HC Deb 11 July 1939 vol 349 cc2103-15

(1) Notwithstanding anything in Sub section (2) of Section thirteen of the Finance Act, 1920, a licence in respect of any mechanically-propelled vehicle taken out at any period of the year may, at the option of the applicant on payment of the full duty, be valid for the ensuing twelve months.

(2) This Section shall come into operation on the first day of January, nineteen hundred and forty.—[Mr. Pethick-Lawrence.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

5.13 p.m.

Mr. Pethick-Lawrence

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

This Clause is peculiar in this respect, that, though I am proposing to add it to the Finance Bill, there is very little finance in it either from the point of view of the Chancellor of the Exchequer or of the taxpayer. Its specific object is to enable a year's licence for a motor car to be taken out at any period of the year. According to the present law the only date on which a year's licence can be taken out is 1st January. A quarter's licence can be taken out on 1st January, 1st April, 1st July or 1st October. With the exception of those arrangements there is no other possibility for a person who owns a motor car.

Let us see what the consequences of this are, because I do not think the Chancellor has ever grasped the great inconvenience that the present system causes both to the public and to the trade. A man orders a car. He does not know the exact date on which it will be delivered. It depends on a great many circumstances over which neither he nor the retail agent has any control. It is ready perhaps somewhere in November, and the potential owner of the car has two alternatives. He can either take out a quarter's licence for the half of the quarter which is left, or he can postpone taking possession of the car until 1st January. But it is not only the new car that is in question, because the man who is buying the new car very likely has another car which he is going to give in exchange for it. If he postpones taking possession of the new car until 1st January, and he wants to have a car to drive all the time, the secondhand car which he will give in part exchange has also to be transferred on 1st January. In turn, his secondhand car is probably going to be taken over by a man who has another car to exchange.

Therefore, a whole succession of orders is involved in the change of ownership on 1st January. This causes great inconvenience to the owner of the car. It means that he has to pay for the broken period a whole quarter's licence or he has to wait until 1st January. To the trade it creates almost confusion, because I am informed that in some cases they have an enormous number of cars which have to be housed in the last few days of the year in order that this immense migration shall take place precisely on 1st January. In other words, the present law works out rather on the plan of the old saying, "When father says 'Turn,' we all turn." When the Chancellor says that 1st January is the date on which the licence has to be taken out, the whole motor trade turns over, and all the car owners turn over, on that particular date. That does not exhaust the difficulties which are involved by this process. There are also the licensing authorities to be taken into account. The licensing authorities, instead of having the work of licensing the various cars spread over the whole calendar year, have to compress nearly all their licensing— all the yearly licensing, anyhow—into a very few days, and as a result very high pressure of work, considerable inconvenience, and in some cases a measure of delay are caused.

What is the ground on which this extraordinary state of affairs continues? I suppose it is a certain difficulty that is alleged with regard to administration. It is suggested that the present law has this one great advantage, that there is a special licence which is issued on 1st January, and the police can see at a glance whether or not the car owner has taken out a licence for that particular year—the 1939 licence, the 1940 licence, and so on. I can see a certain amount of advantage in that, but I cannot believe that that difficulty is insuperable. Even at the present time there are quarterly licences taken out which involve a different type of licence, and the actual cardboard or form of the licence has to be examined to see exactly what it is. I cannot imagine that there would be any difficulty, either, in seeing that the date shall appear up to which the licence continues and after which it expires. But supposing there is the difficulty which we have been told in accepting the Amendment as I have moved it, namely, that a licence can be taken out from any day in the calendar year, I should be willing to accept an Amendment of my Amendment to the effect that, instead of being any day in the calendar year, it should be any first day of the month in the calendar year.

Mr. Duncan

That is the case at present. I did it myself last year. I bought a car on 1st December and got a licence for one month, from 1st December to 31st December, so that the right hon. Gentleman is suggesting what is the actual practice now.

