§ Sir Reginald ClarryI desire, with your kind permission, Mr. Speaker, to make a personal statement in respect of certain observations made by the hon. Member for Rothwell (Mr. Lunn) in the course of his speech during the Debate on Thursday night on the West Yorkshire Gas Distribution Bill, and to ask your guidance for the future. The objectionable words by the hon. Member, although inaudible to the Deputy-Speaker, are recorded in the OFFICIAL REPORT, as follow:
I have listened to an amazing speech by the hon. Member for Newport (Sir R. Clarry). Flow in the world a man can forget his public duty, have no regard to the ratepayers or taxpayers, but simply think of his own pocket and vested interest, I cannot understand. I do not think that in a public body a man should be allowed to do that, and do it with impunity, as the hon. Member for Newport always does.Further, in reply to my interruption, he said:I do not know whether the hon. Member considers they are implications or not. They are true."— [OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th July, 1938; col. 701, Vol. 338.]I deny those imputations most emphatically. My public duty has never been forgotten on any occasion, and is well understood by my constituents, as evidenced by my re-election on five occasions. My activities in Parliament in connection with coal carbonisation and gas industry matters have nothing to do with my own pocket or vested interests, and I have no financial interest in the gas industry. For some years prior to entering Parliament I was general manager and engineer of the Swansea Gas Company, and although I left this appointment and the industry 18 years ago, I still retain the personal friendship of a number of old colleagues and associates. As the only Member, I believe, with administrative experience of the gas industry in this House, I have naturally taken an active part on occasions in these matters in Parliament. On the subject of the Debate in question, a week ago to-day I was approached here by Colonel Carr, the managing director of the company promoting the Yorkshire gas grid, who is a personal friend of many years standing. He laid the facts of their Bill, now in Parliament, before me. After going into the circumstances very thoroughly I readily offered to represent their case in the Debate on Thursday— 930 an offer which was gladly accepted. In these circumstances the remarks of the hon. Member were quite clearly unjustified, and necessitated this statement arid my troubling the House to-day.
§ Mr. LunnI never had any intention or desire to contravene the rules of this House or the Rulings of the Chair, and this is my seventh Parliament. I am a most obedient Member. But on Thursday night last we were considering a Bill, the West Yorkshire Gas Bill, with conflicting evidence and statements regarding public and private interests. This is a very big Bill. It embraces 19 different companies. It is a gigantic monopoly which is being created. It affects not only the West Riding, but also the North and East Ridings, and during the Debate a good deal was said regarding some negotiations between the company and the North Riding County Council. When the hon. Member came to reply I thought he showed an unusual knowledge of the Bill, He started his speech by saying, "My instructions are," and then he went on to say further down:
I have here the original document of the suggested draft clause for an agreement. I have all the coloured inks to which my hon. Friend referred, with the appropriate dates. That document was sent between solicitors, between legal people on both sides, with a view to coming to an agreement. The last one was green amendments from Ellis and Ellis, on 14th May, 1938. In response to that, the promoters' legal advisers promptly telephoned and said they could not agree to the green amendments. Therefore, no agreement was ever reached.After a good deal of interruption the hon. Member went on to explain the Bill very fully. He said:The company, which is asking for certain statutory powers, is the first to link up a national gas grid in this area. There has been a gas grid in Sheffield which has worked very successfully. There are 19 undertakers with four coke ovens. The proposal is that the gas is to be put into this grid, and taken out and distributed by those statutory undertakers who have now powers to distribute. That is a point to which I wish to refer in a moment. Investigation which has taken place in that area shows that there is a large potential industrial demand which is estimated to be at least double the present demand for the area. The situation is that the supply of gas in detail will be carried on by the 19 undertakers who have that power, but their plant is equivalent only to a domestic supply. They did not and have not visualised the potential industrial developments, and the need for a cheap gas for industrial fuel—which is coal, our native fuel, conveyed in pipes.''—[OFFICIAL REPORT, 7th July, 1938; cols. 694–696, Vol. 338.]931 After that speech, which I have not quoted in full, though it is all on the same lines, I want to say that I do not dispute making the statement which the hon. Member has mentioned to-day, but I want to add that I made the statement in good faith on the facts as I thought I knew them at the time. Only to-day a member of the company of which the hon. Gentleman was chairman up to a few months ago has been to see me to tell me that the hon. Member is not the chairman at this time. Of course I accept the statement of the hon. Member that he is not interested in the manner that I described; naturally I do that. I have no desire to be offensive to any Members of the House; it is not my nature. I wish to say that I would rather be good friends with each one of them, and with the hon. Member for Newport (Sir R. Clarry) than have their enmity. I repeat that the statement I made was made in perfect good faith at the time.
§ Sir R. ClarryIn view of the further remarks of the hon. Gentleman to-day I should like, with your permission, Mr. Speaker, to say one further sentence. The hon. Member referred to my being the chairman of a company. The only reference that I can think the hon. Member is making is to a non-trading association of which I was executive chairman until last summer, but that appointment had nothing whatever to do with Parliament or this House, and only remotely with the gas industry. As a matter of fact, I held that appointment for seven years, and I accepted it when I was not even a Member of this House, in June, 1930. It is quite irrelevant.