§ 3. Mr. Arthur Hendersonasked the Prime Minister whether he will publish the conditions laid down under Article 3 of the Munich Agreement concerning the evacuation of the Sudeten territory?
§ The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs (Mr. Butler)When the conditions have been laid down by the International Commission they will no doubt be made public.
§ Mr. Wedgwood BennAre conditions to be laid down before the evacuation is complete?
§ Mr. ButlerI am sure that the right hon. Gentleman can leave that matter with perfect safety to the International Commission, who are considering it at the present moment.
§ 4. Captain Pluggeasked the Prime Minister whether, to clear up existing obscurities, he proposes to publish any document or other evidence dealing with the position of the Soviet Government in connection with the international crisis over Czechoslovakia?
§ Mr. ButlerI have nothing to add to the very clear statement which my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary made on Monday on this point, and I do not consider that any useful purpose would be served by the publication of documents.
§ 5. Mr. Cocksasked the Prime Minister whether he will inform the House as to the interpretation put by His Majesty's Government on the word "installations" in paragraph 2 of the Munich Agreement; and what items in the appendix to the Godesberg Memorandum of 23rd September are not included in this term?
§ 26. Mr. G. R. Straussasked the Prime Minister what, in the opinion of His Majesty's Government, is the definition of "installation" in Article 2 of the Munich Agreement?
§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)It is for the International Commission set up under the Munich Agreement, to interpret what should be included under the heading of "installations." In the view of His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom this term should include only permanent fixtures as distinct from movable objects.
§ Mr. CocksDo I gather from that reply that in the opinion of the Government the rolling stock of the railways—being movable objects—are not included in installations, and also goods and cattle?
§ The Prime MinisterThat is so.
§ Mr. ThorneHas the right hon. Gentleman seen the report which appeared in the newspapers last night to the effect that there is already a quarrel between the Commissioners on account of the bad translation?
§ 6. Mr. Palingasked the Prime Minister whether the British representative on the international commission has been instructed to insist that the territory left to the Czech Republic shall be economically viable?
§ Mr. ButlerThe British representative on the International Commission in Berlin will, of course, bear carefully in mind the economic needs of Czechoslovakia.
§ Mr. PalingI asked the definite question whether the British representative had been instructed to insist on this?
§ Mr. ButlerHe has been instructed to bear that point in mind.
§ Mr. PalingIn view of the fact that certain territory has been ceded to Poland since then, and that in that territory there are 7,500,000 tons of hard coal, and that Czechoslovakia will be deprived of coal, may I ask whether attention will be given to that point by our representative on the Commission, and whether he will do his best in order to try to rectify the position?
§ Mr. ButlerI am confident that our representative will bear such an important fact in mind.
§ Mr. PalingBut has the Minister taken any steps to make representations on this particular feature since the cession of Teschen territory?
§ Mr. ButlerI must have notice of that particular question.
§ Mr. LeachCan the hon. Gentleman say whether the territory will also be visible as well as viable?
§ 10. Mr. A. Hendersonasked the Prime Minister whether he has any reports from the British Minister at Prague supporting the German charges of Czech terrorism in the Sudetenland?
§ Mr. ButlerReports received from the British observers in Czechoslovakia indicate that such charges have often been greatly exaggerated.
§ 12. Mr. G. R. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether the International Commission set up under paragraph 3 of the Munich Agreement is to decide questions remitted to it by a majority vote or, if not, how differences are to be decided?
§ Mr. ButlerIt is for the International Commission to determine its own procedure, but I trust that it will be able to arrive at decisions by way of discussion and agreement, in which event the question raised by the hon. Member will not arise.
§ Mr. ButlerI think the Commission must be left to decide its own procedure, as I have described. If the spirit of the Munich Agreement persists I am sure there will be no need for anxiety.
§ Mr. DaltonIs the spirit of Munich indicated by the fact that the Czechs were left outside the door?
§ Mr. ButlerThat is not the case.
§ Mr. ManderDo I understand that no decision has been taken as to whether the procedure must be unanimous or by a majority?
§ Mr. ButlerThe hon. Member must understand what I answered in my original reply.
§ Mr. ManderIs it not the case, then, that no decision has been taken as to whether this Commission shall act by a majority or with unanimity, and is it not of the greatest importance that it should be known definitely what the procedure on this point is to be?
§ Mr. ButlerI have nothing to add to the terms of my original reply.
§ 13. Mr. Bennasked the Prime Minister whether any British military adviser was present at the Munich conference; and whether he was consulted as to the handing over intact of Czech fortifications and munitions to Germany?
