§ 3.7 P.m.
§ Mr. BuchananI wish to raise a question affecting Scotland, but before doing so, I should like to say that I think every hon. Member who has listened to the speeches that have been made of the position of the Jews in Central Europe will wish the Government Godspeed in all their efforts to improve the position of the persecuted Jews. I have never been able to understand this persecution of the Jews, and I trust that every effort which the Government make will be successful in easing, if not in solving, the problem.
I always feel in these days that one ought to apologise to the House for raising a matter which is not connected with foreign affairs, and I feel like apologising now for raising a small matter affecting Scotland. The other day the Home Secretary announced a number of very decent reforms in the prison system in England. I asked the Secretary of State for Scotland to institute the same reforms in Scotland. I cannot understand why the Secretary of State for Scotland has not been able to institute, not wide, revolutionary reforms, but comparatively minor reforms, in the prison system in Scotland. The late Sir Godfrey Collins, when he was Secretary of State, was tackled on this subject 3569 on a number of occasions, and I remember that he gave the assurance that Scotland would not lag behind. It was commonly said, not merely of prison matters, but of everything, that Scotland would not lag behind England, and that they would always institute the same reforms. Indeed, the late Sir Godfrey Collins went further, and on one occasion said that Scotland would lead in the van of progress in regard to prison reforms. A considerable amount of time has passed since then. The other day the Home Secretary announced various reforms, such as smoking for prisoners, payment of prisoners, and also concerning the removal of prisoners long distances temporarily to other prisons where relatives might have access to them from time to time.
The first matter which I wish to raise is in regard to long-term prisoners. I understood that the Home Secretary in England proposes that prisoners of this type shall be allowed to smoke, at least after they have served a period of their sentences. I know prisoners who have been in Peterhead for years and one of their greatest desires is to be allowed to smoke. What is there in connection with the Scottish prisons which makes it impossible for the Secretary of State for Scotland to institute this small but desirable reform? I understand that it involves no legislation and that the right hon. Gentleman could do it himself tomorrow. I also wish to know what objection, if any, there is to the introduction in Scotland of an earnings system similar to that of which the Home Secretary spoke in relation to English prisons. The Home Secretary was almost lyrical when he spoke of the success of this venture in England and read letters from both prisoners and governors showing how successful it had been.
There is another matter in connection with the long-term prisoners which I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider. In the case of life sentences, or sentences of from 10 to 15 years, a considerable time elapses before the prisoners are allowed to receive visits from relatives. If a man is poor and his relatives are poor they have little chance of visiting Peterhead. I have visited Peterhead on, I think, nine different occasions. I went there to see a prisoner whose father I knew, and I may say, incidentally, that the governor never 3570 attempted to show me any more than was shown to anybody else. I always thought that there was something in being a Member of Parliament and that the governor might, at least, have given me some insight into the life of the prison, but I never saw any more than the ordinary visitor saw. I suppose the governor was carrying out his job, but I always found the governors of Barlinnie and Duke Street Prisons very willing to show me the prisons at work. However, I leave that aside. I found Peterhead an impossible place for poor people from Glasgow to visit. I had to leave Glasgow at four o'clock in the morning when I went there and I did not return to my home until half-past seven in the evening. The railway fare is over £1 and it is necessary to take a bus from Aberdeen to Peterhead and back, and when meals are taken into consideration even on the most meagre scale, a visit there costs nearly £2 for each individual. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to do one of two things—either extend to Scotland the Home Secretary's plan for transferring these long-term prisoners temporarily to a prison where they can easily be visited by their relatives or else make a grant to enable their relatives to visit them.
