HC Deb 22 June 1938 vol 337 cc1117-39

4.20 p.m.

Mr. David Adams

I beg to move, in page r, line 19, to leave out "increased," and to insert "reduced."

Before moving this Amendment, may I ask, Captain Bourne, whether I may be allowed at the same time to deal with my subsequent Amendment, in line 20, to leave out "ninepence," and to insert "sevenpence"?

The Deputy-Chairman

It is obvious that, if the hon. Member's first Amendment were rejected, the second Amendment would no longer be called, but I think it might be for the convenience of the Committee if we took a rather wide discussion on this Amendment, on the understanding that the arguments would not be repeated when I put the Question, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill." I think it would be a pity to narrow the discussion down to this actual Amendment itself.

Mr. Adams

Thank you, Captain Bourne. My hon. Friends and I are taking a step directly in opposition to the views expressed by the Government in the Finance Bill. We challenge, on public grounds, the policy which the Government propose and suggest that, instead of an increase in the Petrol Duty, there should be a diminution of it. We say, not with any desire to obtain anything in the nature of a party advantage, if that were possible, but with a full and proper sense of public obligation in this matter, that we desire a reversal of the Government's policy with regard to taxation of this sort. The taxation upon petrol is higher than ever before. It certainly was in existence before the War, but the Excise Duty was removed in 1919 and the Customs Duty in 1921. There was, therefore, a period at all events, perhaps in better and wiser days, in our judgment, when there was no such taxation. It was revived by the right hon. Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), when Chancellor of the Exchequer, as a duty on hydrocarbon oil, and as part of the financial arrangements associated with the derating proposals of the Government, and, as the Committee is probably aware, the duty was twice increased by Mr., later Lord, Snowden, in 1931.

We observe that the policy that is now being pursued is contrary to the declared Government policy as expressed in the Finance Bill itself, because the Government are making an additional allowance, towards the wear and tear of machinery equal to a grant of £3,250,000, the purport of that being that industrial machinery throughout the country should not be weakened or impaired. We agree that that is a sound proposition, if the end sought can be achieved, but in the petrol tax we have a reversion of such an attitude, inasmuch as we declare that this is a serious tax upon industry, that it adds to the cost of motoring in all its aspects, and that so costly is it to-day, with the horse-power tax and other forms of taxation, and particularly petrol charges, that there are many persons who utilise their private motor cars only at week-ends. This is one of the main factors in making motoring a costly pastime, and as a result of that the Government are shutting out from the use of the private motor car a very large proportion of our population; they are virtually shutting out the working classes. I declare that this policy is undoubtedly closing a very vast and hitherto untapped market for British motor cars, and that if we could reach a stage, which we hope to do some day, in which the petrol tax was abolished and in which the horse-power tax went the same way, these two factors themselves would have a very large influence in making motoring available to the masses of the people.

In the United States of America the conditions are deliberately made easy for the motorist by the Government, the maximum tax upon petrol being four cents, or twopence, at any time; and I have occasion personally to know that any suggestion that the tax should be increased or any attempt in the direction of increasing the cost of motoring in that country would be strongly resisted, not only by the Government, but by all responsible people in the United States. The result of that position is that motoring is looked upon as one of the normal enjoyments, functions, entertainments, and sources of pleasure in the United States. It is interesting to note that Herr Hitler, in a declaration some little time ago, said that the totalitarian State of which he was the head would, in the process of time, be able to bring motoring within the reach of all sections of the German people; and in Russia there is an effective movement taking place for the production of cheap cars, and the preservation of cheapness as affecting motoring will place the Russian people on the whole in a position to enjoy this pastime.

I said that this tax was a contributory factor affecting the export sales of British motor cars. The petrol tax and the horsepower tax have forced upon this country the production of the small car, which is, in my judgment, not comparable in comfort and convenience with the larger models, but the British people are forced, by reason of this taxation, to content themselves with these lesser cars, which are unknown in the United States and unknown in most of our Dominions and Dependencies. I assert that the policy which the Government have pursued has caused a loss to this country, inasmuch as we do not export these small cars. They are quite useless abroad, and, as I say, they are almost unknown in our Dominions and Colonies. A friend of mine who has come from the Sudan tells me that in an outlying area chiefly under British control, where the population is only between 300 and 350, there were 30 motor cars, not one of which was of British origin. The fact that we in this country are largely producing small cars means considerable loss in material, in technical skill and labour as compared with the production of larger cars in the United States. Economists would say as to the incidence of the tax that it is steeply regressive and penalises the poorer motorist out of all proportion to the value of his car. That statement will probably not be controverted because in the "Economist" there was an estimate that for a car costing £200, the average cost of petrol, oil and maintenance would be about 31 per cent. That is a heavier percentage than on a large and more costly car.

