|
|Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs)||James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.||Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)|
|Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. HI. (E'nburgh, W.)||Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)||Salmon, Sir I.|
|Cox, H. B. Trevor||Jones, L. (Swansea W.)||Salt, E. W.|
|Cranborne, Viscount||Keeling, E. H.||Sandys, E. D.|
|Critchley, A.||Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)||Scott, Lord William|
|Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page||Lamb, Sir J. Q.||Selley, H. R.|
|Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C.||Lancaster, Captain C. G.||Shakespeare, G. H.|
|Crossley, A. C.||Latham, Sir P.||Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)|
|Crowder, J F. E.||Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)||Shepperson, Sir E. W.|
|Cruddas, Col. B.||Leech, Sir J. W.||Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.|
|Culverwell, C. T.||Leighton, Major B. E. P.||Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U. B'lf'st)|
|Davidson, Viscountess||Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L.||Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)|
|Denman, Hon. R. D.||Levy, T.||Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)|
|Denville, Alfred||Liddall, W. S.||Snadden, W. McN.|
|Doland, G. F.||Lipson, D. L.||Somerset, T.|
|Donner, P. W.||Little, Sir E. Graham-||Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald|
|Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)||Llewellin, Colonel J. J.||Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.|
|Duggan, H. J.||Lloyd, G. W.||Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)|
|Duncan, J. A. L.||Loftus, P. C.||Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)|
|Dunglass, Lord||Lyons, A. M.||Strickland, Captain W. F.|
|Eastwood, J. F.||Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)||Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)|
|Eckersley, P. T.||McCorquodale, M. S.||Tate, Mavis C.|
|Edmondson, Major Sir J.||Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)||Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)|
|Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.||McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.||Thomas, J. P. L.|
|Ellis, Sir G.||McKie, J. H.||Thomson, Sir J. D. W.|
|Elliston, Capt. G. S.||Magnay, T.||Thorneycroft, G. E. P.|
|Emrys-Evans, P. V.||Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest||Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.|
|Entwistle, Sir C. F.||Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.||Titchfield, Marquess of|
|Errington, E.||Markham, S. F.||Touche, G. C.|
|Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)||Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.||Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.|
|Everard, Sir William Lindsay||Maxwell, Hon. S. A.||Turton, R. H.|
|Findlay, Sir E.||Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.||Walker-Smith, Sir J.|
|Fox, Sir G. W. G.||Medlicott, F.||Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan|
|Fremantle, Sir F. E.||Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)||Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)|
|Furness, S. N.||Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)||Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)|
|Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley)||Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)||Warrender, Sir V.|
|Gledhill, G.||Moreing, A. C.||Waterhouse, Captain C.|
|Giuckstein, L. H.||Morgan, R. H. (Worcester, Stourbridge)||Watt, Lt.-Col. G. S. Harvie|
|Goldie, N. B.||Morrison, G. A. (Soottish Univ's.)||Wells, Sir Sydney|
|Gower, Sir R. V.||Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)||Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)|
|Grant-Ferris, Flight-Lieutenant R.||Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.||Williams, C. (Torquay)|
|Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester)||Munro, P.||Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)|
|Gridley, Sir A. B.||Nall, Sir J.||Willoughby de Eresby, Lord|
|Grigg, Sir E. W. M||Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.||Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)|
|Grimston, R. V.||Nicholson, G. (Farnham)||Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.|
|Gritten, W. G. Howard||Nicolson, Hon. H. G.||Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl|
|Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)||O'Connor, Sir Terence J.||Womersley, Sir W. J.|
|Guinness, T. L. E. B.||O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh||Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.|
|Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W.||Orr-Ewing, I. L.||York, C.|
|Hambro, A. V.||Patrick, C. M.||Young, A. S. L. (Partick)|
|Hannah, I. C.||Perkins, W. R. D.|
|Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)||Peters, Dr. S. J.||TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—|
|Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton)||Petherick, M.||Lieut.-Colonel Kerr and Captain Dugdale.|
|Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)||Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.||Day, H.|
|Adams, D. (Consett)||Bromfield, W.||Debbie, W.|
|Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.)||Brown, C. (Mansfield)||Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)|
|Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford)||Buchanan, G.||Ede, J. C.|
|Adamson, W. M.||Cape, T.||Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)|
|Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.)||Charleton, H. C.||Evans, D. O. (Cardigan)|
|Ammon, C. G.||Chater, D.||Foot, D. M.|
|Anderson, F. (Whitehaven)||Cocks, F. S.||Frankel, D.|
|Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.||Collindridge, F.||Gallacher, W.|
|Banfield, J. W.||Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford||Gardner, B. W.|
|Barnes, A. J.||Dagger, G.||Garro Jones, G. M.|
|Bartlett, C. V. O.||Dalton, H.||George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey)|
|Batey, J.||Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)||Graham, D. M. (Hamilton)|
|Bellenger, F. J.||Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)||Green, W. H. (Deptford)|
|Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.||McGhee, H. G.||Shinwell, E.|
|Grenfell, D. R||McGovern, J.||Silkin, L.|
|Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)||MacLaren, A.||Silverman, S. S.|
|Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)||MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)||Simpson, F. B.|
|Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.)||Mander, G. le M.||Sloan, A.|
|Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)||Marshall, F.||Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)|
|Hall, J. H. (Whiteshapel)||Maxton, J.||Smith, E. (Stoke)|
|Harris, Sir P. A.||Milner, Major J.||Smith, T. (Normanton)|
|Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)||Morgan, J. (York, W.R., Doncaster)||Sorensen, R. W.|
|Hayday, A.||Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Haskney S.)||Stephen, C.|
|Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)||Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)||Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)|
|Henderson, J. (Ardwick)||Nathan, Colonel H. L.||Stokes, R. R.|
|Henderson, T. (Tradeston)||Naylor, T. E.||Summerskill, Dr. Edith|
|Hicks, E. G.||Noel-Baker, P. J.||Thurtle, E.|
|Hills, A. (Pontefract)||Oliver, G. H.||Tinker, J. J.|
|Hollins, A.||Paling, W.||Tomlinson, G.|
|Hopkin, D.||Parker, J.||Viant, S. P.|
|Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)||Parkinson, J. A.||Watkins, F. C.|
|Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)||Pearson, A.||Watson, W. McL.|
|Johnston, Rt. Hon. T.||Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.||Welsh, J. C.|
|Jones, A. C. (Shipley)||Poole, C. C.||Westwood, J.|
|Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.||Price, M. P.||White, H. Graham|
|Kirby, B. V.||Pritt, D. N.||Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)|
|Kirkwood, D.||Quibell, D. J. K.||Wilkinson, Ellen|
|Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.||Richards, R. (Wrexham)||Williams, T. (Don Valley)|
|Lawson, J. J.||Ridley, G.||Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)|
|Leach, W.||Riley, B.||Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)|
|Leonard, W.||Ritson, J.||Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)|
|Logan, D. G.||Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)|
|Lunn, W.||Rothschild, J. A. de||TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—|
|Macdonald, G. (Ince) McEntee, V. La T.||Sexton, T. M.||Mr. Mathers and Mr. Groves.|
§ It being after Midnight, the CHAIRMAN proceeded, pursuant to the Order of the House of this day, successively to put forthwith the Questions on Amendments moved by the Government of which notice had been given, and the Question necessary to dispose of the business to be concluded at Midnight at this day's sitting.
§ Amendments made:
§ In page 4, line 39, leave out "or," and insert "and."646
§ In page 5, line 3, after "be," insert "or would have been."
§ In page 5, line 3, after "liable," insert "to be registered in the military training register or."—[Mr. W. S. Morrison.]
