HC Deb 07 December 1939 vol 355 cc804-6
23. Captain Ramsay

asked the Home Secretary whether the evidence on which Mr. J. E. Thomas was arrested and detained in Wandsworth Prison was hearsay, written report, or by witness; and what steps were taken to verify such evidence before instructions were issued for his arrest?

Sir J. Anderson

It would be contrary to the public interest to disclose the nature and source of the information, which satisfied my predecessor in office that an order for this man's detention was necessary for security purposes. The main grounds for the decision are not matters of doubt or dispute, and the subsequent decision to release the man subject to a restriction order does not mean that the information was found to be erroneous.

Captain Ramsay

In view of the fact that it is the procedure of justice in this country which is at stake, and that these political prisoners are allowed neither judge nor jury nor the benefit of habeas corpus, will my right hon. Friend tell us whether they are even allowed the benefit of witnesses?

Sir J. Anderson

I think that is raised in the next question.

Captain Ramsay

This is a specific question; that is to say, whether witnesses are allowed or whether the evidence was only hearsay or written report. Will the right hon. Gentleman listen to the question if I read it? [Interruption.]

Mr. Speaker rose

—

Captain Ramsay

On a point of Order. Question 23 specifically inquires whether witnesses were called before his arrest.

Sir J. Anderson

I think that is answered in the reply to the next question.

24. Captain Ramsay

asked the Home Secretary whether the Advisory Committee which investigated the case of Mr. Thomas heard any witnesses; whether such witnesses were on behalf of Mr. Thomas or the prosecution; and whether Mr. Thomas himself was given full facilities to cross-examine the hostile witnesses and to call witnesses in his defence?

Sir J. Anderson

In accordance with the usual procedure the Advisory Committee was given all the information in my possession relating to this person's case. I am informed that the committee interrogated him and gave him every opportunity to clear up any matters which appeared to be to his prejudice. The circumstances of the case were not such as to give rise to any need for witnesses, and I understand that no witnesses were called before the committee.

Captain Ramsay

In view of the fact that there are no judge, no jury, and no witnesses, is there anything to differentiate the procedure in the Advisory Committee from the Star Chamber?

Sir J. Anderson

I think a very great deal.

Mr. Mander

Will the right hon. Gentleman give an assurance that the fact that this man is a Fascist, and is opposed to the war, will not in any way prevent him from obtaining complete justice?

Sir J. Anderson

This man will be treated in exactly the same way as anybody else and I suggest that the safeguard—and an adequate safeguard—consists in the fact that the Advisory Committee is independent of the executive Government.

Captain Ramsay

Would my right hon. Friend be satisfied with this measure of justice if, by an irony of fate, he should find himself in the dock as a political prisoner?

Sir J. Anderson

Knowing what I do of the manner in which the committee proceeds in dealing with these cases, I should be perfectly satisfied.

Captain Ramsay

Those words will be treasured by many men in this country.