HC Deb 29 June 1938 vol 337 cc1877-88
5. Mr. Mander

asked the Prime Minister the date on which the French frontier was closed and the date on which it is proposed that the Portuguese frontier will be closed and the sea control scheme put into operation?

Mr. Butler

As I have previously informed the House, observation on both the Franco-Spanish and the Portuguese-Spanish frontiers has for a long time been in suspense. In so far, therefore, as the observation scheme is not in operation on either the French or Portuguese frontiers, the responsibility for ensuring the fulfilment of France's and Portugal's obligations under the Non-Intervention Agreement rests solely with the authorities of those countries. The date on which observation on both land frontiers will be restored, and the sea observation scheme in its new form put into operation, will be that on which the International Commissions appointed for the purpose of supervising the withdrawal scheme report that they are ready to begin the counting of the foreign volunteers.

Mr. Mander

Is the closing of the frontier on the Pyrenees entirely a matter for the French Government and nothing to do with non-intervention observers at the present time?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Mender

Is not even that arrangement a grossly unjust one in view of the situation on the Portuguese frontier?

6. Mr. Mander

asked the Prime Minister whether any control over aircraft arriving by air in Spain will be in operation during the visit of the counting commission, and by what means equality of treatment will be obtained in view of the fact that the supplies of one side arrive by sea only?

Mr. Butler

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply which I gave him on 1st June. The revised observation scheme of the Non-Intervention Committee which will be put into force when the commissions are ready to start counting, is a balanced plan designed to secure equality of control on the land and sea frontiers and is accepted as such by all the countries parties to the Non-Intervention Agreement.

Mr. Mander

Yes, but does not this so-called balanced plan permit aircraft to arrive by air in unlimited quantities? Is there any control of arrivals by air?

Mr. Butler

If the hon. Member will refer to my previous answer, he will see that I cannot say in advance what details on this subject the plan will contain, but the Non-Intervention Committee have given this difficult subject the attention it deserves.

Mr. Mander

Will the Minister be good enough to give a specific reply in connection with this new scheme? Is there going to be any control whatever over aircraft arriving by air?

Mr. Butler

I cannot say in advance what the plan will contain, but I understand the Non-Intervention Committee have given very close consideration to this scheme with the object of finding some remedy.

Mr. Mender

But have they found one?

Duchess of Atholl

Will my hon. Friend give an assurance that, if the Non-Intervention Committee think it right that there should be some control of the air, they will not bring other forms of control into operation until they have a satisfactory scheme for controlling arrivals by air?

Mr. Butler

The Noble Lady may rest assured of the importance which the Non-Intervention Committee attach to this particular aspect of the control plan, and the best thing is to wait and see the plan in toto.

10. Mr. Mander

asked the Prime Minister if he will state the names of the countries with which, in the Government's opinion, a danger of war may arise through the use of force against General Franco by Great Britain to protect British sailors and ships to Spain?

The Prime Minister (Mr. Chamberlain)

No, Sir.

Mr. Mander

Is not the House entitled to know what countries are in the Government's mind—Portugal, Paraguay, Venezuela? What country is it?

Mr. H. G. Williams

Has my right hon. Friend ever seen quite such a mischievous question?

ii. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Prime Minister whether he can make any statement in regard to the bombing of the British merchant ships "Farnham" and "Arlon" on 27th June; and what action he has taken in the matter?

19. Mr. Vyvyan Adams

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that on 27th June two further ships flying the British flag were bombed by insurgent aircraft; that these attacks caused casualties among the crews, including British nationals, and that the "Arlon" is, in consequence, a total loss; and whether he will now inform General Franco that, unless these attacks cease forthwith, His Majesty's Government will resort to reprisals or other retaliatory action?

The Prime Minister

According to my Noble Friend's information, the harbour of Valencia was raided at about 6 a.m. on 27th June by aircraft flying high, and the British tanker "Arlon" was hit and set on fire. The steamship "Farnham" was struck in a raid on the Port of Alicante at about 7 a.m. on the same morning. As regards the question put by my hon. Friend the Member for West Leeds (Mr. V. Adams) His Majesty's Government propose, as the House is aware, to consult with Sir Robert Hodgson on the whole question of attacks on British shipping.