I would also bring to his attention the fact that prisoners are always anxious to get something to read. During the football season everyone wants to know the football results—who has won the Scottish Cup and all that kind of thing. It is a very natural desire. They want two things. Why should not the ordinary prisoner doing a long-term sentence get a newspaper to read every day, one that he would pick out himself, such as the "Scotsman," the "Glasgow Herald," the Dundee paper, the Aberdeen paper, or any other paper that he might desire each day? If there were some objectionable news in it, to which the Scottish Office objected, they could always cross it out by marking it off as is done in public libraries, and I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to try and see that the prisoners get each day at least one newspaper to read to keep him informed. The other thing that I was going to ask was this. We have in these modern days the wireless, and I understand that it is sometimes used in our prisons, though not regularly. Anyhow, it has been partially adopted, and I would ask that every night the wireless should be put on, not for the 3571 use of each individual prisoner, but in the central hall, so that each prisoner, even if he is not allowed exercise, could hear the wireless each evening.
Further, will the right hon. Gentleman consider allowing letters to be written home much more frequently? In the case of 5-, 10-, or 15-year or life sentences, the position in Scotland is that it is so long before a man can get a visit—I think, nearly six months or a year—and then, when a visit is allowed, the man has to watch that he does not get too many letters, because if he does, that cuts out his visits. I would say that at least two letters a week should be allowed from a prisoner, if he cares to write them. There is nothing that gives a prisoner an interest in life like writing back to his own people, particularly if he is a married man with young children, and I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider granting prisoners the facility of writing letters much more frequently than at present. Then there is the question of the improvement of the libraries inside the prisons. Something ought to be done in all the prisons, and particularly in Peterhead Prison, really to improve the libraries. I am sure the Glasgow Corporation and other library authorities have many books that have now reached the stage when there is not the same demand for them as formerly. All of us know that in fiction the demand eases off very quickly and many library authorities must have what Lord Rosebery at one time described as a cemetery of books. I am sure the Secretary of State for Scotland could restock the prison libraries if he made an appeal to the libraries throughout the country.
I would ask the right hon. Gentleman, in this matter of prison reform, not to lag behind England. The Home Secretary made a speech the other day that I said afterwards I should never have expected from him. It was a speech with a decent outlook and, I thought, very humane motives, and why should not the Secretary of State for Scotland, in running his prisons in Scotland, have the same humane outlook? I would also ask him to consider getting into touch with the English Home Office on this issue. Frequently a prisoner from England gets gaoled in Scotland, or vice versa, a prisoner from Scotland gets gaoled in England, and in such a case the question of visitation is, for the great 3572 mass of the poorer people, almost hopeless. Why should not the Scottish Office and the Home Office have a sort of agreement to allow a change-over of such prisoners from one country to the other where they are serving a sentence of, say, over 12 months? I think it would make for ease in the visitation of these prisoners. I apologise for having raised this matter on the Adjournment, but I trust that the Secretary of State will see that before we assemble again the prison reforms that are being made in England will be instituted in Scotland and, indeed, that he will go further and pay particular attention to the lighting of prisons. I appeal to him to have electric light put in Peterhead Prison. There is no sense in keeping a prisoner more miserable than he need be. I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will look into the whole question of administration and see that these reforms are carried out as speedily and as humanely as possible.
§ 3.21 p.m.
§ The Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Colville)The hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) has no need to apologise for raising this question to-day. I am glad that he has given me the opportunity to add something to the reply which I gave to a question he asked earlier to-day about the prison reforms announced by the Home Secretary. I said then that some of those reforms were already operating in Scotland and that others were under consideration. I cannot answer all the hon. Member's points, because I must have time to look into them, but I can assure him that in regard to certain of the reforms about which the Home Secretary spoke two days ago, the Scottish Prisons Department is not behind and that consideration is being given to others. There has been an increase recently in the number of hours of associated labour and it will be agreed that that is a proper and humane move. It has also been possible recently to afford better facilities for physical training for prisoners of older ages. I cannot give further details now, but I am assured that in this respect the Scottish prisoners are given facilities which compare well, generally speaking, with those indicated by the Home Secretary.
