SCHEDULE. (Hansard, 5 May 1939)

§ Mr. Craven-Ellis
I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."
Having been in this House for nearly eight years, I look upon this day as one which gives me the greatest satisfaction. I do so particularly because this Bill is intended to protect almost every mem- 2295 ber of the adult population. As I said on Second Reading, the racketeers have had a very prosperous time in the past because they have not been checked, and I resented the fact that these men were able to exploit the generosity of the public. It is interesting to note that only yesterday a case was heard in the courts in a town adjacent to London in which a bogus charity collector was referred to. So, right up to the eve of this Bill reaching its Third Reading, the men who earn their living in this way are still active. It relates to a case where a collection was made on behalf of a charity named St. Mary's Children's Aid Society. It was disclosed in that case that the collectors received 20 per cent. of the contributions and further deductions were made by the man in question for his own benefit, and in one case no less than 50 per cent. was deducted for expenses by a collector. This Bill is intended to stop that, and not before it was time. To show how some people who may be interested in or practising this fraudulent method view this Bill I will read an anonymous letter which I received just after the Second Reading: I hope your Bill will not become law. If it does I am finished. In the past I have collected thousands, and am doubling my efforts to collect as much as I can in case your Bill is passed. I warn you to watch your step. I wish to thank all those of my colleagues in every part of the House who have helped me to get this Bill to its Third Reading. In particular I should like to thank the hon. and gallant Member for South-East Leeds (Major Milner) who seconded the Second Reading, and I cannot forget the generous help I have had from the Home Office officials and particularly from Sir Harry Pritchard, the Secretary of the Association of Municipal Corporations. I wish to extend my hearty thanks and appreciation to all these gentlemen. This Bill is one more step in our system of social progress, and I hope the public, for whose protection it is designed, will appreciate the work which is done on their behalf by this home of democracy.

§ Mr. Rhys Davies
I hope it may be deemed appropriate if I congratulate the hon. Member for Southampton (Mr. Craven-Ellis) on getting this Bill, as it is, very nearly on to the Statute Book. I 2296 suppose that every Member of Parliament will have come across some problems which are covered by this Bill—I have come across one or two myself—but we should all remember one thing. There is a tendency, because we are a democracy, to exaggerate the evils of our society. Frankly, there is no doubt that evils arising from charitable collections do come before the public from time to time, but I am sure that I am right in saying that the vast majority of people who collect for charity and who handle charitable funds are honest folk, and there must be hundreds of thousands of pounds properly distributed annually and it is worth while saying so.
In my small way I deal with accounts and the accounts which I handle have to be audited every year—by the Government by the way—and when they audit accounts they audit them well. There is little in this Bill to touch the problem of auditing, and my experience of these things leads me to the view that we are not dealing with the real problem of charitable funds unless we deal with the problem of auditing. It is too late now to deal with the problem in this Bill. I have more than once raised in this House the question of auditing by laymen who know no thing about accounts, and I hope the day will come when not only charitable funds, but funds in general in this country will have to be properly audited. I am satisfied that until we do reach that stage we shall not have dealt effectively with the issues under discussion to-day.

