HC Deb 09 November 1937 vol 328 cc1591-2
69. Mr. Cassells

asked the Secretary of State for Scotland whether his attention has been drawn to the condition of a juvenile after a birching order, made in Falkirk Sheriff Court on Monday, 1st October, had been carried out, whereby the child was unable to attend school; and, if so, is he prepared meantime, pending receipt of the committee's report on the subject of birching, to order that no such orders should be passed until this House reconsiders the whole matter?

Mr. Elliot

I have seen a newspaper report regarding the whipping of a juvenile in Falkirk on Monday, 1st November, which I assume to be the case to which the hon. Member refers. I have made inquiry regarding the case and am informed that the boy was medically examined before the whipping and was certified to be physically fit to undergo the punishment by a doctor who was present while it was carried out. I am further informed that the boy resumed attendance at school on the following morning and was seen by the headmaster, who was satisfied that he was in a fit condition to proceed with his lessons. As a committee has been appointed to consider the question of corporal punishment, I do not think that any general action on my part is desirable or practicable at the present time.

Mr. Cassells

Does the right hon. Gentleman really consider that any serious prejudice would eventuate by the adoption of the step which I suggest in this question?

Miss Wilkinson

Does the right hon. Gentleman not think it time that the torture of children should be stopped?

Mr. McGovern

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that an agent of the name of Cassells applied to a sheriff to make a birching order in one of the courts of Scotland, and can he say whether this is the same Member who asked the question on the Paper?

Mr. Cassells

Will the right hon. Gentleman answer my supplementary question with regard to the question of probable prejudice?

Mr. Elliot

I should have thought it was answered in the concluding portion of my original answer, that I do not think any general action on my part is desirable in view of the investigation of the whole matter by a committee.

Mr. Cassells

Arising out of the unsatisfactory character of that reply, I beg to give notice that at the first available moment I shall raise this question on the Motion for the Adjournment.

Mr. Bellenger

On a point of Order. Is it in order for one hon. Member to make an implication such as has just been made by the hon. Member below the Gangway, when the hon. Member is not able to give an answer in this House?

Mr. McGovern

I certainly raised a question that has been in the minds of a large number of people, that an agent of the name of Mr. Cassells did apply to a sheriff in Scotland to apply a birching order, and I am asking whether the same Member asked the question here or not. He has an opportunity of either refuting it or agreeing to it.

Mr. Speaker

The hon. Member's question is quite out of order, and I should have ruled it out when he put it.

Mr. Kirkwood

On a point of Order. Arising from the original reply, the Minister stated—

Mr. Speaker

Is it a new point of Order?

Mr. Kirkwood

On a point of Order. The Minister, in his reply, stated that the doctor had stated that this boy was a fit subject for birching. My point of Order is this, that I want to know from the Minister, who has been trained—

Mr. Speaker

That is not a point of Order.