§ 8. Mr. Ellis Smithasked the Minister of Labour what would be the approximate cost of the abolition of the means test and the abolition of the household means test, respectively?
§ 9. Mr. Manderasked the Minister of Labour the cost that would be involved in the abolition of the household means test?
Mr. BrownI regret that it is not possible to add anything to the information given in a reply to the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton) on 16th July, 1936, of which I am sending the hon. Members a copy.
§ Mr. DaltonSince the right hon. Gentleman has referred to an answer he gave to me on a previous occasion, may I remind him that he gave me no information at all? How does it come about that the Ministry of Labour is unable to work out a simple sum in arithmetic?
Mr. BrownThe hon. Member will recollect that in the answer which I gave him I gave formidable reasons why it could not be done, and if hon. Members will also read the answer they will see that they are not merely formidable but convincing reasons.
§ Mr. E. SmithIs it not a fact that the right hon. Gentleman said last week that if this question were put down he would give an answer? Has he considered it in the meantime? And in view of the cruel effect on our people of the means test and the relatively small amount involved, is it not time that it was reconsidered?
Mr. BrownI cannot agree with the averages of the hon. Member or with his conclusions. I think that any Government sitting on these benches would have to have a means test.
§ Mr. ManderIs it not the case that if this were a question of armaments or National Defence there would be no difficulty in providing the approximately small sum of money, and will he not, therefore, reconsider the question?
Mr. BrownOn the contrary. If the hon. Member will look at the answer I gave in 1936 he will be fully satisfied, and also if he will look at the large number of questions which have been answered in the years following.
§ Mr. LawsonIs it not a fact beyond contradiction that the administrative costs of this are infinitely higher than the actual amount which is saved, and therefore will he abolish something which is a general nuisance?
Mr. BrownI do not accept that general statement. Two things have to be taken into account with regard to money, and that is not merely the actual amount paid to those who are applicants but also the fact that if there were no means test there would be many thousands more applicants.
§ 12. Mr. Kennedyasked the Minister of Labour whether the modification or abolition of the household means test has been considered by the Unemployment Assistance Board; and whether he will take action to modify or abolish the test?
§ Mr. KennedyIn view of the small sum involved and the deep resentment felt by those concerned, will not the Minister consider the abolition of this means test?