HC Deb 27 March 1939 vol 345 cc1707-10
51. Sir William Davison

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether, now that provision is being made by means of steel air-raid shelters for the working classes living in small houses, he will state when it is proposed to survey the larger houses, especially those with basements, with a view to advising the occupants as to the best methods of protecting themselves from air-raid damage, blast, splinters, etc., so that the necessary works may be put in hand at the owner's expense?

The Lord Privy Seal (Sir John Anderson)

The general principles of structural precautions against air attack have been studied by the Royal Institute of British Architects and other professional bodies in considerable detail, and persons occupying larger houses of the type which my hon. Friend has in mind can obtain from architects skilled advice regarding the construction of air-raid shelters in their own homes. The Department cannot undertake to give individual advice in such cases, but general advice will be provided in a pamphlet giving technical information regarding the adaptation of basements and in a handbook dealing more comprehensively with structural protection as a whole. The pamphlet will be available very shortly, and the handbook is in an advanced stage of preparation, and both will be placed on sale through the usual Stationery Office agencies.

Sir W. Davison

Is this not a very technical matter upon which ordinary builders and architects are not qualified to give advice, and can the right hon. Gentleman say why one class of the community are being given shelters free and another class are not even to be given advice how, at their own expense, they can protect their houses and those in them for whose safety they are responsible?

Sir J. Anderson

I did not say that advice was not to be made available. I said that the Department could not undertake to give individual advice in the cases which my hon. Friend has in mind.

Sir Percy Harris

Could not an arrangement be made for local authorities to be put into a position to give advice required by householders, and are not the local authorities the most convenient agency for the purpose?

Sir J. Anderson

We are already putting heavy burdens on the technical advisers of local authorities in connection with the provision of shelters for that class of the community which could not reasonably be expected to provide such protection for themselves. I am anxious to go as far as humanly possible in the direction of giving advice, and I think it will be found that the pamphlet which will be ready early in April goes a very long way towards solving some of the more difficult problems.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Will the pamphlet be sold to those who apply for it, or how will it be distributed?

Sir J. Anderson

I said that the pamphlet will be on sale through the usual agents.

Mr. Noel-Baker

In other words, the householder must himself apply to the usual agents for the pamphlet?

Sir W. Davison

Is my right hon. Friend aware that it is not so much a question of individuals applying, but of whole streets which are of the same kind of architecture; and would it not be quite easy for a number of specialists, employed either by the local authorities or by the Government, to give general advice as to what sort of structural alterations are necessary?

Sir J. Anderson

I think my hon. Friend is under a misapprehension. The pamphlet to which I have referred is intended to give exactly that sort of advice where it is suitable for application on a large scale.

Mr. Hicks

Is it not the case that the Royal Institute of British Architects and the builders have for a long time been considering this matter; that they have themselves evolved ways and means of assisting the Department in this direction; and that their knowledge is available provided that it is sought?

52. Mr. Pethick-Lawrence

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether his attention has been drawn to the continual delay in completing the trenches in Lincoln's Inn Fields; why plans submitted to his Department by the Holborn Borough Council on 21st February last, have been only formally acknowledged; and whether he will take steps to have the matter settled so that the work can proceed immediately?

Sir J. Anderson

The proposals of the Holborn Borough Council with regard to the trenches dug in their area during the September crisis were received in the Air-Raid Precautions Department on 27th February, and their receipt was acknowledged on 1st March. As the proposals departed in some respects from the Department's general recommendations, communicated to local authorities as long ago as November last, it was necessary to obtain advice upon the technical questions involved. A letter was sent to the council on Friday last containing the comments of my technical advisers on these questions, and suggesting a discussion. I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that, when these technical issues have been disposed of, no time will be lost in authorising the council to proceed with the work.

Mr. Pethick-Lawrence

Does not the right hon. Gentleman realise that weeks upon weeks have gone by; that this is a very important centre with a large midday population; and that the continued delay in this and other similar instances is causing grave disquiet in the country and injuring the morale of the people?

Sir J. Anderson

I realise as well as anyone the irksomeness of these delays. I must point out to the right hon. Gentleman that in November last—I think on 21st November—a complete specification was issued showing how these trenches should be completed, and the local authorities were then told that, if they proceeded in accordance with the specification, they could assume that a grant would be issued as a matter of course. They were also informed that, if they chose to submit modified designs, those designs would be taken into consideration. In a large number of cases alternative designs were submitted and approved long ago, but—I make no reflection on anyone—it was only on 27th February that the Borough Council of Holborn submitted their proposals. I am satisfied that there has been no undue delay on the part of my Department in examining their scheme.

Mr. Price

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that all over the country similar conditions prevail, that there are unfinished trenches in public parks all over the country, and that the local authorities are all saying that they are awaiting a move by the Government?

Sir J. Anderson

If the local authorities are all saying that, they are not all telling the truth. In point of fact, in many cases great progress has been made in the completion of those trenches.

53. Mr. Noel-Baker

asked the Lord Privy Seal whether he has yet sanctioned for grant the plans for deep shelters laid before him by the Finsbury Borough Council?

Sir J. Anderson

No, Sir. The scheme has been found to require very close examination in its technical aspects, but I can assure the House that there will be no avoidable delay in completing that examination.

Mr. Noel-Baker

In view of the fact that it is now nearly two months since the scheme was submitted, and six months since the Munich crisis, when it was evident that we were totally unprepared to meet aerial bombardment, is it not now time that the Lord Privy Seal prepared a deep-shelter scheme and published it to the country?

Sir J. Anderson

The scheme submitted by the Finsbury Borough Council involves an entirely novel and, indeed, revolutionary engineering proposition, and I felt that I must have the best technical advice obtainable. I have not' yet received any formal report from my advisers, but I am aware that they have made certain criticisms which, to me as a layman, seem fundamental. The whole problem of heavily protected shelters, which involves fundamental research and constructional tests, has been handled with energy and with a considerable degree of expedition, and I am hopeful that it will not be long before a final pronouncement is made.