I would not be in order in arguing the question of the justice of the tax as between motorist and motorist, but it seems to me that some case might be presented for a properly graded tax, if the tax must be continued, upon horsepower or other means, so that there should not be this discriminatory tax between motorists which undoubtedly prevails. We have by our policy impaired our export trade, while as a nation we are utilising the small and relatively indifferent car so far as convenience and power are concerned owing to the penalties imposed upon motoring. The industry has been hampered because there is a vast market among the working classes which could have been catered for but for the heavy taxation. The difference in this respect between this country and the United States is not due to any disparity in wage standards, but is due to the fact that motoring in that country has been encouraged as an instrument for enjoyment and for the preservation of the public health. It is encouraged as a deliberate policy so that it shall be within reach of the masses of the people. I admit that in the United States there are greater facilities than we enjoy in accessibility to mountains, forests, lakes and rivers. Many thousands of square miles everywhere are free to the American common people. If we had cheaper motoring within reach of the masses of the people we would have that advantage, together with a larger and more profitable industry, and an industry which was capable of exporting its wares abroad because it would produce a larger type of car. It would also bring within reach of the people the great reservoir of health from which they are admittedly excluded to-day.

4.36 p.m.

Mr. H. G. Williams

Although I find myself in a considerable measure of sympathy with the hon. Member for Consett (Mr. David Adams), I do not propose to follow him into the Lobby if he divides. It is unfortunate that in this country we keep distinct the questions of expenditure and taxation. If we were not spending so much it would not be necessary to raise the tax. I must not develop that argument, but I can, in passing, point out that taxation is the sequel to expenditure. It is only reasonable to point out how oppressively high this particular tax has become. When petrol is landed at our ports it is worth about 3d. per gallon. On that is piled a tax of 9d., equivalent to an ad valorem duty of 300 per cent. The subsequent costs are reasonable. I am not one of those who think that we are charged a high price. The distribution of petrol is remarkably efficient, and petrol is ultimately placed at our disposal efficiently and economically. Nevertheless this tax of 9d. is almost half of the retail price, which would be much higher but for the fortunate fact that the heavy increases of taxation have taken place here during a period when petrol has been in over-supply, and there has been a glut. Largely owing to the lack of prosperity in the United States, the demand for petrol has not grown as was anticipated, and crude petroleum is very cheap. The time may come when it will jump violently and then we shall really feel the burden of this taxation. The Chancellor has been lucky, and possibly he had some anticipatory notice, because since the date on which he imposed the extra penny there has been a fall, so that we are bearing an extra burden of only one halfpenny a gallon as compared with the price before the Budget.

I do not know whether hon. Members realise the magnitude of the total burden of taxation on motor transport in relation to other aspects of the industry. This year the Chancellor is proposing to acquire £94,000,000 by means of the petrol tax and the motor vehicle duties. That is a greater sum than people will pay for all the motor cars they buy this year, so that if the Chancellor abolished the motor vehicle duties and the petrol tax and claimed a tax on each vehicle when it was sold, he would have to impose a tax of 100 per cent., or rather more. I do not know of any industry or occupation, except the consumption of alcoholic liquor, where one is met with such a huge impost before one commences to indulge in one's pastime. As far as I can make out, the total value of motor cars, private and commercial vehicles, manufactured in this country is something under f £100,000,000, and on that we impose taxation of 100 per cent.

I asked a friend of mine engaged in commercial transport for some figures. He told me that the average price of a double-decker bus is £1,730. These vehicles, which are looked after much more carefully than any of us could afford to look after our private cars, have a long life. They average about 35,000 miles a year, and in the case of this company have a life of 250,000 miles, which means about seven years. They do about 7.3 miles to the gallon. Such a bus during its life will use 34,000 gallons of petrol. The tax on that amount is £1,284. The vehicle is taxed at about £70 per year, so that it pays £490 in its seven years' life. Such a vehicle, therefore, will pay during its life in tax on itself and on the fuel consumed £1,774, or £44 more than its original cost. I wonder what our friends the railway companies would say if, whenever, they built a locomotive, they had to hand over to the Chancellor a sum equal to the capital cost of it before they could run it. The railway interests might reply that they had to provide their own tracks. It is rather interesting to make a comparison with the motorist.

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon. Gentleman is getting rather far from the subject of hydrocarbon oils.

Mr. Williams

I agree, but I was trying to deal with the grievance which the motorist has. I remember seeing with some amusement in 1928 a poster in which the motorists were urged to vote for a tax on petrol. The poster was issued by the Automobile Association and urged a tax on petrol and not a tax on the vehicle. I was a junior Minister at the time and knew what was happening, and I could not help laughing because I knew the motorists were going to have the tax on petrol without the consolation of the vehicle duty being taken away. The petrol tax has never been hypothecated. It was restored by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill) for the purpose of financing the de-rating of industrial hereditaments and agricultural land. The motor vehicle duty was hypothecated for a time in the Road Fund, but the same right hon. Gentleman diverted part of it, and ultimately the whole of it was diverted, I think rightly. It is wrong to have a tax hypothecated.

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon. Gentleman cannot pursue that point.