Mr. Pethick-Lawrence

I am not suggesting what the hon. Member says at all. What I am suggesting is that the car owner shall be able to take out a 12-months' licence on the first day of any calendar month. I would prefer him to be able to take it out on any day of the month, but if we are told that there are difficulties involved, I am willing to accept the first day of any month. There are various devices which could be adopted to enable this to be done. After all, charitable organisations and newspapers which have subscribers have to carry out this method of being able to check subscriptions which run out on a certain date, and I do not think there would be any overwhelming difficulty in the Revenue authorities having to do something of that kind. I said at the beginning of my speech that this was a matter which I thought had little or nothing of finance in it, from the Chancellor's point of view. He might lose a little in one way, because, as I have already explained, people who want to take out a licence somewhere in the middle of a quarter, under the present law are compelled to take it out for the whole quarter. In some cases, it is said, they may take it out for a month.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Transport (Captain Austin Hudson)

They may get a rebate.

Mr. Pethick-Lawrence

In any case the Chancellor of the Exchequer may make a slight loss by the removal of the present inconvenience. On the other hand, I think he might equally make a gain, because there are some people who would delay taking out their licence who, if this change in the law were made, would take it out and start driving their new car say, in the middle of November or December instead of waiting till 1st January, and in that way the Chancellor would make a gain on the transaction. But over and above all that, I believe that where there is no large amount of revenue concerned, it must be to the advantage of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in the long run to convenience the public, whereas the present precise method of collecting this tax seems to me to create the maximum of inconvenience, and I can see no advantage in continuing it. If we are to be told that the reason is financial, I believe that that can be swept away, I would almost say, as a quibble. If we are told that the difficulty is administrative, I believe that that can equally be overcome. I suggest to the Chancellor that by bringing in his new horse power tax, he has given a great deal of annoyance, not only to motorists, but to the trade. He has told us that he cannot help it, that he has to get his revenue, and that he must impose the tax in this particular form, a view which many of us have not shared, but at the same time I suppose it is past remedying to-day. But here is a small matter, an Amendment which I believe he should accept, which would give some little consolation to the motorists and which would be welcomed by the trade. I commend it to his consideration as something which would be of advantage, which would cost him nothing, or next to nothing, and which could be made to work if he and the Minister of Transport set their minds to the job.

5.27 p.m.

Lieut.-Colonel Moore-Brabazon

My right hon. Friend the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick-Lawrence) has, in moving his new Clause, shown ingenuity. There is something to be said for the fact that at present one cannot wed up a licence to the nearest quarter. What he proposes is that on any day of the year we should be able to take out a yearly licence, and that would be a convenience, but that is for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to decide. If, however, one could, on any day of the month, wed the time up to the end of the quarter, I think that would be a convenience which would very nearly fill the bill. I see a certain danger in the suggestion. One might use the idea as an insurance policy against future taxation. Nowadays, when we do not know what the horse power tax will be, and when we do not know what the formula is to be, it might indeed be very tempting to take your licence out one day before the Budget, so that in that way you would know where you would be for the year.

I think the Chancellor of the Exchequer wants to appreciate this point, which has, I believe, never yet been brought out, that he stands in a very vulnerable position with the present quarterly taxation. After all, most of the motorists pay on a yearly basis, on 1st January. If you had a concerted conspiracy of disgruntled motorists—and I cannot help saying that that state has nearly arrived several times—they might all conspire to pay, not a yearly licence, but only a quarterly licence, which they are all entitled to do, starting from 1st January, which would result in a deficit for one year of something over £10,000,000 on the right hon. Gentleman's Budget. That is a danger which he has to realise could occur on the present basis. Whether he is prepared to go further, as my right hon. Friend suggests, is for him to decide, but there are perils in the position of the tax even to-day.

5.30 p.m.

