HC Deb 07 March 1939 vol 344 cc2055-75

17."That a sum, not exceeding £10 be granted to His Majesty, to make good an Excess on the Grant for the Foreign Office for the year ended the 31st day of March, 1938:

Class and Vote. Amount to be Voted.
CLASS II. £ s. d.
Vote I. Foreign Office 10 0 0"

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

10.17 p.m.

Mr. Garro Jones

May I ask the Undersecretary of State for Scotland whether he will give us an explanation of this Vote? I understand it has something to do with the provision of the fishery cruiser; no doubt he will interrupt me if I am wrong. I represent a fishing constituency. It sends trawlers out to the Iceland and other waters. The amount of trouble that those trawlers get in those waters from the fishery cruisers of other nations is causing considerable anxiety to those who have to fish in those waters. I want to know what are the precise duties of these cruisers, and whether the Undersecretary is completely satisfied that they will be able not only to protect British home waters, but also to give adequate protection to British trawlers fishing within their rights outside territorial waters in other areas? I regard that as equally important, and I would like an assurance that that is in the mind of the hon. Gentleman.

10.18 p.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Wedderburn)

I replied to a question on this subject yesterday. This sum is in respect of the additional charge for a new fishery patrol vessel, to replace an old one now being scrapped. The new boat, like the old one, will operate only on the West of Scotland, around the islands, and will not have anything to do with the waters near the hon. Gentleman's constituency. With regard to illegal trawling, I am glad to say that, as I pointed out yesterday, it has been very substantially diminished for some years, and the speed of these new boats now being built is much greater than the speed of the old boats which they are replacing. The function of this boat will be to patrol the waters of the West Coast of Scotland and the Outer Isles and the Inner Isles; it will not be possible for it to go to foreign waters to attend to the interests of our trawlers.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Sir Joseph Nall

May I ask the Undersecretary of State for Burma whether he has anything further to tell the House regarding the disorders in that country, whether the conditions are any better than they have been lately, and whether any further steps are being taken?

10.21 p.m.

The Under-Secretary of State for India (Lieut.-Colonel Muirhead)

My hon. Friend has raised rather a wide question. This particular Supplementary Estimate deals with the modernisation of the Army in India and certain questions relating to the re-equipment of Army units and of Royal Air Force units. I explained yesterday on the Committee stage that these grants arose on the report of the Garran Committee, which discussed certain matters which were in dispute between the Government of India, the War Office, and the Air Ministry. The particular point on which they immediately concentrated which had relation to these grants was the possibility of the Army in India being used outside India for general Imperial purposes. It was with that in view that certain grants were recommended with a view to modernising the Army in India in order to enable it to take its place outside India when it might be fighting side by side with units equipped in the modern fashion. That is the basis of these grants, and it is not really a question of internal security which is at issue.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

10.24 p.m.

Mr. Ede

I beg to move, to leave out "£18,700," and to insert "£18,600."

This matter was before the Committee last night, when, in introducing the Estimate, the only remark on the point to which I wish to draw attention made by the First Commissioner of Works was the single sentence: The amount required is still further decreased by the increase in appropriations-in-aid resulting from the sale of the Vienna Legation. Having told us that he said: with this explanation I ask the Committee to let me have the Vote. The attention of my right hon. Friend the Member for Gorton (Mr. Benn) was directed to this Vote, and it was not secured quite as quickly as the Minister expected. This transaction, in which the former Embassy and the late Legation at Vienna was sold for £9,150 of British money, is so astonishing that I do not think the House should let the Report stage go without some further explanation from the First Commissioner than he gave us last night. When he was pressed by my right hon. Friend he said: We thought that the best thing to do was to sell it when we had an opportunity, which had not been presented to us before. The National Socialist Flying Corps offered us 250,000 marks, and we were only allowed to take this money out of the country at the registered mark rate, so that it came to only £9,000. On consideration we thought it was the best thing to do."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 6th March, 1939; cols. 1835–36, Vol. 344.] After a reduction in the Vote had been moved the Minister spoke again, and said: If we had sold the property to a private individual, it is very likely, in view of the circumstances in Vienna to-day, that we should not have been able to get any money out at all. We are not in a position to dictate to the rulers of Vienna to-day."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 6th March, 1939; col. 1840, Vol. 344.] I do not know that anyone suggested that he of all persons was in a position to dictate to the rulers of Vienna, but I think the explanation he has given a very inadequate answer to the questions put to him. We know that they had an offer from the National Socialist Flying Corps. The Minister was asked last night whether the Government had any other offer for the building, and we received no reply. I repeat the question to-night. Was this offer from the National Socialist Flying Corps the only offer which was received for the building? He told us last night that the building cost £39,000 in the year 1873, and I have been informed by an architect in London, who is in a position to estimate fairly well what the building is worth, that to replace it would cost somewhere about £100,000 of English money. Members of the House who have at one time or another visited this Legation have assured me that it really is one of the most magnificent buildings that our Ambassadors abroad have occupied. I do not think the Minister can expect the House to accept the explanation he offered last night as being the last word he should give the House on the subject.

