§ Mr. Alan HerbertMr. Speaker, may I ask whether you have been able to make any inquiries into the matter which I mentioned after the Royal Commission last Friday?
§ Mr. SpeakerIn reply to the hon. Member for Oxford University, I can tell him, in the first place, that it is no part of my responsibility to supervise the procedure which is observed in another place on occasions when the Royal Assent is declared in the presence of the Lords Commissioners to Acts which have been agreed upon by both Houses. But, as the hon. Member has asked me a question as to whether the Clerk of the Parliaments departed from the established practice in omitting to bow to the Commons on the last occasion when this House attended the Lords Commissioners, I have caused inquiry to be made, and I am satisfied that the established practice was on that, as on other occasions, faithfully observed.
I am not quite clear as to precisely what opportunity for bowing to the Commons was, in the hon. Member's opinion, missed by the Clerk of the Parliaments. It is true that, when the Royal Assent is to be given to a Bill for granting aids and supplies to the Crown, the Clerk of the Parliaments receives it from my hands at the Bar of the House of Lords, with a bow of personal courtesy to myself, as the representative of the Commons. But on the occasion in question there was no such Bill.
If the hon. Member will recollect the historical significance of these occasions, namely, that the Commons are then 1700 present not as strangers at the Bar of the House of Lords, but as forming in conjunction with the Lords the High Court of Parliament in the presence of the King in the Parliament Chamber, he will realise that for the Clerk of the Parliaments to bow to the Commons without at the same time bowing to the Lords would imply a distinction between the two Houses in respect of their relations to His Majesty, which would be completely without warrant.
It is possible that the hon. Member has interpreted the bows which the Clerk of the Parliaments, and also the Clerk of the Crown, make to the Lords Commissioners as bows to the House of Lords. These are obeisances to the King, represented by the Lords Commissioners, and would be made without alteration if the Sovereign were present in person. The King when present, whether in person or by Commission, is alone entitled to an obeisance. If the Commons receive no bow on such an occasion, no more do the Lords.
It is true that when this House, led by myself, appears in the House of Lords, we bow as we proceed to the Bar. But these obeisances are not made to the Members of that House, but to the Lords Commissioners who represent His Majesty. These bows are courteously acknowledged by the Lords Commissioners. It may be that the hon. Member has unconsciously transferred this courtesy from the Lords Commissioners to the Clerk of the Parliaments.
§ Mr. HerbertI thank you, Sir, for the great trouble you have taken and for the very careful statement you have made. I perceive that I was wrong, and I beg to express regret to the House—
§ Mr. QuibellFor wasting its time.
§ Mr. HerbertMay I say, in reply to that interjection, that it is not a waste of time to preserve the ancient ceremonies of Parliament in their proper form? I apologise to the House for having acted without checking my information correctly, although that information proceeded from what seemed to me to be one of the most authoritative and experienced sources in the House. I further express a personal apology to the Clerk of the Parliaments for having suggested erroneously that he had departed from the practice and precedent of his predecessors in that manner, and I beg—[Interruption.] I have been asked by the Clerk of 1701 the Parliaments to withdraw what he called a charge, and I am doing so as best I can. I want to add to the withdrawal I have already made, that the Clerk of the Parliaments is entitled to conceive himself as being under a double sense of injustice, because I am informed by the Clerk of the Crown that the Clerk of the Parliaments has departed in one particular from the previous practice of his predecessors, but that that departure, far from reducing the courtesies due to the Commons, has in fact increased them. I will quote what the Clerk of the Crown wrote. [HON. MEMBERS: "Agreed."] I think it is a very interesting point, and it is an explanation of the confusion which has existed, not in my mind only, but in the minds of many much more experienced Members on all sides of the House. The Clerk of the Crown wrote:
The present Clerk has instituted a slight difference from the practice of his predecessor in that his predecessor, when pronouncing the words, used merely to turn his head and the upper part of his body towards the Commons, whereas the present Clerk of the Parliaments turns round on his feet before he pronounces the words.That is a graceful innovation of the present Clerk of the Parliaments, for which we should be grateful, and it does explain the confusion which has arisen in the minds of many hon. Members. It is clear that the turning of the body and head might easily have been taken to be a bow. It is not for me to suggest that, as the centuries pass, some further modification of that custom might possibly be made; and all I have to do now is to apologise to the Clerk of the Parliaments for the injustice I have done him.