Mr. Williams

I was about to relate the taxation on petrol to the large burden which is cast on the motoring industry. I agree that the line I was developing would be more appropriate on Second Reading, and I will not pursue it because I am reluctant to trespass on the Rules of Order. This burden, now approaching £60,000,000 a year, is a very heavy one. Hon. Members who drive cars and keep a record of their petrol consumption will be amazed to find what a large proportion of the cost of running a motor car is the cost of petrol. The hon. Member for Consett was, I think, correct when he said that the high cost of petrol prevents a large number of people of moderate incomes from indulging in what he called the pastime of motoring. Most people are not perturbed at the cost of buying a car, because a second-hand car can be bought very cheaply; what worries them is the cost of operation, and in that cost the tax on petrol is a very large item.

I am saying this not for the purpose of voting against the Chancellor, because he has to balance his Budget. The time to deal with the situation is earlier in the Session, when we vote for Bills which impose new burdens. My remarks are not made in the hope of persuading the Chancellor to make any change, because I know that he cannot, but it is only right that he should realise that this new impost has given rise to a great deal of indignation. In common with other hon. Members I have received a great many communications from quite sober-minded people protesting against the height to which this tax has now risen, and only by giving utterance to our views on the subject plainly this year can we hope that the Chancellor will pursue such a course that when he introduces his Budget next year he will not put a further burden upon this essential commodity in modern civilisation. It is in that sense, and not in any other sense, that I have sought to occupy the attention of the Committee, and I am sorry that inadvertently, in seeking to give illustrations of the nature of the burden, I should have wandered from the strict lines of Order.

4.48 p.m.

Mr. Holdsworth

It is always interesting to listen to the hon. Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams), and I agree with everything he said this afternoon except his statement that the Chancellor was "bound to balance his Budget." In the normal way he ought to do so, but no one can say that this is a balanced Budget. However, I cannot pursue that point, and I am not criticising the Chancellor on that ground. It is difficult to say anything new about this tax. Every year for seven years I have spoken on the Petrol Duty, and when we were considering the Ways and Means Resolutions I dealt with its history and shall not go over that ground again. To-day I want to deal with its effect upon transport in general, because I sometimes wonder whether we realise what a tremendous part the cost of transport plays in the costs of production. "Modern Transport," in an interesting article on 22nd January, stated that we spent £614,000,000 a year upon transport of all kinds in this country. It is the most important single industry in the country regarded from the point of view of expenditure. On passenger-carrying vehicles using petrol there is an expenditure of £233,000,000, and on goods vehicles using petrol of £155,000,000, making a total of £388,000,000 on petrol-driven vehicles.

The Petrol Duty is not a tax on a luxury article. I believe the time has gone by when it can be said to be a luxury for a man to possess a motor car. In an age of speed, in which it is necessary to save time, a man has to have this means of transportation if he is to run his business efficiently. Motor transport for the carriage of goods is growing day by day. The penny increase in the Petrol Duty will mean an additional expenditure of £2 or £3 a year for private car owners using their cars to a moderate extent, and it will mean a new burden of £6,000,000 a year on petrol-driven vehicles. I had the running costs of a 10-ton lorry worked out, and found that, including depreciation, maintenance, and garage, 20 per cent. of the costs was due to taxation, and on a 6-ton lorry at least 15 per cent. A 10-ton lorry doing 40,000 miles a year pays £450 a year in taxation. A 6-ton lorry, running eight miles to the gallon, will pay in Petrol Duty this year £187 10s., and a licence duty of £70. The increase in the taxation on the petrol for that vehicle this year will be £21. Taking the taxation on petrol and the vehicle tax together, the taxation is 1½d. per mile for every mile that vehicle runs. In the case of a 10-ton lorry doing five miles to the gallon the taxation upon the petrol consumed this year will be £300 and there will be a vehicle tax of £150. The increased tax on petrol on that particular vehicle this year is£34. The total of taxation on that vehicle is 2d. for every mile run. In addition to that it pays the A licence duty, and there is the tax on the oil it consumes.

The hon. Member for South Croydon gave figures of the total taxation which the motorist has to pay. The vehicle duty will yield £36,000,000 and the petrol duty £57,500,000, but in order to be fair we must knock £6,000,000 off the £57,500,000 for petrol used for other than transport. If that is done the total taxation which road transport will have to bear this year is £87,500,000. I cannot follow this point too far, but it is interesting to note that the total expenditure upon roads this year, according to information given to me in answer to a question in this House, will be £58,000,000, against a total of £87,500,000 raised from the taxation upon road vehicles.

I have one point to make about the tremendous burden of this duty upon industry. I have received a communication from the cotton industry, and I am told by the statistician to that industry that 73 per cent. of the raw cotton used in Lancashire is carried by road and that 8 per cent. of cotton yarns and cotton cloth is transported by road. No industry in this country has had a bigger struggle for existence during the past few years than the cotton textile industry. There is urgent necessity to increase our export trade, not only in cotton goods but in all textiles. Anyone with experience of the cotton industry or the wool and worsted textile industry knows that since the War margins of profit have got less and less. There is tremendous competition, and I believe it is true, though I am open to correction on this point that quotations for cotton cloths are worked out to one-sixty-fourth of a penny per yard. That shows the severe competition there is, and the tremendous effort which has to be made by those in the industry in order to keep the export trade going.