Captain Sir William Brass

I want to look at this matter from a rather different angle. I feel that there is a great deal of justification in the case which has been made by the right hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick - Lawrence). During previous Debates on the subject I discussed the psychological effect of the increased horse-power tax which comes into force on 1st January, and I feel that if the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman opposite is brought into operation the Chancellor will actually gain. Anybody proposing to buy a new motor car assesses how much the car will cost him and also, probably, how much he is going to pay in taxation on it for the year, and when he has accumulated enough money to pay for the car and the tax he probably buys it. If he were able to do what the right hon. Gentleman suggests he would probably buy his new car in the summer, when most people do buy cars, and pay the whole year's tax, and would not then feel worried by the thought that on 1st January, when all the bills come in, he would have his car tax to pay. He would be able to carry on until the next summer, by which time he would probably have been able to accumulate enough money to pay the tax again; certainly he would desire to do so, because it would be the summer.

I feel there is something in what the right hon. Gentleman said and I hope that my right hon. Friend the Chancellor will consider it. After all, a driving licence can expire at any time in the year, and one is reminded—after considerable agitation by various Members in this House, including myself—when its renewal is due. There is no reason why the same principle should not be adopted in the case of the tax on the car itself. In looking at this matter the Chancellor ought to bear in mind the bomb-shell which hits everybody on 1st January. Motorists should be allowed to take out a whole year's licence whenever they buy the car, instead of taking it out only quarter by quarter or till the end of the year, as is the case at present.

5.33 P.m.

Mr. Duncan

The present position of the law, as I understand it, is that a motorist can take out either a yearly or a quarterly licence, or can take out a two-monthly licence to the end of a quarter or a one-monthly licence to the end of a quarter, so that a very large part of the grievance of the right hon. Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick-Lawrence) has, I think, been met as far as part-yearly licences are concerned. He went on to the suggestion in his new Clause to make a yearly licence last for 12 months from any date on which it is taken out. My first objection to that proposal is that there would be 365 licence dates in the year, and though the right hon. Gentleman did say that the licence date might be confined to the first day of every month I think the motorist would be worse off in the end. If a motorist were enabled to take out a licence on 1st December to last for the next 12 months he would have a pink licence for 1939 displayed on his wind-screen, whereas a man who took out his licence on 1st January would probably have a green licence for 1940 displayed on his windscreen. The police, instead of being able to see by the difference in colour when the licence expired would have to stop every motorist in order to inspect the actual date upon the licence. Therefore, from the point of view of the motorist it would be an unwise change to make; and it would add enormously to the difficulties of the police in enforcing the law. It would probably mean an increase in the cost of police administration, at any rate, in county districts

5.35 P.m.

Captain Hudson

When I first saw this new Clause I had some difficulty in discovering its object, and I think it has been obvious from the Debate that hon. Members are not fully seized of the various ways in which licences can be taken out. If the new Clause were adopted it would cause the maximum of administrative difficulty with the minimum of advantage to the holders of the licences. A short while ago we had to resist a proposal to have monthly licences on the ground that 12 expiry dates would make it almost impossible for the police to keep a check on expired licences. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Kensington (Mr. Duncan) said, we now have only four expiry dates, the ends of the four quarters, and every licence comes to an end on 31st December. The way the police keep a check on the licences of motor vehicles is by means of a visual check. They have to know the different colours of the licences which expire on those four dates. If this Amendment were taken literally there would be not only four expiry dates but 365. The right hon. Gentleman said he would be prepared to alter his new Clause in order that the expiry date should always be at the end of a month, but even then we should have exactly the same position as in the case of the monthly licence, that is, no fewer than 12 expiry dates. When the tax was put up we considered very carefully whether anything could be done to meet the case of what is called the small man, by allowing him to take out his licence for a month, but we found that proposal was impossible. This new Clause does not affect such a man in the least. It simply concerns the man who can take out a licence for the year. The small man who finds difficulty in paying the whole licence for the year in one sum is not helped in any way.

Mr. Silverman

The hon. and gallant Member referred to 365 expiry dates. There are 365 expiry dates for driving licences and 365 expiry dates for insurance policies, and it is no more important that a motorist should pay his road tax than that he should be properly licensed and insured. Why would it be more in-convenient to have 365 expiry dates for the road tax than 365 expiry dates in the other case?