§ Mr. ButlerThe answer to the first part of the question is in the negative, and the second part does not, therefore, arise.
§ 14. Mr. Bennasked the Prime Minister why it was decided to hand over the Czech defences intact, in view of the fact that they were constructed under the advice and with the assistance of French engineers, and embodied the latest design included in the Maginot Line?
§ The Prime MinisterThe right hon. Gentleman is misinformed in assuming that the whole of the Czech defences will be handed over intact. The areas to be occupied by the German troops between 1st and 7th October lie for the most part outside the Czechoslovak defences, and, pending a decision by the International Commission in Berlin, it is not possible to state what proportion of the Czechoslovak defences will come within the further areas to be occupied before 10th October. I understand, moreover, that the evacuation of guns and other movable material, from the Czechoslovak fortifications within the zones coming under German occupation is now under the consideration of the International Commission.
Miss RathboneDo His Majesty's Government intend to make any further grant to the Czech Government in compensation for the fortifications which they have abandoned at the request of His Majesty's Government?
§ The Prime MinisterI do not think that point arises out of this question.
§ 15. Mr. Bennasked the Prime Minister how many Czech hostages, including children, are held at present by the Germans; and whether the question of 313 their release concurrently with that of Sudeten Germans was discussed at Munich?
22. Mr. Edmund Harveyasked the Prime Minister whether any arrangements have been made for the release of the Czechs at present imprisoned or interned in Germany concurrently with the release of Sudeten Germans in Czechoslovakia; and whether His Majesty's Government Will use their utmost efforts to secure the speedy release of all such prisoners and detenus?
24. Miss Rathboneasked the Prime Minister whether he has taken, or proposes to take, any action to secure the release of the Czech political prisoners held in Germany as an equivalent for the release of the Sudeten German prisoners of the Czech Government, as required by the terms of the Munich Agreement; and how many such Czech prisoners there are?
§ The Prime MinisterReports have reached His Majesty's Government to the effect that certain Czech officials in frontier districts have been imprisoned in Germany, and that certain Czech residents in Germany have been held as hostages, but I can give no estimate of the numbers that may be involved. The British representative on the International Commission has been instructed to press for the release of any such prisoners and hostages.
§ Mr. BennI asked the Prime Minister whether they had been released and whether the question was raised at Munich. Could he tell me whether it was raised at Munich and whether any of them have been released?
§ The Prime MinisterIt was not discussed at Munich. I cannot say whether any of them have yet been released.
§ Mr. BennWhen the Germans were insisting on the release of the Sudetens, did it not occur to the Prime Minister to insist on the release of the Czechs?
§ The Prime MinisterI did not know there were any detained.
§ 16. Mr. Priceasked the Prime Minister whether the question of the Polish seizure of Czech territory was discussed at Munich?
§ 19. Mr. Shinwellasked the Prime Minister whether, when he confirmed his 314 promise of a territorial guarantee at Munich, he knew of the intention of the Polish Government to occupy Czech territory?
§ The Prime MinisterThe Polish Government's ultimatum demanding the immediate cession of certain territory was only delivered to the Czechoslovak Government on the evening of 30th September. The intention of the Polish Government to occupy Czechoslovak territory was not, therefore, known and could not be discussed by the representatives of the Four Powers at Munich on 29th September.
§ Mr. ShinwellDoes that mean that no communication of any kind passed between the Polish Government and His Majesty's Government on the question of the possible occupation of Teschen?
§ The Prime MinisterI must have notice of that question, but no communication reached me at Munich.
§ Mr. ManderCould the Prime Minister say whether the division of Ruthenia between Poland and Hungary was discussed at Munich at all?
§ The Prime MinisterNo, Sir.
§ 17. Mr. Priceasked the Prime Minister whether he will ask the Minister in Prague to state the approximate number of refugees who have already arrived in Czechoslovakia from the ceded areas?
27. Miss Rathboneasked the Prime Minister whether he has information as to the numbers of refugees who have already fled into the interior of Czechoslovakia before the advance of the Germans; whether he is aware that it may be impossible for the Czechoslovak Government to accept and provide for several hundred thousand Sudeten Germans belonging to the democratic parties; and whether he will consult with the Dominions as to the possibility of receiving some of them?