Is it an assumption on the part of the Government that this was the only way in which they could get the sum of money that they would be allowed to take out of the country? Did they make any inquiry from the German Government as to what would be the position if there was no other purchaser than the National Socialist Flying Corps? Do they assume that if they had upset the National Socialist Flying Corps by trying to get a better figure, the German Government would have shown their resentment of such a process by refusing to allow them to take out of the country the money which they secured for the building? We are supposed to be in friendly relationship with the German Government.

Mr. McKie

We are.

Mr. Ede

The hon. Member for Galloway (Mr. McKie) says that we are. I should have thought that as a Scotsman he would have recollected at least this text from the Scriptures: By their fruits ye shall know them. It does not apply to Germany, and it certainly does not apply to this transaction, if this is an example of the friendly way in which the relationships are being carried on. After all, it was in some way a recognition of the effects of German policy when we agreed to the sale of this Legation as an evidence that we accepted the Anschluss between Germany and Austria as an accomplished fact not likely ever to be altered. This is the amazing position. Right from the year 1870, when the German Empire was formed, down to 1914, I am informed that we maintained——

Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Colonel Clifton Brown)

The hon. Member is getting pretty wide of the somewhat limited point under discussion. This appropriation-in-aid, which is the sum paid for the Legation, cannot be discussed at great length.

Mr. Ede

So little is the sum that has been received that it would be almost an insult to discuss it at great length. I want to submit to the right hon. Gentleman that this is a transaction that ought to be defended with far more reasons than he adduced last night. Here we have the country's real estate in a foreign country being disposed of in this way, and it is not much better than confiscation for this very valuable house, with its historic associations, to be disposed of for this sum. [Interruption.] The hon. Member for Bromley (Sir E. Campbell), who can always be relied upon to draw the inapt parallel, asks about Russia.

Sir Edward Campbell

I have not uttered a word in this House for about a year and a half.

Mr. Ede

I thought it was the hon. Gentleman's voice that I heard; I am glad that I succeeded in breaking his silence. I do not know whether I should be in order in following up the interruption which certainly came from an hon. Member in that part of the House, by asking what happened with regard to the Legation at Petrograd after the capital of Russia was shifted to Moscow. I ask that question as an illustration of the policy which the Government have previously pursued. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to give us the real history of this transaction. Was it a single bid that was made, was any effort made to secure a better bid, was any effort made to secure from the German Government an assurance that if we could obtain more money than this, we should be allowed to take it out of the country? Was any intimation given to the German Government that we should not regard it as a friendly act if they declined to allow us to get the best price for this house and to take the money out of the country?

10.35 p.m.

Mr. David Adams

Last night I inquired from the Minister whether there was no item in respect of the proceeds of the sale of the previous Embassy premises at Rio de Janeiro.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I called the hon. Member because I thought he intended to second the Amendment.

Mr. Adams

I do, Sir. I was not sure whether you were calling me or not. I beg to second the Amendment. [Hon. Members: "Hear, hear."] I am very glad to know that the fact has given such gratification. I notice that this appropriation-in-aid to which my hon. Friend the Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) has called attention, is described as "Proceeds of the sale of the old Legation premises at Vienna." Why should the term "old" be used except to depreciate the quality of the building? Surely the reference should be simply to the" sale of the Legation premises at Vienna." As I observed last night, the House may be unduly concerned about this matter. It may be that this is just a little extension of the price of appeasement which the Government have been very eager and anxious, and at all times willing, to pay in that part of Europe. If that be so, perhaps to take £9,000 for something which is valued at anything from £50,000 to £100,000 is a reasonable transaction in all the circumstances. With regard to the item for the purchase of a site in Rio de Janeiro for the erection of an Embassy, may I inquire whether there was not an Embassy there previously? If not, there must have been a Legation. Has there been a sale of those premises, and, if so, what were the proceeds of that sale?

10.39 p.m.

Mr. Mander

As one who on several occasions enjoyed the hospitality of the British Embassy at Vienna, I should like to make two comments on this matter. I think the Government have been altogether premature in coming to this decision and have made a very bad bargain. After all, it was the Prime Minister himself who said not long ago that these regimes did not last for ever, and it may be that in a year or so Vienna will once more be the capital of a great country and that a British Ambassador will desire to reside there once again. It will be a pity, in that case, if he should find that this historic and famous Embassy has been disposed of for a paltry sum.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

We must not discuss the future on this Estimate; we can deal only with the present.

Mr. Mander

In so far as the building is concerned with the present state of affairs, I should have thought that in view of the great deal of work which has now to be done in connection with Austrian refugees, in Vienna, it might well be made use of by the people who are working at the Consulate. I think it is likely that they could do with extra facilities for dealing with refugees, and that the Embassy might prove very useful indeed to them. With regard to the sum that the Government have taken, it is a small sum, and not one which many other countries would have consented to take. I am sure that the United States Government, who have their own way of dealing with this regime, would have insisted upon being paid the full market price for a building of this kind, and I imagine that our Government accepted the price that they did only because of their well-known cringing attitude towards the dictators.