Captain Hudson

I tried to explain that. Insurance certificates or driving licences do not have to be exposed on the vehicle. But the way the police check up on these road licences is by means of the visual discs. If we had a completely different system the argument might be valid, but that is the present system, and it works well, with a minimum of inconvenience. It is not necessary, as some hon. Members seem to think, to pay a whole quarter's licence. Supposing a man buys a new car in November, he can obtain a new licence for two months or in December for one month. Provided he pays from the beginning of a month he can take out his licence on any date and it can end at the end of a quarter or at the end of the year. I do not think the Chancellor need be unduly worried about the proposed strike, if I may so call it, referred to by my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Wallasey (Lieut.-Colonel Moore-Brabazon) because if motorists all took out quarterly licences on 1st January next they would have to pay an additional 10 per cent. They might feel that was a good thing to do in order to annoy the Chancellor, but they would be cutting off their noses to spite their faces and I do not think they will be likely to do it. Further, if this new Clause were passed there would be the difficulty of arranging for any possible Budgetary alteration. At present the Chancellor knows that on 1st January all licences, quarterly, half-yearly or yearly, come to an end, and I believe that certain Members of this House hope that before very long the duty may be reduced again. If the Chancellor wants to make an alteration he can at present do so on 1st January, but it would be extremely difficult to do it if all these licences came to an end at different times.

The right hon. Gentleman who moved the Clause said he thought it would cost the revenue practically nothing, but that is not so. In the first complete financial year it would be liable to cost the Chancellor something. Supposing I were to take out a licence now, in July. I should have to take it out from 1st July and it could end on 31st December, and on 1st January I should again take out a licence, and if I were a person who takes out a whole year's licence I should take out the licence for a further 12 months, making 18 months in all; but if this new Clause were in operation my licence would run from 1st July last to 30th June next, and in that way the Chancellor would lose a certain amount of revenue in the first financial year. I ask the House to reject the Clause, not on that ground, but on the ground of the practical impossibility of administration. I do not believe it would be of great advantage to motorists, and I do know that the administrative difficulties of having at least 12 expiry dates would make it practically impossible for a proper check to be kept upon expired licences.

5.42 p.m.

Mr. Ede

The hon. and gallant Member has not convinced me of the administrative inconvenience of this proposed change. He slurred over the inconvenience which now falls upon those who have to collect this money for him. All the big county councils and county borough councils are placed in this difficulty, that in the first fortnight or three weeks of a new year they have to take on a substantial number of temporary clerks in order to cope with the work of issuing these licences. It is true that the hon. and gallant Member's Department or the Excise authorities pay for them, but there is the administrative difficulty of having in the office a number of temporary workers handling substantial sums of money and dealing with matters of this kind, and that point ought to be taken into consideration. The proposal that the licence could be taken out on any day, or taken out at the commencement of each month, would spread the work more evenly over the year, and there could be permanent servants in charge of it, who would do the work more efficiently and whose employment would be more satisfactory to all concerned.

The hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Silverman) pointed out that the Department do not worry over the fact that an insurance policy can expire on any day, and the hon. and gallant Member said that was because the motorist does not have to show his insurance policy on the car. I think it is more important that a motorist should show his insurance policy than that he should show his road licence. On financial grounds the Chancellor may not agree with that view, but it would be of more benefit to the people of this country to be assured that the driver was insured than that they should be assured that he had paid his licence. In spite of the law every magistrate from time to time finds in front of him some man of straw who has been driving with most disastrous results to the life and limb of other road users and has no insurance policy. When the police do not want to do anything no one is more ingenious than they in proving that it cannot be done. I recollect how for many years they said that it was impossible for policemen to wear white armlets. I have heard Home Secretaries explain to us in this House that it was impossible for a policeman on traffic duty to wear a white armlet, that the discipline of the force would disappear, the clothing bill would be considerably augmented and that the whole thing was fantastic and impossible. It has been done, and, as far as I know, without any disastrous results to the Police Force. I imagine that a few police-men are alive to-day because they have been wearing white armlets which they would not have worn if the reform had never been made.