§ Mr. ButlerMy Noble Friend has not received any estimate of the number of refugees from the Sudeten areas to the interior of Czechoslovakia, and has asked His Majesty's Minister in Prague for a report. As regards the second and third parts of the question put by the hon. Member for the English Universities (Miss Rathbone), I would refer to an official communiquÉ issued by the Czechoslovak 315 Government on 1st October, stating that the populations of the frontier areas are not allowed to immigrate into the interior of the country and all refugees will be transported back to their place of domicile. The communiquÉ stated that precipitate action was unwise and unnecessary in view of the six months' period of option provided under the Munich Agreement and that it was the duty of every Czechoslovak citizen to remain where he was and vote in the plebiscite. The assumption in the hon. Member's question would, therefore, appear premature.
§ 18. Mr. Priceasked the Prime Minister whether, in the opinion of His Majesty's Government, Article 8 of the Munich Agreement means that Sudeten Germans who remain Czechoslovak citizens are to be exempt from military service?
§ The Prime MinisterThose Sudeten Germans who remain Czechoslovak citizens, after the final delimitation of the new frontiers of the Czechoslovak State has been completed and the arrangements for option and transfer of populations laid down in Article VIII of the Munich Agreement have been executed, will presumably be subject to the same obligations as other citizens of the Republic, including that of any military service that may be obligatory.
§ 20. Mr. Shinwellasked the Prime Minister what is the estimated number of Czechs who will be left in the surrendered territory?
§ Mr. ButlerIt is impossible to make any such estimate until the final determination of the frontiers has been carried out by the International Commission, in accordance with Article VI of the Munich Agreement and until it is known to what extent the right of option, provided for in Article VII, will be exercised.
§ Mr. ShinwellWas no reference made in the conversations between the right hon. Gentleman and the German Chancellor to the need for protection of persons who were likely to remain in Sudeten territory?
§ Mr. ButlerI am afraid that question goes beyond the question which I was asked, which was merely whether I could give the estimated number of Czechs who would be left in the territory.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not necessary and important to understand the position of those people?
§ Mr. ButlerI am afraid I should want notice of that.
§ 21. Mr. Shinwellasked the Prime Minister the estimated value of the plants and installations to be handed over to Germany by Czechoslovakia; whether there is any precedent in any Treaty for the surrender of territory, etc., without any corresponding adjustment of the public debt; and what instructions have been given to the British representatives on the International Commission in reference to this matter?
§ The Prime MinisterAs regards the first part of the question, it is impossible to make any estimate until the final determination of the frontiers has been carried out by the International Commission. A special sub-committee of the Commission has now been set up to deal with economic and financial questions and His Majesty's Representative will bear in mind the desirability of making satisfactory arrangements when the matters referred to by the hon. Member come up for discussion.
§ Mr. ShinwellWhat was the nature of the instructions to the British representatives on the Commission?
§ The Prime MinisterI think that question is answered by the reply which I have given.
§ 37. Mr. Palingasked the Secretary of State for War whether he can state approximately the number of new divisions made available for the German army by the cession of the Sudeten territory?
§ The Secretary of State for War (Mr. Hore-Belisha)Until the final determination of the frontiers has been carried out by the International Commission in accordance with Article VI of the Munich Agreement, it is impossible to give even an approximate estimate.
§ Mr. PalingDoes the right hon. Gentleman mean to tell us that his Intelligence Staff has not informed him of the numbers likely to be added to Hitler's Army because of this transfer? Has not a statement been published that it is likely to be about 400,000?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaMy Intelligence Staff is too intelligent to proceed on such an assumption.
§ Mr. PalingAm I not right in assuming that it is so intelligent that the Prime Minister asked its advice before he went to Germany?
§ Mr. ManderMay I ask the Secretary of State whether the number of divisions, whatever it may be, is to be counted for us or against us?
§ 38. Mr. A. Hendersonasked the Secretary of State for War whether he can give particulars and the number and size of guns, and the nature, quantity, and value of munitions of war surrendered under the Munich Agreement to the German Government?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaMy Department is informed that the Czechoslovak Government have been unable to estimate, even approximately, the value of guns and other munitions which may ultimately be involved in the transfer of ceded territory, pending delimitation of the new frontier and determination of the amount of, material which can be evacuated.
§ Mr. BennDoes the right hon. Gentleman mean to say that he has not been informed of that by the Prague Government, in view of the fact that an official, or semi-official, statement has been issued pricing these goods at from £25,000,000 to £30,000,000?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI mean to say what I said. Of course it is impossible to put a figure upon the amount which will be lost, if any, until the transfer has taken place.
§ Sir Archibald SinclairWhat does the right hon. Gentleman mean by "if any"? Does he suggest that the International Commission will try to get some of these guns back? What does he mean by "if any"?
§ Mr. Hore-BelishaI have answered the question in its original form. Until it is known what, if any—and that is the usual phrase—has been transferred, it is impossible to estimate its value.