10.41 p.m.

Mr. Dalton

I hope that, before we vote on this Amendment, the First Commissioner of Works will say something to us about this very curious transaction. The premises are described as the Legation premises at Vienna. I also am one of those who have visited these premises, which were, of course, the old Embassy premises in the days when Austria-Hungary was a great Power before the War. In 1934 or 1935 I was in Vienna, and the Minister was kind enough to ask me to lunch. I remarked to him that I thought it was a very large and sumptuous building for a legation in a small Central European Power, which Austria had then become. It was a very sumptuously furnished building in prewar style, and it really takes a great deal to persuade us that £9,150 was at all a reasonable price for such a large and impressive building. It was luxuriously furnished, and I should like to know whether this niggardly, miserable sum includes any furniture or removeable ornaments and other goods from within the building, or whether we were merely paid £9,150 for an empty shell, which was handed over, as I understand, to the Nazi Flying Corps for training in bombing—a rather symbolic purpose. Did they take over the furnishings, or any of them, or only the mere shell of the building?

We should also like to know the date on which this transaction was concluded —whether it was before or after the famous pilgrimages to Canossa, or Godesberg, or wherever the places were at which our relations with Germany were supposed to have been so improved, owing to the Prime Minister's beneficent influence, that this country was to be treated once more with full respect. We should like to know, too, whether it really was the case, as was suggested when this matter was raised last night, that the German Government bluntly told His Majesty's Government that they could either take this sum and be allowed to bring it out of the country, or, if they would not close with this very miserable offer, they would not be allowed to bring out of the country the equivalent in sterling of whatever sum in German currency they were able to obtain. We should like a much more clear-cut and specific statement from the First Commissioner of the conditions under which this, as we think, very disgraceful bargain was entered into. I am not going to enlarge the field of debate by further comments on the attitude of His Majesty's Government towards the German Government, beyond saying that there are a number of other Governments who would, if they could feel sure that we should allow them so to treat us, be very glad to dispose of British Government property on the same kind of terms on which the German Government have been allowed to dispose of this historic and beautiful building. I think it is an insult to the House to come here and tell us that we have taken £9,000 for this very valuable building.

10.45 p.m.

The First Commissioner of Works (Sir Philip Sassoon)

I am sorry that hon. Members should feel that I did not give as full an explanation as possible to the Committee last night, but there is little that I can add to what I said yesterday. It is in large measure a question of opinion whether values are constant or not. I am afraid that values are not constant, and I think very few Members will feel that a great Embassy built in 1873, at a time when Vienna was the capital of a great Empire, can have the same value to-day as it had then. Big palaces and big buildings in Vienna are to-day a drug on the market, as we were informed when this offer was made to us. We were faced with the alternative of whether we should cut our losses and accept a diminution upon the original cost—

Mr. Dalton

What was the original price?

Sir P. Sassoon

It was £39,000, which included the site and the furniture. I may as well answer now the hon. Member's question about the furniture by saying that it has all been brought away from the house and was not included in the sale. Many people in England and in London have houses which they would be very glad to realise for considerably less than they paid originally. We were faced with the alternative of selling the house or of not selling it for a period of years and having to spend between £1,000 and £1,500 a year on maintaining it. The hon. Member for South Shields (Mr. Ede) asked whether we had had other offers. Not only did we have no other offers, but we were informed by our representatives on the spot that it was very unlikely that we should have other offers, because it was a building which was not likely to be purchased by any ordinary person, and would probably be of use only for some Government purpose. As I said last night, the fact that it was bought by the Government enabled us to get the money out of the country. If it had been purchased by an ordinary person the money might not have been got out of the country, as I think is well known to hon. Members. Therefore, taking it by and large, although it is true that we accepted a smaller sum for the house than it had originally cost, we did as well as we could possibly have hoped to do in the circumstances, and I hope the House will take that view.

Mr. Dalton

Can the right hon. Gentleman tell us the date of the sale?

Sir P. Sassoon

It was in July last.

10.48 p.m.

Mr. Garro Jones

I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman, of all persons, knows what he is talking about when he is speaking of values, but the complaint which is being made from this side is that every canon of sale and purchase was flouted when this building was sold at the most unfavourable moment in 100 years. Surely it must have been recognised by the British Government that at that time values were at their nadir in Vienna, and if they had merely let the building at a rental for a period of two, three, ten or 20 years——[Hon. Members: "They could not get a tenant."] We have not been informed that it was impossible to get a tenant. Have hon. Members who say that it was impossible to get a tenant any special sources of information? Were attempts made to get a tenant?

Sir P. Sassoon

Certainly.

