HC Deb 14 February 1938 vol 331 cc1669-72

(1) Any seaman, marine, soldier, or airman who is discharged or dismissed in consequence of having been convicted on any proceedings under the Naval Discipline Act, the Army Act, or the Air Force Act, or by any civil court, shall be subject to the like disqualification for receiving benefit under the enactments relating to unemployment insurance in force in Northern Ireland as is imposed in relation to benefit under the Unemployment Insurance Acts, 1935 and 1936, by Sub-section (3) of Section thirty of the principal Act; and the provisions of the said Sub-section (3) as to evidence of such discharge or dismissal shall apply for the purposes of such enactments as they apply in relation to claims for benefit under the said Acts.

(2) The provisions of this Act other than this Section shall not extend to Northern Ireland save in so far as they affect the provisions of the principal Act which extend to Northern Ireland.

10.32 p.m.

Mr. Butler

I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment." This and the next are drafting Amendments to apply to Northern Ireland the Amendment of the principal Act contained in Clause 5 (2), as it left this House.

Mr. Kelly

Why is it that we are asked to apply this Clause and no other portion of this Bill to Northern Ireland? It is very strange that the one application of this to Northern Ireland is to ensure that the penalty is imposed upon these men that they may be deprived of benefit.

10.33 p.m.

Colonel Nathan

How does it come about that the Amendment from another place, on page 5, line 20, which this House has already accepted as one of the Lords Amendments, is not reproduced in the Sub-section referring to Northern Ireland, so that when the Bill becomes a Statute the two Sub-sections will not run parallel, by reason of the omission from the Northern Ireland Clause of the words which have been inserted into the Bill as a whole?

Mr. Butler

The reason is that this Amendment is applied to the Bill as we have amended it and reproduces in all the necessary parts provisions similar to what they are in this country for Northern Ireland.

Colonel Nathan

As far as I can gather, the two Sub-sections are the same except that there is omitted from the Subsection relating to Northern Ireland the words: or to any person who is discharged on account of fraudulent enlistment. which have been inserted in Sub-section (2) of Clause 5.

10.35 p.m.

Mr. Butler

I am assured that this Bill will apply in all fairness to Northern Ireland. I cannot say any more than that, but I have had that assurance. I see the point of the hon. and gallant Gentleman, but I am sure that this is an equitable arrangement for Northern Ireland. As regards the point of the hon. Member for Rochdale (Mr. Kelly), I cannot accept that this Bill will have the effect that he makes out. If he will refer to the words of my right hon. Friend in moving the Second Reading, he will see that these provisions are an improvement on the existing Statutes and make things better for the man who leaves the Service. Under the old provisions, if a man left the Service at his own will, he was deprived of the right of benefit. The effect of this Measure will be to create an improved position for the man on leaving the Service.

10.37 p.m.

Mr. Lawson

I am satisfied that provision is an improvement. Sub-section 5 (2) deals with Sub-section (7) of Section 96 of the principal Act, which says: Nothing in this Section shall apply to any seaman, marine, soldier or airman who is a deserter or who is discharged or dismissed in consequence of having been convicted on any proceedings under the Naval Discipline Act, the Army Act or the Air Force Act, or by any civil court, or to any person who is discharged on account of fraudulent enlistment. That Sub-section deprives the soldier who is in trouble of the benefits of his contributions. What is being done by Clause 5 is to omit that Sub-section from the Statute and to credit a man with his contributions irrespective of any trouble he may have been in. This Amendment applies that benefit to the soldiers concerned in Northern Ireland.

Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to.—[Special Entry.]