The police are good judges of colour, and I cannot see why you could not have a circular card, like the one that you have at the moment, but divided into 12 sectors with two colours. If the licence were taken out on 1st November, two sectors should be in the colour for that year and the remaining 10 sectors in the colour for the next year. That is a very simple way of doing it, and if the police wanted to do it, as a way of identifying, for example, the car owned by my hon. Friend the Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher), or in some way to identify a particular group of cars, the system would present no difficulty. It would be a substantial convenience to the motorist and to those administrative bodies upon whom the Chancellor of the Exchequer imposes the duty of collecting the licence. One of my right hon. Friends adds that it would also be of considerable convenience to the

trade. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will not close his mind to this idea. Clearly, there is more to be said for it than has been disposed of by the speech of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, who has evidently been inspired mainly by the police in their more conservative moments. I sincerely hope that next year the right hon. Gentleman will be able to meet the point of view put forward by my right hon. Friend.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 121; Noes, 249.

Division No. 232.] AYES. [5.49 p.m.
Adams, D. (Consett) Groves, T. E. Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Prim, M. P.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Ammon, C. G. Hardie, Agnes Ridley, G
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Riley, B.
Banfield, J. W. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Ritson, J.
Barnes, A. J. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Barr, J. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Sanders, W. S.
Batey, J. Hollins, A. Sexton, T. M.
Beaumont, H. (Batley) Hopkin, D. Shinwell, E.
Bellenger, F, J. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Silkin, L.
Benson, G. Jenkins, Sir W, (Neath) Silverman, S. S
Bevan, A. John, W. Simpson, F. B.
Broad, F. A. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, Bon (Rotherhithe)
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Smith, E. (Stoke)
Buchanan, G. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Burke, W. A. Kirkwood, D. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Cope, T. Lawson, J. J. Sorensen, R. W.
Charleton, H. C. Leach, W. Stephen, C.
Cluse, w. S. Lee, F. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Clynes, R. Hon. J. R. Leonard, W. Stokes, R. R.
Collindridge, F. Leslie, J. R. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Cove, W. G. Logan, D. G. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Dagger, G. Leach, W. Thorne, W.
Dalton, H. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Tinker, J. J.
Dobbie, W. McEntee, V. La T. Tomlinson, G.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) McGhee, H. G. Viant, S. P.
Ede, J. C. McGovern, J. Watkins, F. C.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) MacLaren, A. Watson, W. McL.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwelty) Maclean, N. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Edwards, N. (Caerphilly) Mainwaring, W. H. Walsh, J. C.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Marshall, F. Westwood, J.
Gallacher, W. Maxton, J Whitelay, W. (Blaydon)
Gardner, B. W. Montague, F. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Garro Jones, G. M. Morgan, J (York, W.R., Doncaster) Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Gibson, R. (Greenock) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Wilmot, John
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Naylor, T. E. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Noel-Baker, P. J. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Grenfell, D. R. Paling, W. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffith, G. A. (Hermsworth) Parkinson, J. A.
Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Pearson, A. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Mr. Mathers and Mr. Adamson
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Broadbridge, Sir G. T.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Brocklebank, Sir Edmund
Albery, Sir Irving Beit, Sir A. L. Brooke, H. (Lewisham, W.)
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Bennett, Sir E. N. Bullock, Capt. M.
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Bernays, R. H. Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Blair, Sir R. Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L.
Aske, Sir R. W. Bossom, A. C. Burton, Col. H. W.
Assheton, R. Bolton, W. W. Butcher, H. W.
Baillie, Sir A. W. M. Boyce, H. Leslie Cartland, J. R. H.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. Bracken, B. Carver, Major W. H.
Balniel, Lord Braithwaite, Major A. N. (Buckrose) Cary, R. A.
Barrie, Sir C. C. Brass, Sir W. Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester)
Baxter, A. Beverley Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. Rawson, Sir Cooper
