4. Duchess of Athollasked the Prime Minister whether the recent agreement with Italy includes a settlement of the Spanish question; and, if so, what are the main terms of this settlement?
§ Mr. ButlerAs the Noble Lady will be aware, it was stated in the Notes exchanged between His Majesty's Ambassador in Rome and the Italian Minister for Foreign Affairs, that His Majesty's Government regard a settlement of the Spanish question as a prerequisite of the entry into force of the agreement between the two Governments. As regards the definition of this settlement, I have nothing to add to the statement made by the Prime Minister in the Debate on 2nd May.
Duchess of AthollCould my hon. Friend say anything to relieve the fears that are entertained in all parts of the House that since the negotiations with Italy begain the conditions of withdrawal of foreign troops have been altered to the advantage of the insurgents, and that the basis of the settlement is an understanding that there shall be a victory for the insurgents?
§ Mr. ButlerI could not accept the Noble Lady's statement as to the interpretation of the Non-Intervention Agreement.
§ 7. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister whether the present British proposals for the evacuation of foreign troops from Spain will also ensure the evacuation of the armaments with which these troops were equipped when they arrived in Spain?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir. The plan which is now before the Non-Intervention Committee does not include any such provision. It is a complex scheme, agreement on the general lines of which has been reached after prolonged negotiations and His Majesty's Government are not disposed to endanger application by widening its provision. This does not mean, however, that they are not ready to consider as a separate question the possibility of securing the withdrawal of war material imported into Spain.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerCan it be hoped that the withdrawal will operate with equity to both sides, and that the Italian troops will take away the large armaments which they have brought in?
§ Mr. ButlerI have said in my answer that we must proceed with the plan which is now before the Non-Intervention Committee, but that we are quite ready to consider the question of material separately.
§ Mr. G. StraussIs there anything to prevent more armaments being sent into Spain?
8. Miss Rathboneasked the Prime Minister, in view of the fact that the British Consulate-General is now at Caldetas, 25 miles from Barcelona, what means of observation do His Majesty's Government possess for satisfying themselves as to whether attacks on British shipping are intentional or otherwise?
§ Mr. ButlerMembers of the Consular staff attend in Barcelona daily, and the Consul-General, who is within easy motoring distance of the port, prepares his reports after taking into consideration all the relevant facts, including those obtained from eye witnesses.
Miss RathboneHow can a daily attendance at a consulate by a man who is spending the greater part of his time 25 miles away possibly allow him to observe what is happening? Will the Government try to get some more adequate means of observation?
§ Mr. ButlerIf the hon. Lady will study my answer, she will see that he is not the only man who is watching.
§ Mr. ShinwellIs it not known that the majority of these attacks are intentional?
§ Mr. ButlerI do not know what the hon. Member means by intentional.
§ Mr. ShinwellHas it not now been established that the majority of these attacks on British vessels are deliberate? What do the Government intend to do about it?
§ Mr. ButlerI would not say that the majority of these attacks are deliberately aimed at British ships.
§ Mr. PrittWill they not increase in number, because it is obvious that His Majesty's Government will never stop them?
§ 17. Mr. G. Straussasked the Prime Minister whether any reply has been received from the insurgent authorities in Spain to His Majesty's Government's protest against the deliberate aerial attack on the "Thorpehall "?
§ Mr. ButlerAs the protest was only made on 30th May, there has not yet been time to receive a reply.
§ Mr. StraussHas there not, in fact, been a reply, because the insurgents, or rather the Italian aeroplanes, have sunk yet one more steamer, and is it not, therefore, obvious that this method of protest has no effect?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir, I would not accept that statement.
§ Mr. A. V. AlexanderIs not the British Navy still efficient, and cannot the British Navy be employed to protect British ships and British lives?
§ Mr. MacquistenAre these British ships? Are they not all chartered by the Spanish Government?
§ 18. Mr. Manderasked the Prime Minister what arrangements have been made by the Non-Intervention Committee to control the arrival of military aircraft in Spain; and whether any plan of this kind will be in operation in addition to the land and sea control?
§ Mr. ButlerIn advance of a public statement by the Non-Intervention Committee, I am not at liberty to give details of the plans which are at present under the committee's discussion, but I understand that this problem has already been the subject of examination by the committee.
§ Mr. ManderIs it contemplated that foreign aircraft will continue to pour into Spain while the coasts and land frontiers are controlled?
§ Mr. ButlerThe hon. Gentleman must understand nothing of the sort. I said that the Committee are considering this particular point.
§ Mr. ManderIs it not perfectly well known that they have been considering it for many months, if not years? We want some definite action.
§ Mr. ButlerIt is also perfectly well known that the Committee are making considerable progress on this and other matters.
§ Miss WilkinsonIs it not the fact that the right hon. Gentleman's predecessor stated repeatedly that it was not possible to have any control over military aeroplanes, and in that case, is not the statement just made by the Minister deliberately misleading this House?
§ Mr. ButlerNo, Sir, I did not make a statement deliberately misleading the House, nor do I wish to under-rate the difficulties of this particular aspect of the problem.
§ Sir Archibald SinclairAs the Non-Intervention Committee are making such good progress in the work of making plans to prevent aeroplanes from going into Spain, which I am sure we are all glad to hear, can the hon. Gentleman assure the House that the plans for closing the frontiers of Spain will not be brought into operation until the plan of controlling the entry of aeroplanes into Spain is made effective?
§ Mr. ButlerIt is extremely difficult to make this particular proposal completely 2008 effective. I have told the House that this is one of the matters that the Non-Intervention Committee are discussing, and I am glad to say that, on the general question, they are making progress.
§ Mr. ManderNo wonder the trade unions will not support you.
§ Mr. GallacherYou will never get their support.
20. Mr. Edmund Harveyasked the Prime Minister whether the Non-Intervention Committee has made further progress with its arrangements for the withdrawal of foreign military forces from Spain; and whether he can indicate the date on which the commission to enumerate the foreign troops and volunteers on both sides can begin its work?
§ Mr. ButlerA further meeting of the chairman's sub-committee was held yesterday at which two proposals connected with the financing of the withdrawal scheme were put forward. The first was that the expenses to be incurred in Spain should be defrayed from an international fund to be contributed to equally by the United Kingdom, French, German, Italian and Soviet Governments, while the cost of sea and rail transport from Spain should be borne by each Government in proportion to the numbers of its nationals actually withdrawn. The second proposal was that the sum of £50,000 should be provided to meet the needs of the International Board in the period immediately prior to the final adoption of the plan by the International Committee. The representatives concerned agreed to submit these financial proposals to their Governments. Another meeting of the sub-committee has been arranged for to-morrow, and I am not at present able to make any further statement.
§ Mr. Wedgwood BennWhen Lord Plymouth said that we shall have to pay £200,000, was he speaking with any statutory authority of this House?
§ Mr. ButlerHe was expressing the general view of the Government.
§ Mr. ButlerI should require notice of that question.
§ 24. Mr. Noel-Bakerasked the Prime Minister whether he has received any reports concerning the nationality of the aircraft which sank the British vessels "Thorpehall "and "Greatend "in Spanish waters?
§ Mr. ButlerThe answer is in the negative.
§ Mr. Noel-BakerHave the Government called for any reports of the nationality of these aircraft that are sinking British ships almost every day?
§ Mr. ButlerMy noble Friend is expecting further reports from the masters of these particular vessels, and I should prefer to await the arrival of these reports.