Mr. Strauss

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether British lives were lost, as was reported by the Press agencies, and meanwhile, whether any action whatever is going to be taken to protect our nationals carrying out their duties?

The Prime Minister

My present information is that some lives—three, I think—were lost in the "Farnham."

Mr. Adams

When Sir Robert Hodgson has reported, do the Government intend to evolve a policy to protect our shipping proceeding on its lawful occasions?

The Prime Minister

I think we must wait until Sir Robert Hodgson returns.

Mr. A. V. Alexander

May I ask, first, whether the right hon. Gentleman can give the date of Sir Robert Hodgson's return, and secondly, whether the Press report is correct that His Majesty's Government are making immediate representations to the Italian Government, through the Ambassador in Rome, on the question of the bombing of British ships?

The Prime Minister

With regard to the second question, I have not seen any such report. With regard to the first, the date of Sir Robert Hodgson's return is to-morrow.

Mr. Alexander

Is the subject matter of the report correct?

The Prime Minister

I think I would prefer to see the report first.

Mr. Attlee

Surely, the Prime Minister can answer, as a matter of fact, whether or not representations are being made in Rome, without being in possession of what a newspaper thinks about it?

The Prime Minister

The Opposition are always trying to trap me into making statements.

Mr. Attlee

The Prime Minister accuses us of always trying to trap him, but is it not perfectly clear that the Government are always trying to evade giving straight answers?

15. Mr. Cary

asked the Prime Minister whether he will inform the House of the actual number of British merchant ships which have been molested in Spanish waters during the progress of the Spanish civil war; and, further whether he will state the proportion of the total number of ships which have been attacked by seacraft and those which have been attacked by aircraft?

Mr. Butler

I am aware of no case of a British ship being attacked by naval vessels within territorial waters. Particulars of the detention of certain ships off the north coast of Spain were given in reply to the hon. Member for Romford (Mr. Parker) on 8th December last. Otherwise 43 British ships have been involved in attacks by aircraft in Spanish territorial waters.

Mr. Cary

Will my hon. Friend circulate in the OFFICIAL REPORT the name of each ship attacked, the name of the company owning and operating the ship, the nature of the cargo and whether the attack was made inside or outside territorial waters?

Mr. Butler

I will certainly consider my hon. Friend's suggestion and see whether I can give him the particulars for which he asks.

Mr. Macquisten

Will he also ascertain whether any ships are being sent into Spanish territorial waters by responsible British shipowners who have respect for the lives of their men?

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

Can the hon. Gentleman assure the House that the customary protest has been sent to General Franco in respect of each of these attacks?

Mr. Butler

The House will remember that we have always differentiated between attacks which we regarded as deliberate, and other attacks which we had no reason to believe were deliberate.

16. Mr. Thurtle

asked the Prime Minister whether he has now received any report from Spain on the allegation made recently that a premature relief of Castellon was staged by the Republican authorities of that town and that, as a result, 2,000 of the civil population who were welcoming what they thought were General Franco's troops were shot down by the Republican troops; and, if not, will he cause prompt inquiries to be made?

Mr. Butler

His Majesty's Government are not prepared to take upon themselves the duty of confirming or denying such reports.

Mr. Thurtle

Is the Minister aware that this allegation has been made in this House by one of his own supporters; is he also aware that it is a grave reflection upon the Republican troops of Spain; and does he not think that, in the circumstances, he owes it to Republican Spain to make some inquiry into this matter?

Mr. Butler

I am afraid that I cannot take it upon myself to alter the terms of my original reply. We cannot take upon ourselves the duty of confirming or denying such reports.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Has the hon. Gentleman received any such report from the British representative in Spain?

Mr. Butler

I have seen no such report.

17. Mr. Arthur Henderson

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that the Italian Government, through their Chargé d'Affaires in Paris, have conveyed a warning to the French Foreign Office for communication to the Spanish Government that if an attack should be made by Spanish aircraft on Italian vessels in Spanish insurgent ports effective and prompt action will be taken against the aircraft concerned; and whether His Majesty's Government will represent to the Italian Government that they would regard any attacks on Spanish Government aircraft as constituting Italian intervention?

Mr. Butler

The answer to the first part is in the negative: the second part of the question does not, therefore, arise.