Mr. Garro Jones

Why could not the place have been left unoccupied for a period? About two years ago I was passing a building in Queen Victoria Street and somebody said to me, "If you will come in to see a little property being sold here you will find that it is an interesting transaction." I was told that it was the sale of a small farm situated at Cockfosters, in the north of London and that just after the War it was worth about £5,000. So I went in to watch the sale of this farm. [Interruption.] I am entitled to give this as an analogy. I was very pleased to find that this farm, the property of the right hon. Gentleman who is in charge of this Estimate, sold for £116,000. I am quoting that perfectly valid analogy to show that if property is let for a short time it is perfectly possible ultimately to effect a sale. The right hon. Gentleman, of all people, knew what he was talking about when he said that values can change. If he had let this property lie fallow for a few years the Government would have made a much better bargain.

10.50 p.m.

Mr. Arthur Henderson

I understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that if the house had been sold to a private individual it would have been very difficult to bring the money out of Austria. Does that mean that if a British exporter sells commodities in Vienna he does not get anything in return? Surely under the clearing agreement the British exporter eventually receives payment in sterling? Would it not be the same in this case and if the house had been sold to a private individual the vendor would eventually have received payment in sterling?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

We cannot discuss the clearing agreement on this Vote.

Mr. Henderson

I am not asking the Minister to discuss the clearing agreement. I am asking him to explain why, in the event of this Legation being sold to a private individual, it would not have been possible to receive payment in sterling. In an ordinary commercial transaction the money would be paid, and I cannot understand why it is different in the case of the sale of a Legation.

Sir P. Sassoon

It is well known that private individuals in Germany and Austria cannot take money out of the country.

Mr. David Adams

May I have an answer to the question I put last night, whether there was any sale of property in connection with the new Embassy at Rio?

Sir P. Sassoon

No, not yet.

Mr. E. J. Williams

I was rather surprised that the Minister would have the House believe that, if the Legation were sold to a private person, the British Gov- ernment would not have the prestige or authority to demand the cash that the private person would pay. Surely the House is not led to believe that the Government would not have sufficient authority to obtain the payment in sterling which any private purchaser would pay for a building of the kind.

10.54 p.m.

Mr. G. Griffiths

We pressed the Minister very hard last night, but I think to-night he has really come out of this job worse than he did last night. He stated quite frankly last night that the British Government had not got power, if it sold this property to a private individual, to get the money out of Vienna. I certainly deny the statement made by the right hon. Baronet last night when he said: If we had sold the property to a private individual, it is very likely, in view of the circumstances in Vienna to-day, that we should not have been able to get any money out at all. We are not in a position to dictate to the rulers of Vienna to-day."—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 6th March, 1939; col. 1840, Vol. 344.] It is not a matter of dictating, it is a matter of having a square deal. Here is £39,000's worth of property, and we give it to this Flying Corps for £9,000; and, yet when we come here and ask for some money for our own people, we cannot get it at all. The hon. Baronet added: I do not see what else we could have done. Is not that throwing your arms up and saying you are helpless? If I had been concerned in the matter I should have done what the Minister did with his own property—hold it up until I got a good price. This great, all-powerful Government, the Government that rules the world, bows the knee to Baal for £9,000. There was, said the Minister, no other offer; who would make an offer against these people? They wanted it, and because they wanted it nobody else would make an offer; and so the hon. Baronet said, What could we do? Well, what we can do is to vote against him to-night.

Question put, "That' £18,700' stand part of the Resolution."

The House divided: Ayes, 175; Noes, 115.