Do we realise how much transport enters into the cost of all manufactured articles? The raw cotton has to be transported to the yarn spinner, then from the yarn spinner to the weaver, from the weaver to the bleacher, and from the bleacher to the finisher. At every stage in manufacture the cost of transport is adding to the cost of the finished article. I recognise that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has to raise money. I am one of those who voted for every increase in armaments, because I thought they were necessary, and having done so I feel that it is my duty to assist in finding the money, but I would suggest to the Chancellor that taxation should not be put upon an industry before profits are made. In this case it is a running cost. This Petrol Duty adds not only to the costs of the transport industry itself but to the costs of every other industry in the country.

I would like to repeat a point which I made on 3rd May, when I pointed out that 87 per cent. of the total increase in national expenditure between 1930–31 and 1937–38 has been found by the motor industry. I gave further particulars in that speech, and they have been refuted, so I take it they are true. It is a striking thing that this new industry, as it might be called, which is assisting all the industries of the country in the speeding up of manufacture, making it possible for them to carry less stock—because it has enabled that to be done—and assisting deliveries from door to door, should be the industry among all others which is chosen to bear this tremendous burden. I can only think that the Chancellor, when going through things which might be taxed in order to find a way of balancing the Budget—using that word in the Budget sense—decided that this was the easiest form of taxation to collect, but it is not merely a question of how easy a tax is to collect, the effect upon industry in general has to be considered. Although I have little hope of persuading either the Chancellor or the Financial Secretary to the Treasury to give way upon this particular Amendment, I hope that as soon as there is an opportunity of decreasing the taxation upon the motor industry that step will be taken. I remember reading Lord Snowden's second Budget Speech in 1931, in which he regretted having to put another 2d. upon petrol. Since that date the Petrol Duty, which was then raised to 4d., has had another 5d. added to it, making it 9d., and I trust that clue consideration will be given to this point in some future year when there is an opportunity of relieving what is really a grievous burden.

5.0 p.m.

Colonel Sandeman Allen

I would delay the Committee for a few moments to emphasise more or less what the hon. Member for South Bradford (Mr. Holds-worth) has just said. I hope that the Chancellor may be able to see an opportunity in future to reduce this duty, if he is unable to do so now. It is said in this country that we have solved the problems of production and consumption but not the problem of distribution; I cannot see that we are ever going to solve that problem if we continue to increase the taxes upon distribution. I agree that the amount which is paid by way of the Petrol Duty is more than sufficient to cover the cost of the roads. There is sufficient surplus to pay for the derating of the railways and to allow the railways to run their engines on untaxed oil. That does not take into consideration in any way the fact that the motor industry is also being taxed on income and on the profit that it makes. We tax it on its fuels, and on its existence by licence duties, and there is also the Income Tax on profits which may be made after the Chancellor of the Exchequer has raked off everything he possibly can. I hope that the Committee will bear in mind the point I have made, that I can see no solution of the problem of distribution along these lines and that the solution goes further away as taxes are increased upon the methods of distribution.

5.2 p.m.

Mr. Herbert Morrison

I regret that the hon. Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) will not be able to support us in the Division Lobby on this Amendment. He takes the view that if the Budget is to be balanced the money must be found. The hon. Member for South Bradford (Mr. Holdsworth) made the point that the Budget is not balanced; in any case, this is not the only way in which the money could be found. If the Amendment were carried it would mean that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have to reduce his expenditure or find some other sources of revenue. The fate of this Clause does not so conclusively determine the balance between the expenditure and the income of the Budget.

This tax was started with a note of apology by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill) some years ago, and with a touch of humour, as has been indicated. He made a joke about the motorists' claim that taxation should be on petrol, and he said: "All right, I will give you a tax on petrol," but he did not do anything about the other side of the matter. I very well remember Lord Snowden's profound regret that he had to make this tax which, in his view, was burdensome upon industry and enterprise. During the years, there has been a very great increase in the tax until it has now reached a high proportion of the capital costs and running costs of motor transport, particulars of which have been given by the hon. Members for South Croydon and South Bradford. The tax was justified at one time on the ground that the price of petrol had fallen and the additional taxation would therefore not be felt, but since that time there have been changes in the price-level of petrol, and on the whole the price is higher now than at that time. Consequently, the argument is by no means as true as it was.

This tax involves, as my hon. Friend the Member for Consett (Mr. D. Adams) said, a severe tax upon private-car traffic and is particularly burdensome on the user of the small car. In relation to private-car traffic I admit that the argument that there is some element of luxury taxation cannot be ignored but, on the other hand, to many people in business the private car is important as an ancillary to the business, and the tax may damage them in that way. It constitutes a serious burden to the person of limited means running a small car, but it is an enormous burden to commercial traffic and goods transport and is being protested against year by year by people interested in those industries. I have had a considerable number of letters on the subject, as doubtless other hon. Members also have. If we add to the petrol-consumption tax the road-vehicle duty, as to which I am not complaining because it is used for a particular purpose, the overall taxation upon commercial motor transport is very serious.