Channon, H. Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Read, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Remer, J. R.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Hepworth, J. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Christie, J. A. Higgs, W. F. Ropner, Colonel L.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Holdsworth, H. Rosbotham, Sir T.
Clarke, Colonel R. S. (E. Grinstead) Holmes, J. S. Roes Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. Rowlands, G.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Howitt, Dr. A. B. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.
Colfox, Major Sir W. P. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Hume, Sir G. H. Russell, Sir Alexander
Conant, Captain R. J. E. Hunloke, H. P. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Hunter, T. Salmon, Sir I.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith. 5.) Jarvis, Sir J. J. Salt, E. W
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W't'rS. G'gs) Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) Samuel, M. R. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Sandeman, Sir N. S.
Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. Kellett, Major E. O. Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Craven-Ellis, W. Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Schuster, Sir G. E.
Crooke, Sir J. Smedley Kerr, Sir John Graham (Sco'sh Univs.) Seely, Sir H. M.
Crookshank, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. F. C. Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Selley, H. R.
Cross, R. H. Kimbull, L. Shakespeare, G. H.
Crossley, A. C. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Shepperson, Sir E. W
Crewder, J. F. E. Leech, Sir J. W. Shute, Colonel Sir J. A
Culverwell, C. T. Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L, Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Davies, C. (Montgomery) Levy, T. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
De Chair, S. S. Liddall, W. S. Smithers, Sir W.
De la Bère, R. Lindsay, K. M. Snadden, W. McN.
Denman, Hon. R. D. Looker-Lampson, Com dr. o. S. Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald
Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Loftus, P. C. Somerville, Sir A. A. (Windsor)
Doland, G. F. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J.
Dorman-Smith, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir R. H. MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Drewe, C. McCorquodale, M. S. Spens, W. P.
Dugdale, Captain T. L. McKie, J. H. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Duggan, H. J. Magnay, T. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Duncan, J. A. L. Maitland, Sir Adam Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Edge, Sir W. Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Edmondson, Major Sir J Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Ellis, Sir G. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Stuart, Rt. Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Markham, S. F. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Marsden, Commander A. Tasker, Sir R. I.
Errington, E. Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. Tate, Mavis C.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Evans, Colonel A. (Cardiff, S.) Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham) Thomas, J. P. L.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Thorneycroft, G. E. P.
Everard, Sir William Lindsay Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Thornton-Kemsley, C. N.
Fildes, Sir H. Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C. Titchfield, Marquees of
Findlay, Sir E. Morgan, R. H. (Worcester, Stourbridge) Touche, G. C.
Fleming, E. L. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry Train, Sir J.
Foot, D. M. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C
Fox, Sir G. W. O. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R L.
Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley) Munro, P. Wakefield, W. W.
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Gluckstein, L. H. Nicholson, G. (Farnham) Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Warrender, Sir V.
Goldie, N. B O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Gower, Sir R. V. O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Wayland, Sir W. A.
Grant-Ferris, Flight-Lieutenant R. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Wells, Sir Sydney
Granville, E. L. Owen, Major G. White, H. Graham
Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Peat, C. U. Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Gridley, Sir A. B. Petherick, M. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Griffith, F. Kingsley (Mdl'sbro, W.) Pilkington, R. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Grimston, R. V. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Gritten, W. G. Howard Porritt, R. W. Wise, A. R.
Gunston, Capt. Sir D. W. Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir Assheton Womersley, Sir W. J.
Hacking, Rt. Hon. Sir D. H. Procter, Major H. A. Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Radford, E. A. York, C.
Harbord, Sir A. Raikes, H. V. A. M. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Harris, Sir P. A. Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) Ramsden, Sir E. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Rankin, Sir R. Captain McEwen and Lieut.-
Colonel Harvie Watt.