SPAIN.

HC Deb 05 December 1938 vol 342 cc837-45

5. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister whether he has any statement to make concerning the bombing of the British ship "Lake Hallwil" and the nationality of the attacking aircraft?

Mr. Butler

According to my Noble Friend's information, in the course of an air raid on the Port of Barcelona at 8.0 a.m. on the 13th November, the British steamship "Lake Hallwil" was struck by a bomb. There is no indication of the identity of the attacking aircraft.

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

Have the Government called for any Special report with a view to finding out the nationality of the aircraft which attacked the ship?

Mr. Butler

We are awaiting a more detailed report on this raid, in which case I will try to supply the hon. and gallant Member with more information.

9. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister in how many cases any satisfaction has been received as a result of protests addressed to General Franco in respect of attacks upon British ships, or interference with British property, on the high seas; and whether any action other than protest is feasible and contemplated?

Mr. Butler

Satisfaction has been received in response to representations in a considerable number of the cases referred to by the hon. and gallant Member. As I stated on 14th November, His Majesty's Government will continue to afford protection as hitherto to British ships on the high seas.

Mr. Shinwell

Does "satisfaction" mean that compensation has actually been paid by General Franco?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir.

Mr. Shinwell

Will the hon. Gentleman explain what "satisfaction" means?

Mr. Butler

In the cases referred to by the hon. and gallant Member, there have been nine foreign ships with British interests in them detained in recent months and subsequently released as a result of our representations.

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

Will the hon. Gentleman say why he feels satisfaction, since there was no legal cause whatsoever for the detention of these ships?

Mr. Butler

We regard it as satisfactory that these ships have been released.

Mr. George Griffiths

Anything will satisfy the Government.

Mr. Noel-Baker

Are we to understand that the Government do not intend to claim compensation for the time lost by these ships?

Mr. Butler

That is under consideration at the present time.

14. Mr. Arthur Henderson

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the recent outbreak of piracy in the Mediterranean involving the seizure of British cargoes by the Spanish insurgent authorities, His Majesty's Government will convene a conference of the Nyon Powers to agree upon the necessary collective measures against such piratical acts; and what action His Majesty's Government have meanwhile taken to protect British property against similar piratical interference?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. The protests and representations made by His Majesty's Government to the Burgos authorities have resulted in the release of foreign ships in which there are British interests. His Majesty's Government will continue to press for satisfaction in outstanding cases. They regard the Nyon measures as dealing with a different class of case to which they will continue to be applied.

Mr. Henderson

Will the hon. Gentleman answer the latter part of my question?

Mr. Butler

I have just said that we have made protests and representations, and that in many cases these have been successful.

Mr. Henderson

Is it not evident that the Spanish insurgent authorities are arrogating to themselves belligerent rights; and do His Majesty's Government attempt to take any action to protect British ships and British property?

Mr. Butler

In these cases—even if we agreed on the question of belligerent rights—the ships are not British ships.

Mr. Shinwell

Can the hon. Gentleman say whether in cases of British cargoes being detained and additional costs being imposed in consequence, compensation is to be paid?

Mr. Butler

That is a matter which, as I have informed the hon. Member for Derby (Mr. Noel-Baker), is under consideration at the present time.

Mr. G. Strauss

Whether these are British ships or not, is it not to the interest of the British Government to see that there is no piracy on the seas?

Mr. Butler

Certainly it is to our interest to see that British cargoes and British interests generally are looked after, and that is what we are endeavouring to do.

Vice-Admiral Taylor

Do not British ships enter Spanish ports at their own risk?

Mr. Henderson

Owing to the unsatisfactory nature of the reply to this question, I beg to give notice that I will raise the matter on the Motion for the Adjournment.

21. Mr. W. Roberts

asked the Prime Minister the date on which the Burgos authorities informed His Majesty's Government that they had accepted the formula of an immedlate inquiry, and the immedlate payment of compensation, in those cases in which an inquiry by two naval officers found that an attack upon a British vessel had been deliberate?

23. Mr. Bartlett

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government propose to press for the immedlate payment of claims for damage done by Spanish insurgent bombs to ships flying the Red Ensign and carrying on lawful trade with Spain?