Division No. 55.] AYES. [7.32 p.m.
Adams, D. (Consett) Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Owen, Major G.
Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford) Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Parker, J.
Adamson, W. M. Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Parkinson, J. A.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Hardie, Agnes Pearson, A.
Ammon, C. G. Harris, Sir P. A. Poole, C. C.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Hayday, A. Price, M. P.
Banfield, J. W. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Pritt, D. N.
Barr, J. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's)
Bevan, A. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Broad F. A. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Ridley, G.
Bromfeld, W. Jagger, J. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Buchanan, G. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Rothschild, J. A. de
Burke W. A. John, W. Seely, Sir H. M.
Charleton, H. C. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. Silverman, S. S.
Chater, D. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Cluse, W. S. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Cocks, F. S. Kirkwood, D. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Cove, W. G. Lathan, G. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Daggar, G. Lawson, J. J. Sorensen, R. W.
Dalton, H. Leach, W. Stephen, C.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leonard, W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Leslie, J. R. Stokes, R. R.
Day, H. Logan, D, G. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Dobbin, W. Lunn, W. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Macdonald, G. (Ince) Taylor, R. J. (Morpath)
Eda,.J. C. McEntee, V. La T. Tinker, J. J.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) McGhee, H. G. Tomlinson, G.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) MacLaren, A. Viant, S. P.
Evans, E, (Univ. of Wales) MacNeill Weir, L. Watkins, F. C.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Mainwaring, W. H, Watson, W. McL.
Frankel, D. Mander, G. le M. Wedgwood, Rt, Hon. J. C.
Gardner, B. W. Marklew, E, Welsh, J. C.
Garro Jones, G. M. Marshall, F. Westwood, J.
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Messer, p. Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Montague, F. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Morrison, R. G. (Tottenham, N.) Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Muff, G. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Grenfel, D. R Noel-Baker, P. J.
Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Oliver, G. H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Mr. Anderson and Mr. Mathers.
NOES.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P, G. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Palmer, G. E. H.
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Gridley, Sir A. B. Peake, O.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Grimston, R. V. Perkins, W. R. D.
Aske, Sir R. W. Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (Cmb'rwll, N.W.) Radford, E. A.
Balfour, G. (Hampstead) Guinness, T. L. E. B. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Hacking, Rt. Hon. Sir D. H. Ramsbotham, H.
Batniel, Lord Hambro, A. V. Ramsden, Sir E.
Barrie, Sir C. C. Hannah, I. C. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Harbord, A. Rayner, Major R. H.
Beit, Sir A. L. Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Bernays, R. H. Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Blair, Sir R. Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Remer, J. R.
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.) Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Boyee, H. Leslie Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Braithwaite, J. G. (Holderness) Higgs, W. F. Rosbotham, Sir T.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Hogg, Hon. Q. McG. Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)
Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.) Holdsworth, H. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Holmes, J. S. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A
Bull, B. B. Hopkinson, A. Russell, Sir Alexander
Campbell, Sir E. T. Howitt, Dr. A. B. Samuel, M. R. A.
Cartland, J. P. H. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Cheater) Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Schuster, Sir G. E.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Hume, Sir G. H. Selley, H. R.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Hunloke, H. P. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Channon, H. Hunter, T. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Hutchinson, G. C. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Christie, J. A. Jarvis, Sir J. J. Smith, Sir Louis (Hallam)
Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n) Smithers, Sir W.
Clydesdale, Marquess of Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Colfox, Major W. P. Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Lamb, Sir J. Q. Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak) Spens. W. P.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Leech, Sir J. W. Stewart J Handerson (Fife E.)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs) Lees-Jones, J. Storey S.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Leighton, Major B. E. P. Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Cox, H. B. Trevor Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Craven-Ellis, W. Lipson, D. L. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page Lloyd, G. W. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Sutcliffe, H.
Cross, R. H. MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Tate, Mavis C.
Crossley, A. C. McCorquodale, M. S. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Davies, C. (Montgomery) MacDonald, Sir Murdoeh (Inverness) Titchfield, Marquess of
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Macdonald, Capt. T. (Isle of Wight) Touche, G. C.
Denman, Hon. R. D. McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Turton, R. H.
Denville, Alfred McKie, J. H. Wakefield, W. W.
Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Maitland, Sir Adam Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Donner, P. W. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Dorman-Smith, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir R. H. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Han. H. D. R. Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Drewe, C. Markham, S. F. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Duncan, J. A. L. Marsden, Commander A. Wells, Sir Sydney
Dunglass, Lord Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Eastwood, J. F. Medlicott, F. Williams, C. (Torquay)
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Emery, J. F. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Windsor-Clive, Lieut. Colonel G.
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Mitcheson, Sir G. G. Wise, A R.
Fildes, Sir H. Moreing, A. C. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Fleming, E. L. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry Wood Hon. C. I. C.
Fox, Sir G. W. G. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Wragg, H.
Fremantle, Sir F. E. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Furness, S. N. Munro, P. York, C.
Gledhill, G. Nall, Sir J. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Gluckstein, L. H. Nicholson, G. (Farnham)
Gower, Sir R. V. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. TELLERS FOR THE NOES,—
Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Captain Water-house and Major
Grant-Ferris, R. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Harvie Watt.

Eighth Resolution read a Second time.