The same is true of road passenger transport, which already bears a substantial vehicle duty, as to which I do not complain. That tax was considered to be appropriate in the case of road passenger transport vehicles to enable them to earn their keep, but the Petrol Duty has no relationship to road maintenance in any sense of the term. It is a general tax upon a particular type of industry, which is already taxed far beyond the actual cost of the petrol consumed. That is an unusual feature which up till now was limited, I think, to intoxicating liquor. This tax has now reached a point where it is beyond the original cost of the petrol, and where the people in the industry and the community generally are entitled to protest.

I have the figures to show what the tax means to a great public undertaking like the London Passenger Transport Board. Parliament has set up that great public authority, given it responsibilities and directed it to pay certain rates of interest upon the various classes of stock, but by this steadily rising Petrol Duty Parliament is making it exceedingly difficult for that public authority to carry out its responsibilities. It is not fair that Parliament should do so. This authority is paying very substantially in taxation in one way or another, but the money it pays in Petrol Duty is much bigger than any other taxation it pays into the public funds.

In the year ended 30th June, 1937, the London Passenger Transport Board paid £742,617 in respect of local rates, railway freight rebates fund, land tax and tithe-rent charge. It paid, in respect of licensed vehicles duty, licence fees and road service licences, that is to say, taxation in relation to its function as a public service vehicle owner on the roads, £603,005. The duties upon petrol and other fuel, which we are discussing and which have no relationship whatever to the damage done by the vehicles of the board to the roads, and no relationship to those vehicles paying for their keep upon the road, which should be their legitimate contribution to the permanent way—an imperfect analogy to the permanent way of the railway companies—amounted to £1,422,782. As I have said, the tax which the board pays in relation to its function as a road-service undertaking, for running along the streets and getting the advantage of traffic signals, highway improvements, road maintenance, and so on, was £603,005. The additional 1d. upon the petrol tax will involve the board in an extra cost of about £180,000 in the coming year, bringing the total taxation in respect of petrol and other fuel into the region of £1,600,000.

That is a terrific tax to put upon a public authority of this kind which has important functions to fulfil, arid if it goes on for long enough it will force the Board to reconsider the level of fares. It is quite speculative as to whether that would bring in more money and there would be a great public outcry about it. I urge upon the Chancellor of the Exchequer that it is time to leave off shedding tears and apologising about this tax, and time to do something about it. Chancellor after Chancellor has expressed regret at having to impose the tax, and the original Chancellor of the Exchequer who put it on apologised for it. This is a tax upon industry and transport, and it is therefore burdensome indirectly upon industry as a whole.

5.13 p.m.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Captain Euan Wallace)

The hon. Member for South Bradford (Mr. Holdsworth) began a speech containing some interesting figures, which I look forward to seeing on paper, by saying that there was nothing new to be said about the Petrol Tax; and I think the Committee will appreciate that on the broad principle of the tax and on the necessity of imposing the addition there is not very much that I could say which the Committee has not already heard on one or two occasions already. I wish, therefore, to devote my remarks for a few moments to the points raised by hon. Members in all parts of the Committee in the four or five verymuch-to-the-point speeches.

The hon. Member for Consett (Mr. D. Adams), who moved the Amendment, devoted his speech to the effect of the petrol tax and therefore, a fortiori, of the increase in the tax, upon the small motorist. He went so far as to say that it was really shutting the working classes out of the pleasures of motoring—if indeed it is very much of a pleasure to motor at the week-end in present conditions. I think the real answer to his contention lies in the figures which the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave during the Debate on the Second Reading of the Bill, when he pointed out that cars which are taxed by horsepower—that is, excluding commercial goods and commercial passenger vehicles—increased from 1,308,000 in 1934 to 1,798,000 in 1937. I do not think there is any reason to anticipate that the steady increase in these numbers is going to stop. It is true, as any hon. Member can discover by comparing the rate of tax on petrol and the number of vehicles licensed in any year, that the duty on petrol has not had any appreciable effect in preventing expansion in the use either of private cars or of lorries and other vehicles.

The second point made by the Mover of the Amendment was that the policy of a high petrol tax had forced manufacturers in this country to flood the market with small cars—

Mr. David Adams

With other taxation.

Captain Wallace

—and had therefore prevented the motor manufacturers in this country from developing an engine which would be suitable for export. It is a very interesting fact, to which reference has already been made this afternoon, that in 1928 exactly the reverse argument was put to the Government by the motor organisations. They suggested that the one bar to a rapid development of the kind of car which would sell well abroad was the horsepower tax, and at that time they took the view, rightly or wrongly, that it would be better to have the whole of the tax on petrol.

