HC Deb 07 July 1938 vol 338 cc783-6

Lords Amendment: In page 81, line 26, at the end, insert: or deprive him of the benefit of any covenant condition or provision of a subsisting working lease affecting or relating to any premises other than coal.

12.57 a.m.

The Attorney-General

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment completes the paragraph which says that the lease shall not impose any liability not being a liability to which any person would have been subject by virtue of a subsisting working lease. I think it is correctly drafted.

Lords Amendment: In page 81, line 38, leave out from the beginning to "any," in line 22, and insert: The said lease shall, notwithstanding anything in subsection (2) of section eleven of this Act, not include".

12.58 a.m.

Captain Crookshank

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is a drafting Amendment.

Lords Amendment: In page 82, line 1, leave out paragraph (3).

Captain Crookshank

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment is consequential on a previous Amendment.

Lords Amendment: In page 82, line 36, leave out "Board of Trade," and insert: Lord Chancellor in the case of England or the Lord President of the Court of Session in the case of Scotland.

Captain Crookshank

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This is the Schedule dealing with consolidation schemes, and provides that, if there is no agreement, then the Commission or person concerned may refer the matter to an arbitrator. As the Bill left us, it said that the arbitrator should be selected by the Board of Trade. During our debates the hon. and learned Member for Ashford (Mr. Spens) was very anxious that the person who should nominate this arbitrator should be the President of the Law Society. We did not consider that would be suitable, and the other House has sent down, in this Amendment, the suggestion that the Lord Chancellor should be the person who appoints the arbitrator. I see no reason why that should be resisted in this case.

1 a.m.

Sir S. Cripps

This is not a very important point, perhaps, but I do not see any reason why we should give way to the House of Lords in regard to it. It is a matter of the settlement of the standard amount of rent. It is not a question of law, but of valuation, and surely the Board of Trade, who are the customary people to deal with mining matters in this country are the more suitable body to name the arbitrator to settle the standard amount of rent. The Lord Chancellor, poor fellow, as we have heard, cannot find one by going to the Central Valuation Board. It is hard luck to put on him the onus of finding an arbitrator. The Board of Trade and the Secretary for Mines would far better be able than the Lord Chancellor to select a suitable person for this purpose. It is not as if there were any legal point to be settled, and I suggest that under this Clause, as the hon and learned Member for Ashford (Mr. Spens) says he agrees with me—

Mr. Spens

No.

Sir S. Cripps

Then I must be right.

Mr. Spens

This is one of the most complicated legal matters. This is a scheme for the consolidation of a number of leases into one lease as a result of the transference to the Commission of the whole. I hope the Government will still support the Amendment.

Lords Amendment: In page 83, line 2, leave out "Board of Trade" and insert: Lord Chancellor in the case of England or the Lords President of the Court of Session in the case of Scotland.

Captain Crookshank

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

Sir S. Cripps

This is the case to which the hon. and learned Member for Ashford (Mr. Spens) referred. Here is a complicated matter to be settled, and we should have no objection in this case—this being a legal matter—to the Lord Chancellor appointing the arbitrator.

Lords Amendment: In page 83, line 3, leave out "who is competent to grant a lease in the terms of a draft" and insert: whose grant or concurrence is requisite to the taking effect of a lease.

1.2 a.m.

The Attorney-General

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This Amendment and the next two Amendments are minor drafting alterations.

Subsequent Lords Amendments to page 83, line 6, agreed to.

Lords Amendment: In page 83, line 17, leave out paragraph 9, and insert: (3) The provisions of section ten of this Act shall have effect in relation to a severance effected by the determination of a subsisting working lease under the last preceding sub-paragraph as regards a part of the premises comprised therein, as they have effect in relation to such a severance as is mentioned in that section of the reversion on a lease subsisting on the vesting date, so however that the apportionment of the rent reserved by the subsisting working lease shall be made on the basis of the apportionment made for the purpose of the determination under this Schedule of the standard amount of rent.

The Attorney-General

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This part of the Bill deals with the consolidation scheme before the vesting date. There may be some problem with regard to the severance of coal and surface rights. That matter is dealt with in Clause 10. This Amendment is simply the necessary paragraph to enable the provision of that Section to be applied to the problem when it arises under the consolidation scheme, which under the old rule would be referred to the Fourth Schedule.

Lords Amendment: In page 84, line 21, leave out from "Commission" to the end of the Schedule, and insert: under and subject to the provisions of this paragraph: Provided that, in relation to costs payable by virtue of sub-paragraph (3) of paragraph 8 of this Schedule, the provisions of section ten of this Act shall have effect to the exclusion of the provisions of this paragraph. (2) In case of difference as to the amount of the costs other than costs of a reference or award, to be paid under this paragraph, the Board of Trade may direct in what manner they are to be taxed. (3) An arbitrator may direct that the Commission shall not be liable to pay any such costs as aforesaid, being costs of a reference or award incurred by a party to a reference who appears to the arbitrator to have been guilty of any such unreasonable failure to agree with the Commission or any other party, or of any such negligence or default, as to disentitle him to payment thereof.

The Attorney-General

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."

This, again, is a purely drafting Amendment. These provisions originally occurred in the Fourth Schedule and were incorporated in this Schedule by reference, the Fourth Schedule having been abolished. This is the first time for them to appear here.