HC Deb 09 March 1937 vol 321 cc979-82
Mr. Attlee

(by Private Notice) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is in a position to make any statement with regard to the negotiations which have been proceeding with the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee on the compensation to be paid to the owners of coal royalties in the event of their unification?

Mr. Chamberlain

Negotiations have been proceeding for some time between His Majesty's Government and the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee, but I regret that it has been found impossible to reach agreement on the amount of the compensation to be paid in the event of the statutory unification of coal royalties. However, both parties are agreed that the proper basis of compensation would be the fixing of a global sum equivalent to the value of the whole property to be acquired, which would be divided proportionally among the various owners, according to the relative values of their property. His Majesty's. Government have therefore decided, in agreement with the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee, to appoint a tribunal to determine the value of the whole property concerned, on the basis of a sale in the open market by a willing seller. The members of the tribunal will be:

  • Lord Justice Greene (Chairman),
  • Mr. Justice Clauson, and
  • Lord Plender.
With regard to the objects to be served by the Tribunal's decision, it is agreed that the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee will accept the decision as representing the compensation properly payable to the owners for the property in the event of His Majesty's Government proceeding with their present proposals for its acquisition. But it is also agreed that His Majesty's Government shall have the right at any time within six weeks after the delivery of the decision of the Tribunal to give notice to the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee that they are not prepared to accept the decision of the Tribunal, in which event the Government will not proceed with their proposals for the purchase of the property, except at some global figure determined by agreement between them and the Committee. If notice is not so given, the Committee will be entitled to assume that the Tribunal's decision is acceptable to His Majesty's Government and that they will introduce during the present Session of Parliament a Bill to acquire the property on the basis of the Tribunal's decision.

I am circulating in the OFFICIAL REPORT a Treasury Minute, dated 2nd March, 1937, appointing the tribunal and specifying their terms of reference.

Mr. Bellenger

Does that reply mean that, in view of the breakdown of negotiations, the Government's legislation for the unification of coalmining royalties will now be indefinitely postponed?

Mr. Chamberlain

When the hon. Member has an opportunity of reading what I said, I think he will see that that is not so.

Mr. T. Williams

May I ask whether, if the Government do accept the proposals of the tribunal, we are to understand that they will be beyond amendment in this House, and that the House will have to accept the proposals once the Government have accepted them?

Mr. Chamberlain

I do not think it would be true to say that it would he out of the power of the House to amend those proposals, but I suppose that in some respects it might be out of the power.

Mr. Williams

May I ask whether, before any step is taken by the Government, they will safeguard the interests of this House at all events, and that whatever decision they may reach as a Government, will not prejudice this House and the opportunity of this House to make amendments?

Mr. Chamberlain

It is always possible for the House to reject a Bill if it disagrees with it.

Sir Percy Harris

Would it be in order to move a reduced amount?

Mr. Chamberlain

I do not think that is a question which should be addressed to me, but to whoever is in charge of the Bill.

Mr. David Grenfell

Are we to assume that the Government have already committed themselves to regarding the findings of the tribunal as an award in this case?

Mr. Chamberlain

I explained what the arrangement was. The Mineral Owners' Joint Committee has agreed to accept the tribunal's award, but the Government have the right to say whether they will accept it or not.

Mr. H. G. Williams

Has the right hon. Gentleman's attention been drawn to the fact that this House has already, this Session, by a substantial majority, rejected a Bill embodying the principles of the announcement which he has just made?

Mr. Batey

Will the right hon. Gentleman put on the Order Paper a Resolution setting up the tribunal and give the House a chance of expressing its opinion as to whether it should be set up or not?

Mr. J. Griffiths

Are we to assume that if the State purchases these royalties, it will be a charge upon the industry; and if so, does not that vitally affect the position of the workmen in the industry; and is it proposed to consult the Mineworkers' Federation on this procedure?

Mr. Chamberlain

Perhaps the hon. Member will await the circulation in the OFFICIAL REPORT of the Treasury Minute and then he will see exactly what the proposals are.

Mr. Attlee

Before the Government decide on acceptance of the award of the tribunal, will this House be given an opportunity of expressing an opinion on the matter?

Mr. Chamberlain

I do not think I could give an assurance of that kind at the present moment.

Mr. Hardie

Are the royalties now proposed to be taken over, based on the coal in situ or the coal brought to the surface; and are the Government going to bring forward a Bill to say that we have to pay royalties on coal for all time?

Mr. Garro Jones

Is it the case that the right hon. Gentleman has just refused to give the House an assurance that before he commits the country to spending £100,000,000, he will consult the House?

Mr. Chamberlain

No, Sir. The country is not committed to anything by what I have said. If the Government decide to proceed with their proposals, of course, those proposals will have to be brought before the House to receive its assent.

Following is the Treasury Minute: The Chancellor of the Exchequer states to the Board that he has been in negotiation with the Mineral Owners' Joint Committee in regard to the amount of the compensation to be paid in the event of the statutory unification of coal royalties in Great Britain. In order to facilitate the determination of this amount, he proposes, with the agreement of the Committee that a Tribunal should be set up with the following terms of reference:
  1. 1. The Tribunal is to determine the amount which the fee simple of all unworked coal and all mines of coal in Great Britain and certain rights agreed to between the parties as being ancillary thereto might be expected to realise if sold in the open market by a willing seller.
  2. 2. In order to facilitate the reference it is agreed that the average net annual income derived from such property during the seven years 1928 to 1934, shall be taken at £4,430,000.
  3. 3. The Tribunal is to express its decision in the form of stating the appropriate number of years purchase to be applied to the aggregate figure of £4,430,000 but, in determining the appropriate number of years' purchase, shall take into account such variations, if any, in the amount of the net income as may reasonably be expected in the light of its source or otherwise.
    4. 983
  4. 4. The Tribunal shall not make any allowance on account of the acquisition being compulsory, nor shall they take into account any increased value based on the fact that the property will be in the hands of the State, or the fact that the distribution of the compensation will involve expense.
  5. 5. Cases are to be exchanged before Monday, i5th March. Replies to Cases are to be exchanged not later than seven days after the receipt of Cases. The Cases and Replies are then to be lodged with the Tribunal.
  6. 6. The Government and the Royalty Owners Committee may appear by Counsel before the Tribunal. Without prejudice to the right of the Tribunal to require further witnesses to be called, neither of them shall call more than three witnesses.
  7. 7. Subject to the above the Tribunal may regulate its own procedure.
 The Chancellor of the Exchequer further proposes that the Tribunal should consist of the following members:—
  • Lord Justice Greene (Chairman).
  • Mr. Justice Clauson.
  • Lord Plender, G.B.E.
  • My Lords agree.

Let the necessary directions be given accordingly.