HC Deb 15 November 1938 vol 341 cc670-3
31. Miss Wilkinson

asked the Secretary of State for War how many county commandants have been appointed in the Auxiliary Territorial Service; how many of these are titled; in how many have the qualifications possessed by their husbands been taken into consideration; and how many have professionial or organising training?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

Fifty-nine chief or senior commandants have been appointed, on the recommendation of the presidents of the Territorial Army County Associations, who assessed their qualifications. Twenty-one are titled.

Miss Wilkinson

That is not an answer to my question.

Mr. Hore-Belisha

The other part of the hon. Lady's question is whether they are appointed on the qualifications of their husbands? I think not.

Mr. Anstruther-Gray

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that the possession of a husband is a qualification which greatly adds to the usefulness of any lady?

Miss Wilkinson

While appreciating the testimonial of the hon. Member to himself, may I ask whether the Minister thinks that a proportion of 40 per cent. of officers chosen from a very narrow social set is a wise thing in a force which is expected to be a national force, and whether he expects the qualifications of a good Mayfair hostess are the sort of qualifications needed for posts of this kind?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I think grave injustice is done to these public-spirited ladies who are giving their time to the service of the country to say that they suffer from some disqualification. These ladies are being appointed all over the country and are in no sense representative of one social order of society.

Viscountess Astor

May I ask if the hon. Member for Jarrow (Miss Wilkinson) is doing all she can to get Labour women into this service?

Miss Wilkinson

Not while they are in the hands of a social set like yours.

32. Miss Wilkinson

asked the Secretary of State for War, why there is no space provided or question asked on the Auxiliary Territorial Service enlistment form for the applicant to state her present occupation, or particulars of training; and, whether, as it is imposible to make use of applicants' abilities if no record is taken of any of their qualifications, space for this information will in future be provided on the form of application?

Mr. Hore-Belisha

In the enrolment form for members of the Auxiliary Territorial Service there is a space provided for the applicant to state her vocation, and to give particulars of "any other training or knowledge which would be of value to the nation in an emergency."

Miss Wilkinson

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there are two sets of forms at the War Office, because the form which I obtained in the ordinary way three days ago contains no question whatsoever asking what the applicant's qualifications are? What is the use of the right hon. Gentleman coming here and saying things which are not true?

Mr. Speaker

I think the hon. Lady should withdraw that statement.

Miss Wilkinson

Will the right hon. Gentleman kindly tell me—

Mr. Speaker

Before she continues, the hon. Lady must withdraw her statement.

Mr. Thorne

Can you, Sir, guarantee that every Minister tells the truth in this House?

Mr. Speaker

I cannot guarantee anything.

Miss Wilkinson

Out of respect to you, Mr. Speaker, I am willing to do anything you ask me to do, but I only say that it is a little unfortunate if we are to have statements made which are not borne out by the printed forms of the War Office.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady knows that it is not right to accuse a Minister or any hon. Member of saying what is untrue.

Miss Wilkinson

But why do they do it?

Mr. T. Johnston

May I direct your attention to the fact that an hon. Member opposite only a few moments ago accused the hon. Member for Bishop Auckland (Mr. Dalton) of making a false statement?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Lady must withdraw her remark.

Miss Wilkinson

Out of respect for you, Mr. Speaker, I will withdraw the remark, but it is only out of respect for you.

At the end of Questions—

Mr. Hore-Belisha

I regret to trouble the House with a purely personal matter, but the hon. Lady the Member for Jarrow (Miss Wilkinson) asked me a Question, No. 32, and in answering that question I said: In the enrolment form for members of the Auxiliary Territorial Service there is a space provided for the applicant to state her vocation, and to give particulars of ' any other training or knowledge which would be of value to the nation in an emergency.' The hon. Lady said that, in giving that answer, I was stating what was not true. I have sent for a copy of Army Form E.511, which is the form of enrolment in the Auxiliary Territorial Service, and it appears that the answer that I gave is exactly true. I think there must have been some misapprehension in the hon. Lady's mind when she said that I was stating what was not true. I am quite prepared to believe that she had in mind some other form, but the form about which I was speaking, and about which she asked me the question, does contain the words to which I referred in answering her question.

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