HC Deb 06 July 1939 vol 349 cc1527-32

(1)At any time before the fourteenth day of September, nineteen hundred and thirty-nine, the Board of Trade may, by order, extend by two years the period during which are exercisable the powers conferred by Subsection (1) of Section two of the Act of1936, as amended by order of the Board of Trade under Sub-section (2) of that Section on the board established under that Act(hereinafter referred to as "the Spindles Board") and, if an order is made under this Sub-section, Sub-section (1) of Section four of the said Act (which enables the Spindles Board to borrow during a period of three years) shall have effect as if in the last-mentioned Sub-section for the word "three" there were substituted the word "five."

(2)The Cotton Industry Board shall have power to act as agents of the Spindles Board for the purpose of the recovery of sums payable to the Spindles Board by way of a levy under the Act of 1936 (hereinafter referred to as "the spindles levy").

(3)The Board of Trade, if satisfied that they can properly do so without disabling the Spindles Board from discharging and paying all liabilities and expenses (including the expenses of winding up) incurred or likely to be incurred by the Spindles Board, may, with the consent of the Treasury, make an order directing that Sub-section (2) of Section five of the Act of 1936 (which provides that the spindles levy payable for any year in the case of a cotton mill shall be one and one-sixth pence for each unit which, at the beginning of that year, was comprised in the spindle capacity of the spinning machinery then in the cotton mill) shall, in relation to any year beginning after the date on which the order is made, have effect as if for the reference in that Sub-section to one and one-sixth pence there were substituted a reference to such less sum as may be specified in the order.

(4)At any time before the last of the four instalments in which the spindles levy for any year is payable under Sub-section (2) of Section five of the Act of 1936 becomes payable the Board of Trade, if satisfied that they can properly do so without disabling the Spindles Board from discharging and paying all liabilities and expenses (including the expenses of winding up) incurred or likely to be incurred by the Spindles Board may, with the consent of the Treasury make an order deferring the payment of all or any of the said instalments being instalments or an instalment, as the case may be, which will become payable after the date of the order.

Any such order may at any time be revoked by a subsequent order made by the Board of Trade.

(5)Where an order deferring the payment of any instalment is made under the last preceding Sub-section, then, unless and until the order is revoked, the Spindles Board shall, not withstanding anything in Section seventeen of the Act of 1936, have neither the duty nor the power to enforce payment of that instalment.

(6)The Spindles Board may by order direct that the returns of information which owners of cotton mills are required by Sub-sections (1)and (3) of Section fourteen of the Act of 1936,to send to the Spindles Board shall be sent instead to the Cotton Industry Board; and, in relation to the period for which any such order remains in force, the said Sub-sections shall have effect subject to the modification that references therein to the Spindles Board shall, except so far as those Sub-sections authorise forms of returns to be prescribed by that board or refer to the purchasing powers of that board, be construed as references to the Cotton Industry Board.

Any such order may be revoked at any time by a subsequent order of the Spindles Board.

(7) It shall be the duty of the Cotton Industry Board to transmit forthwith to the Spindles Board any returns made to the first—mentioned board under Section fourteen of the Act of 1936, as amended by this Section; and a person shall not be guilty of an offence under this Act by reason only of a disclosure of in- formation made in pursuance of this Subsection.

(8)Sub-section (4) of Section fourteen of the Act of 1936 (which requires the Spindles Board to transmit in the form of general statistics to the advisory committee constituted under the said Act information obtained by the Spindles Board from the returns made to them under Sub-section (3) of that Section) shall have effect as if the reference in the said Subsection (4) to the returns made to them under Sub-section (3) of that Section included a reference to any returns transmitted to them under Sub-section (7) of this Section.

(9)The Spindles Board may delegate to the Cotton Industry Board the functions of the Spindles Board under Section fifteen of the Act of 1936 (which confers powers of entry and inspection on members and officers of the Spindles Board); and, in relation to any period during which the said functions remain so delegated, that Section shall have effect as if references there in to the Spindles Board included references to the Cotton Industry Board.

(10) In this Section the expression "the Act of 1936" means the Cotton Spinning Industry Act, 1936 and the expression "year" has the same meaning as in that Act.—[Mr.Stanley.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

4.6 p.m.

Mr. Stanley

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The main purpose of this Clause is to extend for another two years the period during which, under the Cotton Spinning Industry Act, 1936, the Spindles Board will be enabled to purchase redundant plant. Under the provisions of that Act the powers would expire in September of this year. Of course if the House finally approves the Bill which we are now considering, as soon as that approval is given the spinning section of the industry, under the machinery of this Bill, will be able to start a new scheme if they so desire. But it seems a cumbersome process to allow the existing power under the redundancy scheme to lapse if the industry desire to get on with the redundancy, and to make them in a few weeks go through all the machinery of the Act and start again. Therefore it was proposed in Standing Committee that I should include in this Bill this New Clause, which will enable me to make an Order extending the powers under the Cotton Spinning Industry Act for another two years. I made it plain in the Standing Committee, and I should like to do so again now, that I should exercise that power only if satisfied that it was the desire of the section that these powers should be continued.