Mr. Henderson

Have not the Italian Government made it clear that they intend to use their armed forces to resist any attacks on their merchant ships by Spanish Government aeroplanes; and why cannot His Majesty's Government adopt the same policy with regard to attacks on British merchantmen?

Mr. Butler

The hon. Member's question refers to Spanish insurgent ports, and, as I say, I have received no confirmation of this report.

Mr. Kirkwood

If the hon. Gentleman does receive confirmation of such a report, will he take like action on behalf of British seamen?

20. Mr. Cocks

asked the Prime Minister whether any soundings on the possibility of bringing about a truce in Spain have been made at Rome; and whether any reply on the subject has been received from the Italian Government?

Mr. Butler

I have nothing to add to the reply which I gave on 27th June to a question by the hon. Member for North Aberdeen (Mr. Garro Jones).

Mr. Cocks

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the answer to which he refers consisted of meaningless generalities—

Mr. Speaker

I cannot allow a supplementary question of that kind to be put.

21. Mr. Cocks

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that war material and men have recently been despatched to General Franco from Germany, passing over the Brenner Pass and being shipped from Genoa; whether he can give the House particulars of this assistance to the Spanish insurgents; and whether he will bring the matter to the attention of the Non-Intervention Committee?

Mr. Butler

I have no confirmation of this report. The last part of the question does not, therefore, arise.

Mr. Cocks

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that this information is in possession of the Foreign Office?

Mr. Butler

If I had the information, I would not say that I had no confirmation of the report.

Mr. Cocks

Will the hon. Gentleman examine the information in the possession of the Foreign Secretary?

22. Duchess of Atholl

asked the Prime Minister whether he is aware that in the hills surrounding Algeciras more than 20 guns have been mounted, including three guns of more than 10-inch, a number of long-range 5/'s, and several heavy howitzers, so placed that they could drop their shells in Gibraltar, but yet are invisible from the highest point on the rock; that there are nine naval-type guns of about 4-inch on the Punta Carnero, at least one 15-inch gun on a high peak near Alcala de las Gazules, nearly 21 miles inland, while some 45 guns, ranging from 6-inch to 15-inch, have been installed near Ceuta, in Spanish Morocco; and what action does he propose to take?

Mr. Butler

I cannot confirm the statements in this question from the information in my possession, but naturally the military situation of Gibraltar and any alterations of the conditions which affect it are constantly reviewed by His Majesty's Government and their advisers.

Duchess of Atholl

Seeing that this subject is of such importance as the answer obviously implies, will the hon. Gentleman make special investigation to find whether this information is correct?

Mr. Butler

I realise the importance which the Noble Lady attaches to the question, and I assure her that the matter is receiving consideration.

Mr. V. Adams

Do not the Government attach importance to the matter?

24. Mr. Noel-Baker

asked the Prime Minister on how many occasions demands have been made by His Majesty's Government to General Franco that disciplinary action should be taken against members of his armed forces responsible for attacks on British ships in Spanish waters?

Mr. Butler

The representations made by His Majesty's Government to the Burgos authorities in connection with the attacks on British ships have varied in accordance with the circumstances of the attack. In the case of the bombing of the steamship "Thorpehall" at Valencia on 24th May His Majesty's Government informed the Burgos authorities that they must demand an immediate inquiry into this attack and strong disciplinary action against the crew of the offending aircraft; Sir Robert Hodgson was, moreover, recently requested to inquire whether this disciplinary action had yet been taken. In other cases where the attack appears to have been deliberate, His Majesty's Government have demanded an immediate inquiry into the circumstances.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Are we to understand that after 43 attacks on British ships one request has been made for disciplinary action against those who have made such attacks?

Mr. Butler

Similar action has been taken in other cases, as the hon. Member will see if he refers to the latter part of my answer.

Mr. Gallacher

In the event of no disciplinary action being taken, what do the Government propose to do?

Mr. Dalton

Has a reply been received to any of these demands?

Mr. Speaker

rose

Mr. Dalton

May I submit, with great respect, that my supplementary question is in order?

Mr. Speaker

We cannot have a Debate on every one of these questions.

