HC Deb 05 April 1938 vol 334 cc167-9
8. Mr. Creech Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs on what grounds representation by Africans on the standing joint advisory conference between the South African Union Government and the High Commission Territories has been denied?

The Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs (Mr. Malcolm MacDonald)

I would refer the hon. Member to the replies which I gave on this point on 29th March. It seems best that the territories should be represented by the three Resident Commissioners, who are, of course, well qualified to look after the interests of the natives of the territories on the conference.

Mr. Creech Jones

The question I put was as to the grounds on which a decision was taken. I want to know what are the reasons which actuated the Minister in reaching this decision?

Mr. MacDonald

If the hon. Member will study the answer which I gave on 29th March he will find the grounds stated there.

Mr. Creech Jones

I have studied the reply, and I am yet at a loss to know what the Minister's grounds were. May I ask whether these people who are vitally concerned with this decision and with the development of the economic resources of their Territories have not a right to be represented on such a conference?

Mr. MacDonald

The natives are certainly vitally concerned, but I think that their interests can well be looked after by the Resident Commissioners. The hon. Member will appreciate that if the principle of native representation were accepted, it would be impossible to appoint just one native representative of the three Territories. We should have to have at least one native representative for each of the Territories. The question of the representation of European interests would then arise, and that would mean two or three additional people being appointed to the conference. Then the representation of European interests outside the Territories would arise, for the conference has to consider matters of economic concern not only to the Territories but to the Union, and it would quickly become much larger than we think desirable in all the circumstances.

Mr. Paling

Is it not rather curious that the Africans themselves, whose country it is and whose welfare is probably to be changed, are not to be allowed even a representative and are not to have a say in a business which so vitally affects them?

Mr. MacDonald

Their interests have been watched over very carefully by the Resident Commissioners in the past, and they will continue to watch them in the future.

Mr. Attlee

Would it not be possible to appoint some prominent African—whether for the Territories or not would not matter—to represent the natives instead of merely appointing people who think they know what is best for them?

Mr. MacDonald

It would be impossible to appoint one individual for all the Territories. I cannot repeat the answer I have just given; I can only say in answer to the right hon. Gentleman that these are the considerations that we have in mind.

Mr. Mander

Would it be in order for the advisory conference, if it thought fit, to co-opt one or more natives to serve?

Mr. MacDonald

If the conference wanted to make that or any other suggestion I would consider it very carefully.

9. Mr. Creech Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether he will assure the House that the transfer of the South African Protectorates will not take place not only until the wishes of the natives of the Territories have been carefully considered, but also until their acquiescence has been obtained?

Mr. MacDonald

The pledges which have been given by His Majesty's Government in the United Kingdom on this subject are fully set out in the Command Paper Cmd. 4948, and there is no question of varying them.

Mr. Creech Jones

In view of the terms of the right hon. Gentleman's reply last week that the views of the natives would be considered, does that imply that the consent of the natives has to be obtained before transfer is effected?

Mr. MacDonald

I think that the position is perfectly secure, because under our pledges the last word rests with Parliament here, and it will be for Parliament to make up its mind as to what constitutes circumstances regarding native opinion which might or might not justify the transfer of territory.

10. Mr. Creech Jones

asked the Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs whether His Majesty's Government has made any observations to the Government of the Union of South Africa as to the bearing of the Statute of Westminster on the provisions of the Schedule of the South Africa Act, 1909, in respect to the proposed terms on which the transfer of the government of the High Commission Territories would take place and the conditions under which the Territories would be governed?

Mr. MacDonald

This point was referred to in the memorandum handed to General Smuts in 1933 which forms the appendix to the Command Paper Cmd. 4948, and it has been kept in mind in the recent discussions with General Hertzog.