§ 3. Mr. Gallacherasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to the speech of Herr Hitler stating 1273 that he decided to intervene in Spain in July, 1936; and does he contemplate making a protest against this misleading of the Non-intervention Committee?
§ Mr. ButlerThe answer to the fast part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the last part in the negative. The German Government must be well aware of the views of His Majesty's Government.
§ Mr. GallacherIs it not evident that a policy of gross deception has been carried on all the time in the Non-intervention Committee?
§ Mr. Speakerrose—
§ Mr. GallacherOn a point of Order. The whole gist of my question on the Order Paper is directed towards this question of the complete breach of faith in connection with the Non-intervention Committee. I consider that I should be allowed to ask a Supplementary Question dealing with the conduct of the Government in the Non-intervention Committee.
§ 4. Mr. Gallacherasked the Prime Minister whether he will bring the matter of the use of German submarines during the Spanish war before the League of Nations?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir. The question of foreign intervention in the Spanish civil war was more than once considered by the League, and now that the war is ended, no useful purpose would be served by raising the matter afresh.
§ Mr. GallacherWhen the head of an important State openly declares that he has been carrying on a policy of piracy on the High Seas, is it not desirable that this should be discussed at the League of Nations with a view to taking steps to prevent anything of the kind occurring again?
§ Mr. ButlerI think that if the hon. Gentleman had attended the discussions of the League, he would be aware that many of the Members of the League did not approve of the question of non-intervention in the Spanish conflict coming before the Council.
§ Mr. ThurtleEven if the hon. Gentleman does not think it worth while raising the question again, will the Government bear this in mind as one other reason why they should not trust the word of the German Government?
§ 8. Lieut.-Commander Fletcherasked the Prime Minister whether during the progress of the Spanish civil war the Government had any information as to two submarines having been placed at the disposal of General Franco by the German Government; and, if so, what representations were made to the German Government concerning this breach of her non-intervention undertakings?
§ Mr, ButlerReports that German submarines were co-operating with General Franco's forces were brought to the attention of His Majesty's Government, but it was not possible to vouch for them sufficiently to justify the making of representations.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherIs it not a reflection on the Naval Intelligence Service that His Majesty's Government did not have conclusive evidence about the activities of these submarines?
§ Mr. ButlerI should not accept any reflection on the Naval Intelligence Service, which I think is the best in the world.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherMay I ask whether it is not the case that during the whole course of the Spanish civil war, His Majesty's Government always had the information which fitted in with their policy and never had any information which revealed the follies of that policy?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. and gallant Member should not ask questions of that kind, which he knows he would not be allowed to put on the Paper.
§ Mr. ShinwellAm I to understand from your Ruling, Sir, that we are not to be allowed to ask supplementary questions which bear on the Government's policy either in the past or now?
§ Mr. SpeakerThe hon. Member knows quite well the Rules that apply to questions. It has always been the rule that supplementary questions should conform to the same Rules.
Mr. J. J. DavidsonIs it not in order for an hon. Member to suggest that the Government's policy is such and such a policy?
§ Mr. SpeakerQuestion Time is a time to ask questions and not to make suggestions.
§ 9. Mr. Arthur Hendersonasked the Prime Minister whether the coasts of the Spanish zone in Morocco opposite Gibraltar, and excluding Ceuta, remain unfortified as agreed by the Spanish Government under the provisions of the Franco-Spanish Treaty, 1912?
§ Mr. ButlerMy Noble Friend's information is that no part of the coast comprised in the Spanish zone, which, of course, excludes Ceuta and Melilla, has been fortified.
§ 12. Mr. Vernon Bartlettasked the Prime Minister whether he has information that apart from light war material, any German or Italian aeroplanes, tanks or artillery have been sent back from Spain to their countries of origin; and whether the Spanish Government has paid or been asked to pay, in cash or in kind, for the war material left in its control by the German and Italian authorities?
§ Mr. ButlerA number of aeroplanes are reported to have left Spain, but my Noble Friend has no definite evidence about tanks or heavy artillery. It is understood that a substantial proportion of the material handed over is being sold rather than given away.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherAs His Majesty's Government are completely satisfied with the good faith and honour of the Italian Government in this matter, is there any reason why they should not ask the Italian Government for this information?
§ Mr. ButlerI have given the hon. and gallant Gentleman and the House the information in my possession and I think it is well to confine our attention to the information received in that way.
§ Sir Archibald SinclairWill the right hon. Gentleman ask the Italian Government for the information, for which he is being pressed by several hon. Members in different parts of the House?
§ Mr. ButlerI will certainly consult my Noble Friend on that subject.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIs it not the duty of the Italian Government under the Anglo-Italian agreement, in reference to the exchange of military information to inform His Majesty's Government of what they have done?
§ Mr. ButlerIf the hon. Member refers to the terms of the Agreement, he will see that the provision for exchange of military information does not apply to the Western Mediterranean.