Division No. 56.] AYES. [10.59 p.m.
Acland-Troyle, Lt.-Col. G. J. Gluckstein, L. H. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P.G. Cower, Sir R, V. Ramsbotham, H.
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Aske, Sir R. W. Grant-Ferris, R. Rayner, Major R. H.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester) Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Gridley, Sir A. B. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) Remer, J. R.
Balniel, Lord Guest, Hon, I. (Brecon and Radnor) Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)
Beit, Sir A. L. Hambro, A. V. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Bernays, R. H. Hammersley, S. S. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Hannah, I. C. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Boyce, H. Leslie Harbord, A. Russell, Sir Alexander
Braithwaite, J. G. (Holderness) Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.) Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Samuel, M. R. A.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Higgs, W. F. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Bull, B. B. Hogg, Hon. Q. McG. Scott, Lord William
Butcher, H. W. Holdsworth, H. Selley, H. R.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Holmes, J. S. Shaw, Major p. S. (Wavertree)
Cartland, J. R. H. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Hume, Sir G. H. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Channon, H. Hunloke, H. P. Smith, Sir Louis (Hallam)
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Hunter, T. Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald
Christie, J. A. Hutchinson, G. C. Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) Keeling, E. H. Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Clydesdale, Marquess of Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Spens. W. P.
Cobb. Captain E. C. (Preston) Kimball, L. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Colfox, Major W. P. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Storey, S.
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Conant, Captain R. J. E. Leech, Sir J. W. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk N.) Leighton, Major B. E. P. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Lipson, D. L. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Cooper. Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Lloyd, G. W. Tate, Mavis C.
Cox, H. B. Trevor Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Craven-Ellis, W. McCorquodale, M. S. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Titchfield, Marquess of
Cross, R. H. McKie, J. H. Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Cruddas, Col. B. Makins, Brig.-Gen. Sir E. ' Turton, R. H.
Culverwell, C. T. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Wakefield, W. W.
Davidson, Viscountess Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Davies, C. (Montgomery) Markham, S. F. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Dorman-Smith, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir R. H. Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Dower, Lieut.-Col. A. V. G. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Watt, Major G. S. Harvie
Duggan, H. J. Medlicott, F. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Duncan, J. A. L. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Wells, Sir Sydney
Dunglass, Lord Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Eastwood, J. F. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A J. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Munro, P. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Nall, Sir J. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Elliston, Capt. G. S. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Emery, J. F. O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Wise, A. R.
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Palmer, G. E. H. Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Everard, Sir William Lindsay Peake, O. Wragg, H.
Fleming, E. L. Perkins, W. R. D. Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Fox, Sir G. W. G. Peters, Dr. S. J. York, C.
Fremantle, Sir F. E. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Furness, S. N. Procter, Major H. A.
Gledhill, G. Radford, E. A. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Captain Hope and Mr. Grimston.
NOES.
Adams, D. (Consett) Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel)
Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford) Day, H. Harris, Sir P. A.
Adamson, W. M. Dobbie, W. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'libr.) Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Hayday, A.
Ammon, C. G. Ede, J. C. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Henderson, J. (Ardwick)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Hills, A. (Pontefract)
Banfield, J. W. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Jagger, J.
Barnes, A. J. Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)
Barr, J. Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)
Batey, J. Garro Jones, G. M. John, W.
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Johnston, Rt. Hon. T.
Bevan, A. Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Jones, A. C. (Shipley)
Burke, W. A. Green, W. H. (Deptford) Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Chater, D. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.
Cluse, W. S. Grenfell, D. R. Kirkwood, D.
Cocks, F. S. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.
Daggar, G. Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Lathan, G.
Dalton, H. Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Lawson, J. J.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Leach, W.
Leonard, W. Parker, J. Stokes, R. R.
Leslie, J. R. Parkinson, J. A. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Logan, D. G. Pearson, A. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Lunn, W. Pools, C. C. Thurtle, E.
Macdonald, G. (Ince) Price, M. P. Tinker, J. J.
McEntee, V. La T. Pritt, D. N. Tomlinson, G.
McGhee, H. G. Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.) Viant, S. P.
MacLaren, A. Richards, R. (Wrexham) Walkden, A. G.
Mainwaring, W. H. Ridley, G. Watkins, F. C.
Mander, G. le M. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) Watson, W. McL.
Marklew, E. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens) Welsh, J. C.
Marshall, F. Seely, Sir H. M. Westwood, J.
Mathers, G. Silkin, L. While, H. Graham
Messer, F. Silverman, S. S. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Smith, E. (Stoke) Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Nathan, Colonel H. L. Smith, T. (Normanton) Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Oliver, G. H. Sorenson, R. W.
Owen, Major G. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Charleton.

Resolution agreed to.

Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Thirteenth and Fourteenth Resolutions agreed to.

Fifteenth Resolution read a Second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

11.9 p.m.

Mr. Benn

What Minister is in charge of this Vote? There is a Minister for Overseas Trade, and I presume he is normally in charge of a Vote of this character.

Captain Wallace

This Vote is accounted for by the Treasury. If the right hon. Gentleman had been here last night he would have heard my brief, but I hope convincing, explanation of this Supplementary Estimate.

Question put, and agreed to.

Sixteenth Resolution read a Second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

11.10 p.m.

Mr. Benn

May I ask whether there is somebody deputising for the Scottish Law Officers? It is a usual compliment to the House when the Government are asking for these large sums of money for the Minister to be present.

Captain Wallace

I understand that it is also usual on a Report stage, if the Vote has been explained on Committee stage, for the Minister to see whether any observations have been made before replying to them. I made a brief statement on this Estimate last night and it was supplemented by a clear and lucid explanation from the Lord Advocate. If there is any particular question which the right hon. Gentleman wishes to raise I should be glad to answer it.

Mr. Benn

The only question is why the Lord Advocate only arrived in hot haste a second after the Question was proposed.

Question put, and agreed to.

Seventeenth Resolution read a Second time.

Motion made, and Question proposed,

"That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Mr. Benn

There is a certain practice in this House, whether on Report stage or Committee stage, that Ministers who present Estimates should be here. All the Estimates are accounted for by the Financial Secretary to the Treasury and his name appears on them all, but he cannot possibly be responsible for the details of the many Departments. Unless there is a Minister representing the Foreign Office present in deference to the House, I shall propose that the Debate be adjourned.