§ Motion made, and Question put, "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 236; Noes, 125.649
|Division No. 112.]||AYES.||[12.12 a.m.|
|Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple)||Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)||Davidson, Viscountess|
|Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J.||Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)||Denman, Hon. R. D.|
|Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.)||Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.)||Denville, Alfred|
|Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G.||Bull, B. B.||Deland, G. F.|
|Albery, Sir Irving||Bullock, Capt. M.||Donner, P. W.|
|Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead)||Burghley, Lord||Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)|
|Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S.||Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.||Duggan, H. J.|
|Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.)||Butcher, H. W.||Duncan, J. A. L.|
|Anstruther-Gray, W. J.||Cartland, J. R. H.||Dunglass, Lord|
|Apsley, Lord||Carver, Major W. H.||Eastwood, J. F.|
|Aske, Sir R. W.||Cary, R. A.||Eckersley, P. T.|
|Assheton, R.||Castlereagh, Viscount||Edmondson, Major Sir J.|
|Baillie, Sir A. W. M.||Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester)||Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E.|
|Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet)||Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.)||Ellis, Sir G.|
|Balniel, Lord||Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.)||Elliston, Capt. G. S.|
|Baxter, A. Beverley||Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)||Emrys-Evans, P. V.|
|Beauchamp, Sir B. C.||Chapman, A. (Rutherglen)||Entwistle, Sir C. F.|
|Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h)||Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead)||Errington, E.|
|Beechman, N. A.||Colman, N. C. D.||Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)|
|Bernays, R. H.||Colville, Rt. Hon. John||Everard, Sir William Lindsay|
|Bird, Sir R. B.||Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs)||Findlay, Sir E.|
|Bottom, A. C.||Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.)||Foot, D. M.|
|Boulton, W. W.||Cox, H. B. Trevor||Fox, Sir G. W. G.|
|Boyce, H. Leslie||Cranborne, Viscount||Fremantle, Sir F. E.|
|Bracken, B.||Critchley, A||Furness, S. N.|
|Braithwaite, Major A. N. (Buckrose)||Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page||Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley)|
|Brass, Sir W.||Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C.||Gledhill, G.|
|Briscoe, Capt. R. G.||Crossley, A. C.||Gluckstein, L. H.|
|Broadbridge, Sir G. T.||Crowder, J. F. E.||Goldie, N. B.|
|Brocklebank, Sir Edmund||Cruddas, Col. B.||Gower, Sir R. V.|
|Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.)||Culverwell, C. T.||Grant-Ferris, Flight-Lieutenant R.|
|Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester)||Magnay, T.||Selley, H. R.|
|Gridley, Sir A. B.||Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest||Shakespeare, G. H.|
|Grigg, Sir E. W. M.||Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.||Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)|
|Grimston, R. V.||Markham, S. F.||Shepperson, Sir E. W.|
|Gritten, W. G. Howard||Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.||Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.|
|Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake)||Maxwell, Hon. S. A.||Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U. B'lf'st)|
|Guinness, T. L. E. B.||Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.||Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)|
|Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W.||Medlicott, F.||Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)|
|Hambro, A. V.||Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)||Snadden, W. McN.|
|Hannah, I. C.||Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)||Somerset, T.|
|Haslam, Henry (Horncastle)||Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)||Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald|
|Heilgers, Captain F. F. A.||Moreing, A. C.||Southby, Commander Sir A. R J.|
|Heneaga, Lieut.-Colonel A. P.||Morgan, R. H. (Worcester, Stourbridge)||Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)|
|Hepburn, P. G. T. Buahan-||Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)||Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)|
|Hepworth, J.||Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)||Strickland, Captain W. F.|
|Herbert, Lt.-Col. J. A. (Monmouth)||Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.||Stuart, Hon. J. (Meray and Nairn)|
|Higgs, W. F.||Munro, P.||Tate, Mavis C.|
|Hogg, Hon. Q. McG.||Nall, Sir J.||Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)|
|Holmes, J. S.||Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H.||Thomas, J. P. L.|
|Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L.||Nicholson, G. (Farnham)||Thomson, Sir J. D. W.|
|Horsbrugh, Florence||Nicolson, Hon. H. G.||Thorneycroft, G. E. P.|
|Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)||O'Connor, Sir Terence J.||Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.|
|Hulbert, Squadron-Leader N. J.||O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh||Titchfield, Marquess of|
|Hunter, T.||Orr-Ewing, I. L.||Touche, G. C.|
|Hutchinson, G. C.||Patrick, C. M.||Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.|
|James, Wing-Commander A. W. H.||Perkins, W. R. D.||Turton, R. H.|
|Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)||Peters, Dr. S. J.||Walker-Smith, Sir J.|