Mr. Butler

The date on which the Burgos authorities informed His Majesty's Government that they accepted in principle the proposed investigation was 20th July. After some time spent in exchanging views with the shipping interests concerned, agreement was reached to submit certain proposals to Burgos, whence the British Agent reports that an answer is shortly to be expected.

Mr. Roberts

Is not the position to-day precisely as it was on 20th July?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir, because we are shortly expecting to receive a reply to a scheme put forward after consultation with British interests.

Mr. Roberts

Were you not expecting to receive it on 20th July?

Mr. Butler

We did not then have the advantage of having discussed the matter closely with the British interests concerned.

Mr. Bartlett

Is it not a fact that on half-a-dozen occasions during the past century the British Government did make immedlate claims for compensation and take action when that compensation was not forthcoming?

Mr. Butler

I should be grateful if the hon. Member would give me those instances, so that I may examine them.

22. Mr. W. Roberts

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the provisions of the Naval Treaty of London and of the importance to Great Britain in time of war of the maintenance of neutral shipping, he will undertake to consult the principal mercantile marine Powers, and, in particular, the United States of America, before agreeing to the exercise by the parties to the Spanish civil war of belligerent rights against neutral vessels by aircraft?

Mr. Butler

Neither of the London Naval Treaties has any bearing on the use of aircraft in connection with belligerent rights. His Majesty's Government are fully alive to the importance of neutral shipping in time of war. While realising the importance of the issues raised by the lion. Member, I am not in a position to give any definite undertaking.

Mr. Roberts

Does not the very fact that the London Treaty does not consider the use of aircraft make it all the more important to consult the United States Government before any precedents are set up in regard to belligerent rights?

Mr. Butler

I have assured the hon. Gentleman that we appreciate the importance of the question, but I am not in a position to give the definite undertaking for which he asks.

27. Mr. Shinwell

asked the Prime Minister whether the Non-Intervention Committee has information as to the number of volunteers from Portugal who are serving with the forces of General Franco; and whether any measures are being taken for their withdrawal?

Mr. Butler

The answer to the first part of the question is in the negative. The Non-Intervention Committee's plan provides for the withdrawal of all foreign nationals from both sides in Spain.

Mr. Shinwell

Has the Non-Intervention Committee no information as to the number of Portuguese volunteers?

Mr. Butler

I am informed that the Committee as a whole has not received this information.

Mr. Shinwell

Is the hon. Gentleman not aware that there are Portuguese volunteers serving with the forces of General Franco?

Mr. Butler

I should want notice of that question.

Mr. T. Williams

When was the last meeting of the Committee, and when are they going to meet again?

Mr. Butler

That, also, is a question of which I should require notice.

28. Mr. G. Strauss

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the Government is in possession of information that military assistance has been given to General Franco from Italy and Germany during the last two months, he will place this breach of the Non-Intervention Agreement before the Non-Intervention Committee?

Mr. Butler

An alleged breach of the Non-Intervention Agreement brought before the Committee must be based on exact information for which the Government raising the matter must make itself responsible. His Majesty's Government would not be justified in taking the initlative proposed in this case.

Mr. Strauss

What do the Government mean when they say that they have information that military help has been given to General Franco by Germany and Italy; does that mean inaccurate information?

Mr. Butler

No, it does not. It means that our information comes from sources which it is difficult to confirm, and that our information on this matter is not as detailed and exact as it may be on other matters.

Mr. J. J. Davidson

Does that indicate that the Government hesitate to use or cannot use the reports of their military observers in Spain with regard to any specific subject?

Mr. Butler

I have said that our information comes from a variety of sources, and I am satisfied that we should not be justified in acting in the way desired.

Mr. Thurtle

Then of what use is this information unless it can be made use of afterwards?

Mr. Butler

It is of use to His Majesty's Government.

31. Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

asked the Prime Minister whether he has received from General Franco an explanation of the mistake which led to the seizure of ships carrying grain for the British Government?

Mr. Butler

No, Sir. A full report has not yet been received from the British Agent at Burgos.