Captain Wallace

I really think that the right hon. Gentleman is taking this excess Vote a little too seriously. It was reported to the House on 28th February and, in accordance with the usual procedure, was described in a printed statement which no doubt the right hon. Gentelman has read. The facts have been considered by the Public Accounts Committee who reported to the House approving provision of this excess Vote. It is usual when excess Votes have been through the mill of the Public Accounts Committee for the House to be satisfied with their action as watchdogs.

Mr. Benn

In that case I will move, "That the Debate be adjourned." I say that it is disrespectful to the House that the Minister is not present.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker (Colonel Clifton Brown)

I do not accept that Motion.

Mr. Benn

May I submit to you that your power to reject such a Motion depends on your opinion that it is an abuse of the Rules of the House?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

That is the reason I said I did not accept it.

Mr. Benn

On a point of Order. I submit seriously that it has been the custom for Ministers to be present when their Votes are taken. There is no desire to prolong the Debate unnecessarily, but I do think that from the House of Commons point of view it is the appropriate Motion to make to ensure that a Minister is present when a Vote of his Department is being moved. If you rule that it is an abuse of the Rules of the House to ask for a Minister to be present, I bow to your Ruling.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

This seems to me a reasonable Ruling to give, and I do not accept the Motion.

11.15 p.m.

Mr. A. V. Alexander

Is the Deputy-Speaker able to give a precedent for ruling that such a Motion is an abuse of the Rules of the House in a case where a Minister is not present to take part in the Debate on his own Vote?

Mr. Garro Jones

May I submit that there are innumerable precedents for that Motion being accepted on no other ground? So far from being in accordance with precedent, it is a serious departure from precedent to refuse the Motion on those grounds. You have it in your power either to put the Question immediately or to permit Debate upon it. I suggest that you should at least allow the Motion to go to a Division without further debate.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I will not allow further debate on this, because I have given my Ruling already. If the right hon. Gentleman is dissatisfied with my Ruling, he has a remedy.

11.16 p.m.

Mr. Benn

I have not the least desire to challenge your Ruling, Sir, but I am entitled to submit that, by the practice of this House, I am entitled to make such a Motion and the Chair to accept it.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

It may have been the practice sometimes—I do not say on every occasion—but it is within the discretion of the Chair to decide whether such a Motion shall be accepted, and my decision is not to accept it.

Mr. Benn

Then your Ruling is that to move the Adjournment of the House on account of the absence of a Minister on his own Vote is an abuse of the Rules of the House?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

That is not so. I judge by the circumstances of the time.

Mr. Attlee

I understood you, Sir, when my right hon. Friend first put his point, to give as your reason that you did consider it an abuse of the Rules of the House. Do I understand that that is wrong?

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

No, I did not consider that this was serious enough to justify me in accepting the Motion.

Mr. Benn

I understand that, under the Rules, you may either put the Motion immediately or, if the matter is serious enough, permit a Debate.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I cannot allow my Ruling to be questioned.

11.18 p.m.

Mr. Garro Jones

With very great respect to you, Sir, there is only one ground on which you can refuse to accept this Motion.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

I have said that I cannot allow my Ruling to be questioned. If I am wrong, the right hon. Gentleman has his remedy.

Mr. Garro Jones

May I, with great respect, appeal to the Patronage Secretary to withdraw this Motion, because there is a very important principle, involving Parliamentary procedure, involved. I have no wish to question your Ruling, but I feel that a very serious precedent is being created, and before it is entered in the record I would ask the Patronage Secretary to withdraw this Motion.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

The Question is, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

Mr. Benn rose ——

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

Is this a point of Order?

Mr. Benn

No, Sir, I am speaking on the Motion.

Mr. Deputy-Speaker

The right hon. Gentleman has exhausted his right to speak.

Mr. Benn

No, Sir, I have not exhausted my right to speak on the original Motion. The Patronage Secretary last night was good enough to say we should have a statement on the "Stangrove" case. I was told by the courteous Private Secretary at the Foreign Office to-day that, after a full inquiry, that statement would be made. I wanted to be sure on this Vote, and that is why I desired to ask the Minister whether a statement made in such circumstances will permit us to go very fully into the case. We want to be quite sure that, when the statement is made, it shall be made in such circumstances as will permit of cross-questions in the House, so that we may get to the root of the matter?

11.20 p.m.

Captain Wallace

I think there is honestly some slight misunderstanding about the nature of this Vote. It is not really, if I may say so with great respect, a Foreign Office Vote. The excess Vote is for the year 1937, two years ago, and is primarily a matter for the Public Accounts

Committee and the Treasury. That is the reason why it has always been the custom for the Financial Secretary to take it. This is not a case where the Financial Secretary as maid of all work is taking Votes for a Minister who is not present. I submit that this is perfectly properly a Treasury Vote. It is a question which had been examined by the Public Accounts Committee, who are the watch dogs of the House in this matter, and it is simply a question of the House ratifying formally the sum required for this particular purpose. My right hon. Friend the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs has been here the greater part of the day, and as the House knows he has at this moment a great deal of other work to do. I honestly believe that in the ordinary way of things it is my duty to take this Vote. It is a Treasury Vote on which I am prepared to make a statement.

