HC Deb 14 February 1938 vol 331 cc1534-6
72. Mr. T. Johnston

asked the Minister of Health whether his medical advisers can provide him with an approximate estimate of the cost of sickness falling upon the taxpayer and the ratepayer because of the absence of any guaranteed provision of dental benefit to persons insured under the National Health Insurance Acts; and what would be the approximate cost to the Treasury of providing dental benefits to members of such approved societies as are unable because of their sickness experience to supply these dental benefits?

Mr. Bernays

I am afraid that it is impossible to give any reliable estimate of the cost of sickness attributable to the cause referred to by the right hon. Gentleman. At present approved societies covering about 75 per cent. of the insured population are able to pay some proportion of the cost of dental treatment of their members, but it would not be safe to estimate on a proportionate basis the cost of providing the benefit for members of the remaining 25 per cent. as it would depend on many factors, such as the number of members of those societies requiring treatment on which sufficient information is not available. It would, in any case, be impossible to justify an arrangement under which, while the majority of societies paid from their own savings, the remainder had the benefit provided for them from public funds.

73. Mr. Johnston

asked the Minister of Health whether, in view of the national fitness campaign, he can take any steps to provide that all insured persons, paying the same rates of national heath contribution through one or other of the approved societies, shall have equal rights to dental benefits, irrespective of the average sickness experience of the group of insured persons with whom individual insured persons have been segregated?

Mr. Bernays

If the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman is that the cost of providing dental benefit on a uniform basis to all insured persons should be made a charge on the funds of such societies as have disposable surpluses, I am afraid that such a proposal would be entirely unacceptable to all but a small minority of societies. If, on the other hand, he has in mind a new statutory benefit necessarily requiring new moneys, I must remind him that such a proposal could only be considered in relation to demands for other major extensions of the National Health Insurance Scheme when the time is opportune.

Mr. Johnston

Are we to understand that the Government propose to continue

ENGLAND AND WALES.
Public Elementary Schools maintained by Local Education Authorities.
Areas under County Councils.
Number of Departments, by type of department, with number of pupils, in Urban and Rural parts of Counties, 31st March, 1937.
— Reorganised departments. Unreorganised departments. Grand Total.
Senior. Junior. Infants. All-Age with Senior Divisions. Total. All-Age without Senior Divisions.
Urban:
Number of Departments 686 1,467 1,564 327 4,044 1,891 5,935
Pupils under 11 2,297 294,728 228,969 38,791 564,785 186,381 751,166
Pupils 11 and over 190,754 28,936 12 35,428 255,130 144,703 399,833
Rural:
Number of Departments 209 2,112 763 555 3,639 7,26 10,965
Pupils under 11 1,740 128,605 69,820 37,363 237,28 356,900 594,2
Pupils 11 and over 42,988 11,030 10 30,489 84,17 214,236 298,53
Since 31st March, 1937, 26 new senior departments have been opened in urban parts and 19 in rural parts of counties, and proposals for 138 such departments, of which 109 are in urban and 29 in rural parts have been approved.

a system of differentiation under which all insured persons pay the same contributions but only a proportion, say 75 per cent., of them get dental benefits and the remaining 25 per cent. do not?

Mr. Bernays

The Government cannot control the expenditure of the approved societies.

Mr. Rhys Davies

Is it not realised that if the hon. Member and his chief would be good enough to restore to the approved societies the reduction in State grants which was made five years ago, all which is asked for could be done with ease?