I wish to repeat the statement I made then, that I propose immediately, should the House approve the inclusion of this Clause in the Bill, to take a ballot of the spinning section of the trade. Unless I am convinced that there is a majority of the persons actually voting and at least 66⅔of the spindles in favour of the extension of these powers, I shall not operate the power given in this New Clause. I propose to issue the ballot papers to-morrow—they are all ready—and have them returned by 21st July. It is just possible that if there is a hostile verdict by the spinning section I shall receive it before this Bill finally passes away from the hands either of this House or another place, and in that case I shall propose to delete so much of this Clause as gives me power to extend the time.

Sir Percy Harris

Under what authority will the right hon. Gentleman take the ballot? Will it have the force of law, or will it be a private ballot taken by the Minister?

Mr. Stanley

A private ballot; it is merely my way of satisfying myself that my exercise of this power is desired by the spinning section. In the new Clause there are certain other provisions which are of value. Once the Cotton Industry Board is set up it will have a certain staff and general office machinery, and it will be possible for them to do a number of things which are now done by the Spindles Board. This Clause will enable them, for instance, to act as agents of the Spindles Board for the recovery of the levies under the Act. It will also give them certain powers now used by the Spindles Board with regard to returns of information. It is intended only to prevent the duplication of machinery. Lastly, under Sub-sections (3) and (4) we take powers for the Board of Trade, with the consent of the Treasury, either to reduce the levy from the amount laid down in the Act, or in certain cases to postpone the instalments of that levy being called up during the year. This is to prevent—in the closing years of this scheme, when the expenses falling on the scheme are getting less—levies having to be raised from the industry in much greater amount than is required and, therefore, putting an unnecessary burden on them. These powers can be exercised only with the consent of the Treasury, who will satisfy themselves that the levies are being raised and that the times at which they are being raised are sufficient to make certain that the guarantee of the Exchequer will not be called upon.

4.11 p.m.

Mr. Rhys Davies

This new Clause is, of course, moved to carry out one of the several promises that the President of the Board of Trade made in Standing Committee, where we had rather protracted Debates on this very complex Measure. To that extent the Opposition will have no criticism to offer. One thing I would ask the Committee to bear in mind: The proposal of the right hon. Gentleman includes something that is peculiar to Lancashire, in that the Treasury arrange to make up any deficit that may occur in connection with these financial transactions. Lancashire is the only county in the Kingdom, and the cotton industry is the only industry that could come to the House of Common sand accept a provision of this sort inserted in a Bill. In agriculture, in the case of milk, beef, beet and barley, there is always money to be provided by the Government, but the Spindles Board are not asking a penny piece from the Treasury. It shows how well the Lancashire textile industry is managing its affairs when it is entitled to borrow £2,000,000 for this purpose and does not exceed that amount. On this side we naturally support the President of the Board of Trade in his proposal.

4.13 p.m.

Mr. Hammersley

The new Clause carries out the undertakings giving in Standing Committee. The Cotton Spinning Industry Bill of 1936, when it was discussed in this House, was discussed on terms which indicated that it should be in existence for two years, or perhaps three years. There was never any proposal that the period of time should be extended. In fact in the Standing Committee it was suggested that the period of time should be decreased. I am not suggesting that it is wrong for the President of the Board of Trade to take powers to increase the length of time during which the Spindles Board may be allowed to extend the purchasing period, but there is a danger which it is incumbent on me to point out, that if there is an absence of any incentive to the in- dustry to deal with its surplus capacity, you may find that the rate of deterioration in the industry is greater than the rate at which the surplus capacity is absorbed; and if that is so you may find a situation in which fewer and fewer mills are called upon to pay levies for dealing with more and more machinery. That is a situation which is perfectly clear to the Board of Trade and it is important that it should be pointed out before we pass this new Clause.

However, we here are not called upon to take any decision in the matter. It is for the trade itself to decide, in accordance with the ballot which my right hon. Friend has said he proposes to take immediately. He proposes to require a 66⅔ per cent. majority if he is to act on any such ballot; but 66⅔ per cent.—leaving one-third of the industry, which may be, perhaps, the most virile section of the industry, dissentient—may not be a very good majority. Having pointed that out, and having pointed out that when the Bill was introduced it was never suggested that the industry should not be considered capable of dealing with its surplus spindles properly in three years, that is all I have to say. It is important that Lancashire should deal with this question of surplus spindles as soon as possible, and that there should not be a vested interest created in favour of keeping them.

Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

Bill reported with an Amendment: as amended (in the Standing Committee and on re-committal), considered.