§ 8.15 p.m.
§ Mr. Erskine HillI beg to move, in page 5, line 4, at the end, to add:
(d) for Sub-section (2) of Section three there shall be substituted the following Subsection:The object of this Amendment is to meet a similar situation to that which has been met by the adoption of the Amendment moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) relating to the remuneration of English registrars. It proposes to carry out, in so far as that can be done—the two laws being different—the same remedy in the case of Scotland. The Births, Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Act of 1854, divided registrars in Scotland into two classes, namely, those who were paid by fees and those who were paid by salary. In fact, close on 8 per cent. of the registrars in Scotland are paid by fees and approximately 92 per cent. are paid by salary. With regard to those who are paid by fees no difficulty arises. A fee-paid registrar can apply to the Registrar-General for an increase of his fees and if the Registrar-General sees fit to do so, he can make an order on the local authority to pay the increase. If the local authority refuses or delays then the matter is remitted to the Sheriff whose decision is final. It is with regard to the 92 per cent. who are paid by salary that the Amendment is moved, in order to secure a statutory method of revising the salaries of those officials. The effect will be to enable salaried registrars to have their remuneration revised on the same principle as that at present applied in the case 130 of registrars who are paid by fees. The Committee has already adopted the Amendment of my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton dealing with the case of the English registrars and I submit that that is a good reason for passing this Amendment. I should add that the Scottish Registrars Association are in favour of this Amendment.
- (2) Section eighteen of the Registration of Births, Deaths and Marriages (Scotland) Act, 1860 (which relates to the increase of remuneration of Registrars), shall have effect as if, after the words 'fiftieth section,' there were inserted the words 'or of the fifty-first section.'"
§ 8.19 p.m.
§ Mr. Pethick-LawrenceI wish to ask the hon. and learned Member whether he has received a communication from the Association of County Councils in Scotland with regard to this matter? As I understand the position, they do not wish the Registrar-General to have the power of interference with local authorities in regard to the salaries of these officers and they would like an Amendment in a different form. The hon. and learned Gentleman made no reference to that in his speech, and I wish to ask him whether he cannot see his way to meet the wishes of the Association of County Councils. They suggest an Amendment in this form—to insert:
Any additional salary or fees payable to registrars arising out of or in consequence of this Act shall be fixed and determined by the Registrar-General of Scotland.Perhaps the hon. and learned Member or the Under-Secretary of State for Scotland will explain what the position is and how far the suggestion of the Association of County Councils in Scotland is met by the Amendment now before the Committee.
§ Mr. Erskine HillI should say that I did receive the communication from the Association of County Councils to which the right hon. Gentleman refers. I did not mention it because I thought that their suggested Amendment would be out of order. What my Amendment seeks to do is to make a minor extension of an existing principle. What the suggested Amendment seeks to do is to alter the principle altogether.
§ 8.22 p.m.
The Under-Secretary of State for Scotland (Mr. Wedderburn)A short time ago the Committee accepted an Amendment moved by my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Mr. Turton) enabling the fees of English registrars to be increased. In England it is possible under the existing law for those registrars who are paid by salary to 131 have their remuneration reviewed in accordance with the amount of work performed, but it is not possible to have fees reviewed. The Committee has now accepted an Amendment which will enable fees also to be reviewed. In Scotland the position is at present the reverse. As my hon. and learned Friend the Mover of the Amendment has explained, it is possible under the existing law of Scotland to review the remuneration of those registrars who are paid by fees but there is no provision for the review of remuneration in the case of salaried registrars. Under the Act of 1860, a registrar in Scotland who is dissatisfied with the amount of his fees can appeal to the Registrar General who may direct the local authority to raise his remuneration. If the local authority should not agree to do so, then, as my hon. and learned Friend has pointed out, the question is decided in the last resort by the Sheriff.
The effect of the present Amendment would be to put salaried registrars in Scotland in exactly the same position as those who are paid by fees. Precisely, the same procedure under the Act of 1860 would then apply to salaries and to fees. I think my hon. and learned Friend has given an adequate reply to the question put by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for East Edinburgh (Mr. Pethick-Lawrence). Any such Amendment as that suggested by the right hon. Gentleman would be out of order and I cannot see any reason for drawing a distinction between those functions of the registrar which have always been remunerated by the local authorities and the addition to those functions which would ensue from this Bill. If the present Amendment were not accepted, I think the Scottish registrars would be put at an unfair disadvantage as compared with the English registrars, and I should therefore advise the Committee to accept the Amendment.
§ Amendment agreed to.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed. "That the Clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."
§ 8.26 p.m.
§ Mr. EdeThis is the one Clause that the Minister did not propose to amend, and I was going to ask him whether he would consider, before the Report stage, the fact that in this case "Registrar General" is spelled without a hyphen, 132 whereas elsewhere throughout the Bill, and on the Amendment Paper, "Registrar-General" is spelled with a hyphen. I know that one Noble Lord in another place takes great delight in making these small verbal alterations in Bills sent up to that House, and I hope it will be possible for this Bill, now that it has been subject to such scrutiny, at least to be consistent with itself.
§ Sir K. WoodI take careful note of what the hon. Gentleman has said, and I congratulate him on the amount of leisure that he must have had at his disposal.