Lieut.-Commander Fletcher

Have the Government considered the desirability of cargoes ordered by the British Government being carried in British bottoms, eSpecially when British ships are so much in need of freights?

Mr. Butler

This matter has been and should be raised with the Board of Trade.

Mr. A. V. Alexander

Is the hon. Gentleman aware that since the release of the "Mount Cynthos" and the "Nitsa," some 15 other ships with British cargoes have been seized and taken into Cadiz or Malaga or other ports, and what representations have been made with regard to those ships?

Mr. Butler

I should not like to accept without notice the exactitude of the right hon. Gentleman's information. I have answered a question to-day, which shows that there were other cases before and that nine ships have been released, but I do not think it is right to say that 15 have been detained since then.

Mr. Alexander

But surely the Under-Secretary or the Government know that the Government themselves are responsible for the chartering of some 26 ships up to the moment for wheat cargoes alone, and that of these 18 are Greek or Yugo-Slavlan ships?

Mr. Butler

I am aware of that, but I should require notice to give exact information as to the numbers which have been detained.

Sir Archibald Sinclair

Is it the position that these ships carrying British cargoes can be arrested, detained for eight or nine days, and then released, and that the Government say they are completely satisfied?

Mr. Butler

I have not said that we are completely satisfied. The Government are satisfied to this extent, that in a number of cases the ships have been released.

Mr. Attlee

What is happening in the other cases, because I take it that the hon. Member intends to get satisfaction in all these cases? It is no good telling the House that he is satisfied about some and leaving the others.

Mr. Butler

The other cases are being actively dealt with, and I hope we shall receive satisfaction.

Mr. Alexander

Is not the hon. Gentleman aware that General Franco is interfering with the food of the world, and of this country in particular, in order to ensure the starving of republican Spain?

Mr. Butler

I have given the information in my possession. I consider that the statement about 15 ships having been recently detained is very much exaggerated, but I am ready in answer to a specific question to give detailed information.

Mr. W. Roberts

On a point of Order. Could the hon. Gentleman give the information at the end of questions of the number of ships that are being detained?

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member had better put down another question.

33. Mr. Davidson

asked the Prime Minister the total number of officers and men of the British mercantile marine who have been killed in bombing raids while engaged in legitimate trade with Government Spain; and the number who have been buried on Spanish territory since July, 1936?

Mr. Butler

I regret to say that since the beginning of the present hostilities the casualties as a result of bombing raids to British and foreign personnel in British ships in Spanish Government ports have been 30 killed. So far as I know, all the bodies have been buried in Spain when recovered.

Mr. Davidson

Will the hon. Gentleman look at the question, which deals with legitimate trade and say whether he is satisfied that the number of deaths would have been more but for the protection afforded to them by the Spanish Government?

Mr. Butler

Protection has been afforded in the form of shelters about which His Majesty's Government have been in touch with the authorities of the ports concerned.

Mr. Davidson

Have the British Government made any contribution towards the erection of these shelters for the safety of British sailors?

Mr. Butler

No, they have been erected by the authorities.

Mr. Shinwell

Is it nothing to the British Government that 30 officers and men of the Mercantile Marine should be killed when engaging in lawful trade?

Mr. Butler

Yes, it is a very serious matter, and that is why the British Government have warned ships trading with these ports of the serious risks they run.

34. Mr. Davidson

asked the Prime Minister whether His Majesty's Government have considered, or will consider, the utilisation of the British Commission for the exchange of prisoners for the purpose of obtaining medlation between the contending parties in the Spanish dispute?

Mr. Butler

His Majesty's Government consider that a successful outcome of the exchange negotlations which are the proper province of the Commission are more likely to be achieved if the Commission refrains from embarking at the same time on negotlations of another character.

Mr. Davidson

Have His Majesty's Government in mind the utilisation of any such committee for the purpose mentioned in the question?

Mr. Butler

His Majesty's Government have always been ready to render their good offices at a suitable moment.

Mr. Davidson

Have they made any approaches to either of the contending parties in Spain?

Mr. Butler

They have been continuously in touch with both sides.