Mr. Benn

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman answer my question?

Captain Wallace

In regard to the question of the "Stangrove," I am afraid that I am not in a position to answer on a Foreign Office Vote for 1937.

Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

The House divided: Ayes, 170; Noes, 103.

Division No. 57.] AYES. [11.23 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. C. J. Craven-Ellis, W. Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor)
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Cross, R. H. Hambro, A. V.
Aske, Sir R. W. Cruddas, Col. B. Hammersley, S. S.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Culverwell, C. T. Hannah, I. C.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Davies, C. (Montgomery) Harbord, A.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Duggan, H. J. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)
Balniel, Lord Duncan, J. A. L. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)
Beit, Sir A. L. Dunglass, Lord. Higgs, W. F.
Bernays, R. H. Eastwood, J. F. Hogg, Hon. Q. McG.
Boyce, H. Leslie Edmondson, Major Sir J. Holdsworth, H.
Braithwaite, J. G. (Holderness) Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E Holmes, J. S.
Brooks, H. (Lewisham, W.) Elliston, Capt. G. S. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Emery, J. F. Horsbrugh, Florence
Bull, B. B. Emmott, C. E. G. C. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)
Butcher, H. W. Emrys-Evans, P. V. Hunloke, H. P.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Hunter, T.
Cartland, J R. H. Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Hutchinson, G. C.
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Everard, Sir William Lindsay Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Channon, H. Fleming, E. L. Keeling, E. H.
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Fox, Sir G. W. G. Kimball, L.
Christie, J. A. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) Furness, S, N. Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)
Clydesdale, Marquess of Gledhill, G. Leech, Sir J. W.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Gluckstein, L. H. Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Colfox, Major W. P Gower, Sir R. V. Lloyd, G. W.
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Conant, Captain R. J. E, Grant-Ferris, R. McCorquodale, M. S.
Cooks, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester) Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Gridley, Sir A. B. McKie, J. H.
Cox, H. B. Trevor Guest, Lieut-Colonel H. (Drake) Makins, Brig.-Gen. Sir E.
Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Reid, W. Allan (Derby) Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Remer, J. R. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Markham, S. F. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) Titchfield, Marquess of
Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry) Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Ross Taylor, W. (Wood bridge) Turton, R. H.
Medlicott, F. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R. Wakefield, W. W.
Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Russell, Sir Alexander Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) Waterhouse, Captain C.
Munro, P. Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P. Watt, Major G. S. Harvie
Nail, Sir J. Scott, Lord William Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Selley, H. R. Welts, Sir Sydney
O'Connor, Sit Terence J. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree) Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Orr-Ewing, I. L. Shepperson, Sir E. W. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Palmer, G. E. H. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Peake, O. Smith, Sir Louis (Hallam) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Perkins., W. R. D. Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald Wise, A. R.
Peters, Dr. S. J. Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Spears, Brigadier-General E. L. Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Porritt, R. W. Spens. W. P. Wragg, H.
Radford, E. A. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.) Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Raikes, H. V. A. M. Storey, S. York, C.
Ramsbotham, H. Stourton, Major Hon. J. J. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Rankin, Sir R. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Rayner, Major R. H. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F. Lieut.-Colonel Kerr and Mr.
Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Tate, Mavis C. Grimston.
NOES.
Adams, D. (Consett) Harris, Sir P. A. Poole, C. C.
Adamson, Jennie L. (Dartford) Hayday, A. Price, M. P.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Pritt, D. N.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Ridley, G.
Banfield, J. W. Jagger, J. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Barnes, A. J. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Barr, J. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Seely, Sir H. M.
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. John, W. Silkin, L.
Bevan, A. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. Silverman, S. S.
Burke, W. A. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Simpson, F. B.
Charleton, H. C. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Chater, D. Kirkwood, D. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Cocks, F. S. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Daggar, G. Lawson, J. J. Sorensen, R. W.
Dalton, H. Leach, W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leonard, W. Stokes, R. R.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Logan, D. G. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Day, H. Lunn, W. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Dobbie, W. Macdonald, G. (lnce) Thurtle, E.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) McEntee, V. La T. Tinker, J. J.
Ede, J. C. McGhee, H. G. Tomlinson, G.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) MacLaren, A. Walkden, A. G.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Mainwaring, W. H. Watkins, F. C.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Mander, G. le M. Watson, W. McL.
Garro Jones, G. M. Marshall, F. Welsh, J. C.
Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Messer, F. Westwood, J.
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) White, H. Graham
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Whiteley, W. (Blaydon)
Grenfell, D. R. Nathan, Colonel H. L. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Oliver, G. H. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Owen, Major G. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Parker, J. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Parkinson, J. A.
Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Pearson, A. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Mathers and Mr. Adamson.