26. Mr. Wedgwood Benn

asked the Prime Minister whether, during the negotiation of the Italian agreement, any assurance was asked for as to the bombing of British ships by Italian aeroplanes?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir.

Mr. Benn

In view of the fact that the hon. Gentleman told us on 28th March that 26 ships had been attacked, does he say that no reference was made to that fact in the conversations preliminary to the Italian agreement?

Mr. Butler

Yes, Sir.

Mr. Benn

Then may I ask the Prime Minister whether this question of the bombing of British ships by the Italians was raised by Lord Perth with Count Ciano yesterday?

The Prime Minister

I should like to have notice of that question.

Mr. Benn

May I ask the Prime Minister whether any instructions were given to Lord Perth to raise this question with Count Ciano?

The Prime Minister

I should like to have notice of that question also.

27. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of his apprehension that direct measures for the protection of British ships in Spanish waters might lead to an extension of the war, His Majesty's Government's representative on the Non-Intervention Committee will invite that body to bring joint pressure to bear on the insurgent authorities to stop these bombings?

Mr. Butler

My Noble Friend does not consider that such a step would produce the results desired.

Mr. Strauss

Have the Government considered approaching any individual members of the Non-Intervention Committee asking them to take such steps?

Mr. Butler

I should require notice of that question. I have answered the question on the Paper.

28. Miss Rathbone

asked the Prime Minister whether a pension will be paid to the dependants of the British nonintervention officer recently killed off the Spanish coast; and, if so, by whom?

Mr. Butler

I am informed that arrangements have been made by the Non-Intervention Board to provide for the dependants of this officer.

Miss Rathbone

By whom will the payment be made, by the Italian Government who are responsible for the killing, or will it be made out of the funds in the possession of the Non-Intervention Committee, or by whom?

Mr. Butler

I cannot accept the statement made by the hon. Lady, but in answer to her question, the funds will come from the Non-Intervention Board.

Duchess of Atholl

Will there be similar provision for the dependants of observation officers who lose their lives in this work?

Mr. Butler

I think the Noble Lady can rely on the Non-Intervention Board taking the necessary steps in the case of any unfortunate case of this sort.

35. Duchess of Atholl

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he is aware that French destroyers lie daily near Spanish Republican ports when French merchantment are lying in these ports; and will be give orders for British destroyers to lie at such ports whenever British merchantmen are there, as it has been found that the presence of destroyers has some effect in preventing bombing of ships?

The First Lord of the Admiralty (Mr. Duff Cooper)

I have no information that French destroyers adopt the practice suggested by the Noble Lady. Nor have I any reason to suppose that if they were to do so, it would produce the effect suggested. The answer to the last part of the question is, therefore, in the negative.

Duchess of Atholl

Will the right hon. Gentleman make inquiries as to whether this system is adopted?

Mr. Cooper

I have made inquiries.

37. Mr. Noel-Baker

asked the First Lord of the Admiralty what was the name of His Majesty's ship which recently conducted the steamship "Stan-croft" from Valencia to Gibraltar; and what instructions were given to its commanding officer concerning his mission?

Mr. Cooper

The "Stancroft" was not actually escorted all the way from Valencia to Gibraltar, but a boarding party from His Majesty's Ship "Hyperion" was placed on board with instructions to take her with cargo intact to Gibraltar following the Nyon route.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Are we to understand that British warships went into a Spanish port and, in Spanish territorial waters, ordered the "Stancroft" out with a cargo which belonged to the Spanish Government?

Mr. Cooper

That is an entirely different question from that on the Paper.

Mr. Noel-Baker

May I ask whether the commander had instructions to order the "Stancroft" to leave Valencia and to proceed to Gibraltar?

Mr. Cooper

That is a different question. The hon. Gentleman asked what was the name of the ship which conducted the "Stancroft" to Gibraltar. He did not ask what were the circumstances. He also asked what instructions were given to the commanding officer concerning his mission. A boarding party from H.M.S. "Hyperion" was placed on board, and I have given their instructions, which were to take the "Stancroft" with cargo intact to Gibraltar.

Mr. Noel-Baker

That is to say that a British warship was instructed to order the "Stancroft" to leave Valencia with a cargo belonging to the Spanish Government, and we took that action in Spanish territorial waters?

Mr. George Griffiths

Where are we getting to?