§ Mr. DenmanIs it not far better that this material should remain in Spain than that it should go to Italy?
§ 13. Mr. Bartlettasked the Prime Minister whether he has information as to the number of Italian airmen, and Italian or ex-Italian aircraft, still on the Island of Majorca?
§ Mr. ButlerAt the beginning of June about 200 Italian airmen remained in Majorca. Since then they are reported to have been leaving in small batches, and none are expected to remain. The number of aircraft of Italian origin left in Majorca is understood to be very small.
§ Mr. BartlettWill the Government consider the advisability of suggesting to the Italian Government how very much the loyal carrying out of the Anglo-Italian Pact, in respect of the Island of Majorca, would facilitate that return to good relations which we all desire?
§ Mr. ButlerCertainly that consideration will be borne in mind. I would point out that we expect the Italian airmen to leave Majorca, and, as I said in my answer, the number of aircraft of Italian origin left there is said to be very small indeed.
§ 16. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been called to the statement in an Italian Government publication that 100,000 Italian troops were sent to Spain between 15th December, 1936, and 15th April, 1937; and whether he is satisfied that they have now all, or almost all, been withdrawn from Spanish territory?
§ Mr. ButlerThe answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and the second part in the affirmative.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerHas the right hon. Gentleman seen the official Italian statement that 100,000 Italian troops were sent to Spain; and since the Government have only told us about 40,000 being withdrawn, will they inquire at Rome what has happened to the other 60,000?
§ Mr. ButlerI should like first to see the statement, to the publication of which the hon. Gentleman refers, if he will be kind enough to send it to me.
§ 18. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister for what reason the House of Commons was not informed of the statement made at the end of March, 1938,by Count Ciano to the British Ambassador at Rome to the effect that some Italian war material might, when the war was over, be sold or given to the Spanish Government?
§ The Prime MinisterI would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave to questions on 7th June.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerSeeing that the fact of this conversation with Count Ciano was of fundamental importance in the negotiations which the Prime Minister was carrying on, ought it not to have been reported to the House, when the Agreement was laid before the House?
§ The Prime MinisterIt has already been explained that the Government did not consider it of fundamental importance.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerIn view of the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, I beg to give notice that I will raise this question on the Adjournment.
§ 19. Mr. Leachasked the Prime Minister the date, tenor, and circumstances of all occasions since July, 1936, when assurances implying non-intervention in the Spanish civil war were given by the Governments of Germany and Italy?
§ Mr. ButlerThe German Government acceded to the Non-intervention Agreement on 17th August, 1936, and the Italian Government on 21st August. To give the full particulars asked for by the hon. Member would involve an amount of research which would be hardly justifiable.
§ Mr. LeachMay I take it that all these assurances which these two Governments have made have been accepted as true?
§ Mr. ButlerHis Majesty's Government have made clear throughout the Spanish war that they regretted that intervention was taking place on both sides.
§ Mr. A. HendersonIs it not the case that at a meeting of the Non-intervention Committee in February, 1937, the Italian Government said it was a monstrous thing to charge the Italian Government with having sent these troops?
§ Mr. ButlerIf the hon. and learned Member desires me to do so, I will look into the minutes of the Non-intervention Committee.
§ Mr. ManderWould it not be a comparatively easy matter for the right hon. Gentleman to give the number of occasions on which the assurances given were actually complied with?
Miss RathboneSeing that the right hon. Gentleman has several times repeated the statement that there was intervention on both sides, and on one occasion said that there had been intervention on both sides from the beginning of the war, may I ask whether there is any evidence whatever of Russian intervention prior to the middle of October, 1936?
§ 32. Lieut.-Commander Fletcherasked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty whether during the Spanish civil war any reports were received at the Admiralty of the operations of the two submarines placed at the disposal of General Franco by the German Government; and whether any attacks upon British ships were carried out by these submarines?
§ The Parliamentary Secretary to the Admiralty (Mr. Shakespeare)I have no information to support the belief that German submarines were operating as part of General Franco's forces.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherHas the hon. Gentleman's attention been called to the statement made by the German Government that these submarines were operating and that they rendered very valuable service indeed?
§ Mr. ShakespeareWhat I said was that we had no information to that effect.
§ Lieut.-Commander FletcherIs it not very bad outlook for anti-submarine work during war time if the presence of these submarines did not become known to His Majesty's Navy during the course of the Spanish war?
§ Mr. A. HendersonDoes the hon. Gentleman mean that the Admiralty have no official information or no unofficial information?
§ Mr. ShakespeareNo information at all.
§ Mr. ManderWhat is the use of people being on secret service if we get no information from them?
§ Mr. Benjamin SmithIs it pot a fact that when the Nyon Agreement was signed it was brought about primarily not only by piracy, but by active submarines from either Italy or Germany?
§ Mr. ShakespeareThe nationality was not known.