When the hon. Member was talking about the hardship on the small motorist, I tried, with the help of a colleague beside me who is good at arithmetic, to work out exactly what this additional penny would mean to the small man who uses his car, as many do, just at the week-end. If he had a car which was capable of doing 30 miles on a gallon of petrol—and I believe there are a number of cars which can do that—he would be able to get in a week-end run of 360 miles for another is., or, say, a year's motoring of well over 7,000 miles for an extra £1. Much, therefore, as I sympathise, and as I think the Chancellor sympathises, with such people in having any additional impost placed upon them, I do not think the Committee will take the view that this extra tax is what might be called harsh or unconscionable.

Mr. H. G. Williams

My right hon. and gallant Friend speaks of is. per week-end and £1 per year. Do I understand that he is calculating on the basis of there being only 20 week-ends in the year?

Captain Wallace

As a matter of fact, a great many people do not get as many as 20 motoring week-ends in the year. My hon. Friend the Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) dilated with all his usual accuracy, supported with all his usual statistical armoury, on the hardships, first on the motorist and, secondly, on the transport industry, but he was kind enough to give, at the very opening of his remarks, the answer to the whole of his own speech when he said that of course this is a revenue tax, and the money has to be raised somehow. Evidently he did not see any better way of raising it.

The hon. Member for South Bradford gave, as I have said, a number of extremely interesting statistics in regard to the cost of fuel in the working life of commercial vehicles. I would not for an instant attempt to criticise those figures, but the hon. Member made one extremely far-reaching remark when he suggested that we should adopt the principle that there should be no taxation before profits are earned. That might be all very well for a Government of the complexion of the present Government, but, if hon. Gentlemen opposite were to get into office, and were able to adopt their full-blooded policy of socialising the whole of industry, it is difficult to see where the profits would come in on which the tax was to be collected, and I am afraid we should come down to getting the whole of the money from the millionaire, who would very shortly cease to exist.

The right hon. Gentleman who has just spoken made it clear that Mr. Snowden, when imposing the last increase upon these hydrocarbon oils, which raised the tax from 6d. to 8d., did so with very great regret, and he reminded us that in 1928 my right hon. Friend the Member for Epping (Mr. Churchill), when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer and inaugurated this tax for a particular purpose, also did so with regret. The present Chancellor of the Exchequer authorises me to say that he is following in their footsteps. [Interruption.] At any rate, whatever his personal feelings are at the moment, I do not think they are so strong as to induce him to authorise me to accept this Amendment. Although I might go on for a long time descanting to the Committee on the amount of revenue that has to be obtained, the total consumption of petrol, and so on, the issues are perfectly plain, and I will only conclude by saying that, if there is a case for keeping this Clause in the Finance Bill, as I firmly believe there is, that case is, of course, doubly strong against the proposal made in the Amendmer we are discussing, to reduce the tax ins[...] of increasing it.

Question put, "That the word increased' stand part of the Clause.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 219; Noes, 145.