|Jones, L. (Swansea W.)||Petherick, M.||Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan|
|Keeling, E. H.||Piskthorn, K. W. M.||Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)|
|Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose)||Radford, E. A.||Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)|
|Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)||Raikes, H. V. A. M.||Warrender, Sir V.|
|Lamb, Sir J. Q.||Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.||Waterhouse, Captain C.|
|Lancaster, Captain C. G.||Rankin, Sir R.||Wells, Sir Sydney|
|Latham, Sir P.||Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)||White, H. Graham|
|Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)||Reed, A. C. (Exeter)||Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)|
|Leech, Sir J. W.||Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)||Williams, C. (Torquay)|
|Leighten, Major B. E. P.||Reid, J. S. C. (Hillhead)||Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)|
|Levy, T.||Reid, W. Allan (Derby)||Willoughby de Eresby, Lord|
|Liddall, W. S.||Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)||Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)|
|Lipson, D. L.||Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)||Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.|
|Little, Sir E. Graham-||Rothschild, J. A. de||Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl|
|Llewellin, Colonel J. J.||Rowlands, G.||Womersley, Sir W. J.|
|Lloyd, G. W.||Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.||Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.|
|Loftus, P. C.||Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.||York, C.|
|Lyons, A. M.||Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)||Young, A. S. L. (Partick)|
|Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)||Salmon, Sir I.|
|Macdonald, Capt. T. (Isle of Wight)||Salt, E. W.||TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—|
|McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.||Sandys, E. D.||Captain Dugdale and Lieut.-Colonel Harvie Watt.|
|McKie, J. H.||Scott, Lord William|
|Adams, D. (Consett)||Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H.||Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.|
|Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.)||Frankel, D.||Lawson, J. J.|
|Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford)||Gallacher, W.||Leach, W.|
|Adamson, W. M.||Gardner, B. W.||Leonard, W.|
|Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.)||Garro Jones, G. M.||Logan, D. G.|
|Ammon, C. G.||Graham, D. M. (Hamilton)||Lunn, W.|
|Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.||Green, W. H. (Deptford)||Macdonald, G. (Ince)|
|Banfield, J. W.||Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.||McEntee, V. La T.|
|Barnes, A. J.||Grenfell, D. R.||McGhee, H. G.|
|Barr, J.||Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)||McGovern, J.|
|Batey, J.||Griffiths, J. (Llanelly)||MacLaren, A.|
|Bellenger, F. J.||Groves, T. E.||MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)|
|Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W.||Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.)||Mander, G. la M.|
|Bromfield, W.||Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)||Marshall, F.|
|Brown, C. (Mansfield)||Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)||Maxton, J.|
|Buchanan, G.||Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)||Milner, Major J.|
|Cape, T.||Hayday, A.||Morgan, J. (York, W.R., Doncaster)|
|Charleton, H. C.||Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)||Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)|
|Chater, D.||Henderson, J. (Ardwick)||Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)|
|Cocks, F. S.||Henderson, T. (Tradeston)||Nathan, Colonel H. L.|
|Collindridge, F.||Hicks, E. G.||Naylor, T. E.|
|Gripps, Hon. Sir Stafford||Hills, A. (Pontefract)||Noel-Baker, P. J.|
|Daggar, G.||Hollins, A.||Oliver, G. H.|
|Dalton, H.||Hopkin, D,||Paling, W.|
|Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill)||Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)||Parker, J.|
|Davies, S. O. (Merthyr)||Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)||Parkinson, J. A.|
|Day, H.||Johnston, Rt. Hon. T.||Pearson, A.|
|Dobbie, W.||Jones, A. C. (Shipley)||Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.|
|Dunn, E. (Rother Valley)||Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.||Poole, C. C.|
|Ede, J. C.||Kirby, B. V.||Price, M. P.|
|Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty)||Kirkwood, D.||Pritt, D. N.|
|Quibell, D. J. K.||Smith, E. (Stoks)||Watson, W. McL.|
|Richards, R. (Wrexham)||Smith, T. (Normanton)||Welsh, J. C.|
|Ridley, G.||Sorensen, R. W.||Westwood, J.|
|Riley, B.||Stephen, C.||Wilkinson, Ellen|
|Ritson, J.||Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)||Williams, T. (Don Valley)|
|Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)||Stokes, R. R.||Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)|
|Sexton, T. M.||Summerskill, Dr. Edith||Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)|
|Silkin, L.||Thurtle, E.||Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)|
|Silverman, S. S.||Tinker, J. J.|
|Simpson, F. B.||Tomlinson, G.||TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—|
|Sloan, A.||Viant, S. P.||Mr. Mathers and Mr. Anderson.|
|Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)||Watkins, F. C.|
Resolution agreed to.
§ Whereupon the CHAIRMAN left the Chair to make his Report to the House.
§ Committee report Progress; to sit again To-morrow.