HC Deb 27 May 1938 vol 336 cc1598-9

12.35 p.m.

Colonel Sandeman Allen

I beg to move, in page 11, line 34, after "road," to insert: to whom Part I of this Act applies. It is not clear to whom this Clause is intended to apply. It is supposed to apply to A and B licence holders only, and not to ancillary users. The words "engaged by way of trade" might be thought, however, to include ancillary users, and therefore I suggest that the words which I propose are necessary in order to make it clear that the Clause applies only to A and B holders.

12.36 p.m.

Mr. E. Brown

The wider definition is considered necessary in order to include in the Bill arrangements which would otherwise be outside its scope. For instance, there is the case of various classes of out-workers. Employment usually, but not always, connotes a contract of service, and the suggested definition would be too narrow for the purposes of the Bill just as it is for the purposes of the Trade Boards Act. There might be arrangements for employment which did not amount to contracts of service, but which ought to be covered. If a worker drives a vehicle or performs any of the work in connection with it which is within the scope of the Bill, the definition in the Schedule would cover that and I think the Committee and the hon. and Gallant Member will agree that it should be covered in the Bill. It is for that purpose that we have the wider definition in Clause 9.

Mr. H. G. Williams

What is meant by "transport of goods by road"? Does it mean the transport of goods on a public highway? Suppose a vehicle is travelling inside the grounds of a large works to which there is no public right of access, conveying goods from one part of the factory to another, is it covered by these words?

Mr. Brown

The answer to the second part of the hon. Member's question is "No."

Mr. Benjamin Smith

If this Amendment were accepted, would it not mean saying to the owner of a vehicle who was employed by a firm that he must pay himself the statutory wages. We do not see why the owner-driver as such should be brought within these terms.

Colonel Sandeman Allen

In view of the Minister's explanation, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause ordered to stand part of the Bill.