Division No. 243.] AYES [5.24 p.m.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Gledhill, G. Pownall, LI.-Col. Sir Assheton
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Procter, Major H. A.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Goldie, N. B. Radford, E. A.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Gower, Sir R. V. Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Assheton, R. Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Ramsden, Sir E.
Astor, Major Hon. J. J. (Dover) Grant-Ferris, R. Rankin, Sir R.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Atholl, Duchess of Gridley, Sir A. B. Rawson, Sir Cooper
Baillie, Sir A. W. M. Grimston, R. V. Rayner, Major R. H.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor) Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Baxter, A. Beverley Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'lt, N.W.) Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Hannah, I. C. Reid, Sir D. D. (Down)
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Harbord, A. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Birchall, Sir J. D. Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Ropner, Colonel L.
Bird, Sir R. B. Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Blair, Sir R. Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Rowlands, G.
Boulton, W. W. Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R.
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Hepworth, J. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Higgs, W. F. Russell, Sir Alexander
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Holmes, J. S. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbary) Hopkinson, A. Salmon, Sir I.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Hersbrugh, Florence Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Bull, B. B. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Scott, Lord William
Bullock, Capt. M. Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Selley, H. R.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Hulbert, N. J. Shakespeare, G. H.
Carver, Major W. H. Hume, Sir G. H. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.) Hunloke, H. P. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hunter, T. Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.
Channon, H. Hutchinson, G. C. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.
Chorlton, A. E. L. Jarvis, Sir J. J. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Christie, J. A. Joel, D. J. B. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Smithers, Sir W.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Keeling, E. H. Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald
Colville, Rt. Hon. John Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Spans. W. P.
Conant, Captain R. J. E. Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Unit's.) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Cook, Sir T. R. A. M. (Norfolk N.) Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Lamb, Sir J. Q. Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. N. (E'nburgh, W.) Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak) Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. Leech, Sir J. W. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Cox, H. B. Trevor Lees-Jones, J. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Tate, Mavis C.
Cross, R. H. Lipson, D. L. Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Crossley, A. C. Mebane, W. (Huddersfield) Thomas, J. P. L.
Crowder, J F. E. M'Connell, Sir J. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Cruddas, Col. B. Macdonald, Capt. T. (Isle of Wight) Titchfield, Marquess of
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Davison, Sir W. H. McKie, J. H. Turton, R. H.
De la Bère, R. Maclay, Hon. J. P. Wakefield, W. W.
Denville, Alfred Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees) Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Maitland, A. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Doland, G. F. Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Donner, P. W. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Dorman-Smith, Major Sir R. H. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Drewe, C. Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury) Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Watt, Major G. S. Harvie
Dugdale, Captain T. L. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Wayland, Sir W. A.
Duncan, J. A. L. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Wells, Sir Sydney
Dunglass, Lord Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R. Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Eckersley, P. T. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Ellis, Sir G. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Elmley, Viscount Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Emery, J. F. Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Entwistle, Sir C. F. O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Errington, E. O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Patrick, C. M. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Peake, O. Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Fleming, E. L. Perkins, W. R. D. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Fremantle, Sir F. E. Petherick, M.
Furness, S. N. Pickthorn, K. W. M. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Fyfe, D. P. M. Porritt, R. W. Major Sir James Edmondson and
Major Herbert.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Parker, J.
Adams, D. (Consett) Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.) Parkinson, J. A.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Pearson, A.
Adamson, W. M. Hardie, Agnes Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Harris, Sir P. A. Poole, C. C.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) Price, M. P.
Banfield, J. W. Hayday, A. Ridley, G.
Barnes, A. J. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Riley, B.
Barr, J. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Ritson, J.
Betey, J. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. Hicks, E. G. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Benson, G. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Rothschild, J. A. de
Bevan, A. Holdsworth, H. Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey)
Broad, F. A. Hopkin, D. Sanders, W. S.
Bromfield, W. Jagger, J. Sexton, T. M.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Jenkins, A. (Pontlypool) Shinwell, E.
Buchanan, G. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Silverman, S. S.
Burke, W. A. John, W. Simpson, F. B.
Cape, T. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Cassells, T. Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Charleton, H. C. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Smith, E. (Stoke)
Chater, D. Kelly, W. T Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Leas (K'ly)
Clime, W. S. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Cocks, F. S. Kirby, B. V. Sorensen, R. W.
Collindridge, F. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Stephen, C.
Cove, W. G. Lathan, G. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-sp'ng)
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Lawson, J. J. Stokes, R. R.
Dagger, G. Leach, W. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Dalton, H. Lee, F. Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Leonard, W. Taylor, R. J. (Merpeth)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Leslie, J. R. Thurtle, E.
Day, H. Logan, D. G. Tinker, J. J.
Dobbie, W. Lunn, W. Tomlinson, G.
Dunn, E. (Rather Valley) Macdonald, G. (Ince) Viant, S. P.
Ede, J. C. McEntee, V. La T. Walkden, A. G.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) McGhee, H. G. Walker, J.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) McGovern, J. Watkins, F. C.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Maclean, N. Watson, W. McL.
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Mander, G. le M. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Foot, D. M. Mothers, G. Westwood, J.
Frankel, D. Maxton, J. White, H. Graham
Gallacher, W. Messer, F. Wilkinson, Ellen
Gardner, B. W. Montague, F. Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
George, Rt. Hon. D. Lloyd (Carn'v'n) Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Gibson, R. (Greenock) Nathan, Colonel H. L. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Naylor, T. E. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Oliver, G. H.
Grenfell, D. R. Owen, Major G. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Mr. Anderson and Mr. Groves.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 227; Noes, 147.