§ Mr. R. C. Morrison
I must add my congratulations to the hon. Member for Southampton (Mr. Craven-Ellis) on seeing this Bill through this House. I was a member of the Joint Committee of Lords and Commons who went exhaustively into this subject, and it is indeed a pleasure, after having spent so many hours upon a subject, to find that something has come of one's labours. I should like to mention, for the benefit of members who are interested, the names of some of the organisations engaged in this particular form of crime, perhaps the lowest form of crime one could practise, whose activities came under the close examination of the Joint Committee and are now to be effectively stopped, or at least so I hope. There are the Build a Better Britain Movement; the National Council for the Relief 2297 of Distress; the National Child and Destitute Help Society—the principals of this have been sentenced to three and six months' hard labour—The National Coronation Home; County Homes for Cancer; Road Accident Aids; the Young Down and Outs, Free Meals and Nightly Shelter Fund; the Happiness Home for Babies and British Workers Health Reform—the principal of this was fined 40s. for aiding and abetting a collector in infringing the Street Collections Act and admitted three other convictions—The Christian Volunteer Force; the Poor and Crippled Children's Aid Society; the National Children's Benefit Society; the South London Poor Children's Outing Fund; the Union of British Housewives; the Elderly Ladies Rest-Aid Association; the Birmingham and Midlands Fatherless Children Welfare Association; the Hospital Publications Save the Children Milk Fund; The Christian Relief Destitute and Unemployed Rescue Centre; the Friends of China; the Home for the Destitute Till the Night Passes Help Society; National Children's Sunshine Camp Fund, Brighton; The Salford Seamen's Mission, Salford; Poor Children's Aid Society; The Fund for Poor Children; The Homeless and Destitute Rescue Society.
And so one could go on with more than 200 of these organisations. I think the House will agree when I say that it is a good afternoon's work to put such a Bill a stage nearer the Statute Book. There is a particular phase of this kind of fraud in which I was especially interested. It is very largely confined to London and Greater London. I refer to the collection of waste material. Organisations have sprung up which leave bags at houses with a request to the householders to put in them anything for which they have no further use and then a collector calls for the bag. Some of the unfortunate people who have to go to stalls on Sunday morning to buy second-hand clothes find that a great many of the clothes have come from these so-called waste collections. In one case which was put before us the figures were startling; in the case of that society something like 2½d. in the £ was going to the charity.

§ Mr. Keeling
Would the hon. Member give the name of that society?

§ Mr. Morrison
I have a lot of correspondence here, but I do not know that we should advertise the society.
2298 Unfortunately the society has been so successful that a number of titled people are among its patrons. I have a document here which states: Patrons: the Earl of Lonsdale, the Earl of Westmorland, Viscount Tredegar, Viscountess Burnham and Lord Hirst of Witton.

§ Mr. Keeling
I think the name is the Waste Collection Department of the Excelsior Philanthropic Society.

§ Mr. Morrison
The hon. Member has given the information. I have reason to believe that a number of those distinguished people have since taken steps to have their names removed. I would finish as I began by congratulating the hon. Member, and by saying, without in the least disparaging any of the other Private Members' Bills which have gone through the House this Session, that I hope this will be the most successful Private Member's Bill.

§ Earl Winterton
As I am temporarily representing the Home Office, perhaps it will be appropriate if I add a word to what has already been said. I hope that the House will pass the Third Reading of this Bill. It represents, not for the first time in the history of this House, an illustration of the fact that even in the most difficult times and in the midst of the most controversial legislation a cordial agreement can be reached on both sides of the House on a matter which will receive the support also of those Members of the public of knowledge and experience. It is an illustration also of the most valuable kind of co-operation between the private Members of more than one party and the Home Office. On behalf of the Home Secretary and of the Scottish Office I would pay a tribute to the valuable work which was done by the Joint Committee to which the hon. Member has just referred.
I shall mention only one other point. The hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies) was quite right in saying that while it is obviously very necessary to pass this Bill to deal with a particular defect in our system of charitable collections in this country, it must not be taken outside this House and in other countries to indicate that there is something wrong in general with our charitable collections. The British public 2299 is the most charitable-minded and philanthropic of any public in the world and it is necessary that that spirit should not be perverted and diverted from its proper channel. That is what this Bill will do; it will prevent that perversion and diversion. The Bill is symmetrical in the sense that it rounds off the legislation already passed, which I understand has proved most beneficial in dealing with street collections. I hope that the information which has been given in the course of this Debate by the hon. Member who has just resumed his seat will serve as a warning to ill-disposed persons who may seek to take advantage of the tender heartedness of the charitable public not to persist in such courses; and that they will realise that the Home 2300 Office and this House will not hesitate to take action in other directions to protect genuine charitable collections if it is found that those persons persist in their evil courses.