The hon. Member referred to the improvement of the libraries and made an interesting suggestion as to how I could get more books. My information is that 3573 during the last year there has been a real effort to improve and enlarge prison libraries and that the improvement made already compares with that described by the Home Secretary in regard to England. I will examine the hon. Member's suggestion for I agree with him that something more might be done in that direction. The hon. Member also referred to newspapers. During the past year the privilege of reading newspapers has been extended and instructions have been given that they should not be censored. Obviously the prisoners cannot read without light, and the hon. Member referred to the need for electric light to be introduced in all prisons. I am able to announce that by the end of next year there will be electric light in every Scottish prison except Kirkwall and Lerwick. Some of the prisons already have electric light in the ceilings of the cells, and lights are being so fixed in all new electric installations. As the hon. Member will appreciate, the importance of having the light in the ceiling is that such a light, as against a light which is simply filtering in from the passage outside, may be used for reading. Then the hon. Member asked me about smoking. At present certain categories of prisoners only are allowed to smoke, for example untried prisoners, aliens awaiting deportation, prisoners under sentence of death, and the inmates of the Criminal Lunatic Department.
§ Mr. BuchananBut nobody at Peterhead.
§ Mr. ColvilleThe hon. Member asked when we intend to introduce into Scotland the change already made in England of allowing smoking generally, subject to certain conditions. That question is bound up with the wage-earning question, because the prisoners must have some money to buy tobacco. As soon as I have had some experience of the scheme instituted this year for reclassifying prisoners and convicts, I shall give consideration to the questions of wage-earning and the permission of smoking. I cannot undertake to say more than that to-day, but I will give the matter my close personal consideration. I intend during the Recess to visit personally a number of prisons in Scotland to satisfy myself about the conditions which have been referred to to-day.
As regards clothing, which I do not think was mentioned by the hon. Member, 3574 new style clothing has been issued for female prisoners and I understand that it has been much appreciated by them. That is a recent change. The diet, also, has recently been improved, and the present diet scales are under my examination. I am considering them in comparison with the English diet scale in order to see that the relationship between the two scales is a fair one, allowing for differentces in the type of prisoners.
§ Mr. BuchananWill you see that Peterhead gets more, for the supply is terrible?
§ Mr. ColvilleThe diet scales are under review, as I have said. The expense of relatives travelling to Peterhead was also referred to. The Home Secretary has indicated, as regards England, that he is making arrangements to move prisoners for short periods to places where their relatives can visit them. In Scotland convicts are transferred to a local prison when near the end of their sentence in order to enable them to get into touch with prospective employers. If this practice were extended to the moving of prisoners to prisons where it would be easier for their relatives to visit them, the question of expense would arise. I will examine the suggestion, and I am looking into the English system to see whether any possible adaptation of it could be applied to Scotland. Up to now it has not been found possible to do so, and the cost has to be borne in mind. I cannot promise a grant from public funds towards the expenses of relatives travelling to see prisoners.
Another point with which I would deal relates to wireless sets. I am told that all Scottish prisons, except, up to now, Inverness, and all Borstal Institutions, have wireless sets. The hon. Member made some suggestions as to extending their use, but I am not sure whether it would be practicable. I will look into it. The remarks made by the hon. Member who raised this subject covered a wide field and I take the opportunity of saying that a good deal of work is being done by the Prisons Department for Scotland to keep our system up to date. For example, work has been in progress for some time on the new Criminal Lunatic Asylum and State Institution for Defectives and it is expected that the Institutions will be ready for occupation next year. A point was also raised regarding 3575 prison officers' quarters. Work to provide 52 new quarters for the staff of Barlinnie Prison has been commenced and the work of building 12 houses is going on at the present time.
Mr. J. J. DavidsonAs I raised that question, may I ask the hon. Gentleman to indicate when the houses were actually started?
§ Mr. ColvilleI cannot say the date, but I know that they are in building at the present time.
§ Mr. ColvilleI promise the hon. Gentleman to look into the question which he has raised. He sent me a cutting from a magazine but it was much out of date. I hope we can get much more recent information on the question in which he is interested.
As I said at the beginning, the hon. Member for Gorbals need not apologise for raising these questions because I am glad to have had the opportunity of saying a word or two about them, and of assuring the House, and especially Scottish Members, that I am particularly interested in these branches of administration. I intend to give my personal attention to them during the Recess. While certain English reforms are already in operation in Scotland and are working satisfactorily, others, I assure the House, are being considered to see whether they can properly be applied to Scotland.