Division No. 244.] AYES [5.32 p.m.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Burgin, Rt. Hon. E. L. Davison, Sir W. H.
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Campbell, Sir E. T. De Chair, S. S.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Carver, Major W. H. De la Bère, R.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.) Denville, Alfred
Assheton, R. Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F.
Astor, Major Hon. J. J. (Dover) Channon, H. Doland, G. F.
Astor, Viscountess (Plymouth, Sutton) Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Donner, P. W.
Atholl, Duchess of Chorlton, A. E. L. Dorman-Smith, Major Sir R. H.
Baillie, Sir A. W. M. Christie, J. A. Drewe, C.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Clarry, Sir Reginald Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury)
Baxter, A. Beverley Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Dugdale, Captain T. L.
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Colville, Rt. Hon. John Duncan, J. A. L.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Conant, Captain R. J. E. Dunglass, Lord
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Cook, Sir T. FL A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Eckersley, P. T.
Birchall, Sir J. D. Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Ellis, Sir G.
Bird, Sir R. B. Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Elmley, Viscount
Blair, Sir R. Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. Emery, J. F.
Boulton, W. W. Cox, H. B. Trevor Emrys-Evans, P. V.
Bower, Comdr. R. T. Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Entwistle, Sir C. F.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Croom-Johnson, R. P. Errington, E.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Cross, R. H. Erskine-Hill, A. G.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Crossley, A. C. Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Crowder, J. F. E. Fleming, E. L.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Cruddas, Col. B. Fremantle, Sir F. E.
Bull, B. B. Culverwell, C. T. Furness, S. N.
Bullock, Capt. M. Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Fyfe, D. P. M.
Gledhill, G. McKie, J. H. Salley, H. R.
Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Maclay, Hon. J. P. Shakespeare, G. H.
Goldie N. B. Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees) Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Gower, Sir R. V. Maitland, A. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Graham, Captain A. G. (Wirral) Makins, Brigadier-General Sir Ernest Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.
Grant-Ferris, R. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Smiles, Lieut. Colonel Sir W. D.
Gridley, Sir A. B. Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Grimston, R. V. Maxwell, Hon. S. A. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Guest, Lieut.-Colonel H. (Drake) Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Smithers, Sir W.
Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor) Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Somervell, Rt. Hon. Sir Donald
Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W) Moore, Lieut.-Colonel Sir T. C. R. Spans, W. P.
Hannah, I. C. Morris-Jones, Sir Henry Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Harbord, A. Morrison, G. A. (Soottish Univ's.) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Haslam, Henry (Hornoastle) Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Hely-Hutchinson, M. R. Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Hepworth, J. Patrick, C. M. Tate, Mavis C.
Higgs, W. F. Peake, O. Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Perkins, W. R. D. Thomas, J. P. L.
Holmes, J. S. Petherick, M. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Pickthorn, K. W. M. Titchfield, Marquess of
Hopkinson, A. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Horsbrugh, Florence Porritt, R. W. Turton, R. H.
Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hook., N.) Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir Assheton Wakefield, W. W.
Hudson, Rt. Hon. R. S. (Southport) Procter, Major H. A. Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Hulbert, N. J. Radford, E. A. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Hume, Sir G. H. Raikes, H. V. A. M. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Hunloke, H. P. Ramsden, Sir E. Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Hunter, T. Rankin, Sir R. Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Hutchinson, G. C. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Waterhouse, Captain C.
James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. Rawson, Sir Cooper Watt, Major G. S. Harvie
Jarvis, Sir J. J. Rayner, Major R. H. Wayland, Sir W. A
Joel, D. J. B. Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Wells, Sir Sydney
Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Reed, Sir H. S. (Aylesbury) Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Keeling, E. H. Reid, J. S. C. (Hlllhead) Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Reid, W. Allan (Derby) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Lamb, Sir J. Q. Ropner, Colonel L. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak) Rosa Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Womersley, Sir W. J.
Leech, Sir J. W. Rowlands, G. Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Lees-Jones, J. Royds, Admiral Sir P. M. R. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Leighton, Major B. E. P. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E, A. Wright, Wing-Commander J. A. C.
Lipson, D. L. Russell, Sir Alexander Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Mebane, W. (Huddersfield) Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
M'Connell, Sir J. Salmon, Sir I. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Sanderson, Sir F. B. Major Sir James Edmondson
McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Scott, Lord William and Major Herbert.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Hopkin, D.
Adams, D. (Consett) Day, H. Jagger, J.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Dobbie, W. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)
Adamson, W. M. Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lebr.) Ede, J. C. John, W.
Anderson, F. (Whitehavan) Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Jones, A. C. (Shipley)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Bonfield, J. W. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)
Barnes, A. J. Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Kelly, W. T
Barr, J. Foot, D. M. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.
Betsy, J. Frankel, D. Kirby, B. V.
Bann, Rt. Hon. W. W. Gallacher, W. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G.
Benson, G. Gardner, B. W. Lathan, G.
Bevan, A. George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Lawson, J. J.
Broad, F. A. Gibson, R. (Greenock) Leach, W.
Bromfield, W. Green, W. H. (Deptford) Lee, F.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Leonard, W.
Buchanan, G. Granfell, D. R. Leslie, J. R.
Burke, W. A. Griffiths, J. (Llanelly) Logan, D. G.
Cape, T. Guest, Dr. L. H. (Islington, N.) Lunn, W.
Cassells, T. Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Macdonald, G. (Ince.)
Charleton, H. C. Hardie, Agnes MoEntee, V. La T.
Chater, D. Harris, Sir P. A. McGhee, H. G.
Cluse, W. S. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) McGovern, J.
Cocks, F. S. Hayday, A. Maclean, N.
Collindridge, F. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Mender, G. le M.
Cove, W. G. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Maxton, J.
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Messer, F.
Dagger, G. Hicks, E. G. Montague, F.
Dalton, H. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.)
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Holdsworth, H. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)
Muff, G. Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey) Tinker, J. J.
Nathan, Colonel H. L. Sanders, W. S. Tomlinson, G.
Naylor, T. E. Sexton. T. M. Viant, S. P.
Oliver, G. H. Shinwell, E. Walkden, A. G.
Owen, Major G. Silverman, S. S. Walker, J.
Paling, W. Simpson, F. B. Watkins, F. C.
Parker, J. Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's) Watson, W. McL.
Parkinson, J. A. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Pearson, A. Smith, E. (Stoke) Westwood, J.
Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees (K'ly) White, H. Graham
Poole, C. C. Smith, T. (Normanton) Wilkinson, Ellen
Price, M. P. Sorensen, R. W. Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
Ridley, G. Stephen, C. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Riley, B. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Ritson, J. Stokes, R. R. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.) Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) Summerskill, Dr. Edith
Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens) Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Rothschild, J. A. de Thurtle, E. Mr. Mathers and Mr. Groves.

Question put, and agreed to.