CLAUSE 34.—(Means of escape in case of fire.) (Hansard, 16 June 1937)

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 30, line 21, after "employed," to insert: in the factory as a whole and, if the council think fit, in any specified part thereof. This Clause deals with the means of escape in case of fire, and this Amendment and several others which we propose to move are designed solely to strengthen the Clause. This particular Amendment is put forward to ensure that the local authority in its certificate can deal with parts of a factory which contain inflammable substances such as are not to be found in other parts of the factory.

§ Lieut.-Colonel Heneage
I think this may be the only opportunity for me to raise certain points which are contained in Amendments which are out of order. The gist of what I have to say is that district councils feel that they will not have the necessary powers which the Minister wishes them to have unless at the same time they have powers to deal with various appliances such as hydrants, mechanical extinguishers and so on. I hope that the Minister may, perhaps in another place, consider meeting certain objections which they have put forward.

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 30, line 42, after "Sub-section" to insert: shall only apply to any such factory as long as the means of escape provided therein are properly maintained and. This is a drafting Amendment to ensure that the existing obligation does not cease to operate between the time when the new Act comes into force and a certificate is granted.

§ Mr. Rhys Davies
I beg to move, in page 31, line 34, to leave out from "may," to the end of the Sub-Section, and to insert: when he is satisfied that no proceedings have been taken by the district council for remedying the dangerous condition, take the like action as the council might have taken and shall be entitled to recover from the district council summarily as a civil debt all such expenses as the inspector may incur in so doing and as are not recovered from any other person and are not expenses incurred in or about any unsuccessful legal proceedings. We are dealing here with means of escape in case of fire, and this Amendment proposes to insert a provision under which a factory inspector, if he finds that a local authority has failed in its duty, may undertake the task of remedying the default and charging the local authority with the cost. I do not want to make a general criticism of local authorities in the administration of the law relating to factories, but it is all too common to find factory owners as members of local authorities, and their influence is so paramount in some cases that the law is not carried out to the extent that the Home Office would desire. I trust that the right hon. Gentleman and the Lord Advocate will assist us to see that the law, once it has been passed by this House, shall be implemented as this House intends it should be. In the 456 case of means of escape in the event of fire, I think it is even more imperative to see that the law is enforced than in connection with questions of ventilation, sanitation or other matters.

§ The Lord Advocate
The Home Office are entirely in agreement with the hon. Member as to the object to be attained—that there must be no avoidable loss of time, either through the inaction of the district council or for any other reason, in putting factories into a safe condition from the point of view of fire risks. What difference there is between us is not one so much of object as of method. This Amendment proposes that the factory inspector shall take the place of the district council and himself act when he is satisfied that no proceedings have been taken by the council to remedy the dangerous conditions; in other words, the factory inspector shall supersede the local authority. To explain the alternative method which we suggest, it is necessary that I should look forward to an Amendment to which we come at line 30 on page 32.
I shall not anticipate the arguments in favour of that Amendment, but the proposal is, shortly, that in a case of real emergency the inspector shall have the right to apply direct to the courts and the courts shall have power to prohibit the use of the factory for a particular process until the necessary works have been executed. That seems to provide an even more rapid method of ensuring that the workers are not exposed to the risk of fire, because even if the methods suggested in the Amendment before us were adopted, there would be room for considerable delay through appeals and one thing and another. The House will see that we have had the same object in mind as the hon. Member, and, with all respect to him, I think we shall achieve it in a slightly better way. If he agrees, perhaps he will see his way not to press his Amendment.

§ Mr. Rhys Davies
After that explanation I am willing to withdraw the Amendment, only I want to say that although the Lord Advocate knows the law better than I do I think the wording of this Amendment is very much better grammar than his.

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 32, line 22, to leave out "one month," and to insert "twenty-one days."
The sole purpose of this Amendment is to shorten to the narrowest limit the time for an appeal. The point is a small one, and it was discussed in Committee.

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 32, line 30, at the end, to insert: (11) If it appears to an inspector that the conditions in regard to escape in case of fire in any factory to which this section applies are so dangerous that the factory or any part thereof ought not to be used, or ought not to be used for a particular process or work, until steps have been taken to remedy the danger, he may, in lieu of serving a notice on the district council under the foregoing provisions of this section, make a complaint to a court of summary jurisdiction, and the court may, on being satisfied of the matters aforesaid, by order prohibit the use of the factory or part thereof, or its use for the particular process or work, until such works have been executed as are in the opinion of the court necessary to remedy the danger. When any works have been executed in pursuance of such an order as aforesaid, the inspector shall give notice thereof to the district council, who shall amend any certificate in force under this section in respect of the factory, or issue a new certificate, as the case may require. This was the sub-section to which I referred a few moments ago which confers upon the factory inspector the power to apply to the court to have a factory put out of use until certain things have been done.

§ The Lord Advocate
I beg to move, in page 32, line 39, to leave out from the beginning, to "and," in line 41, and to insert: which is being constructed or converted for use as a factory at the date of the passing of this Act, or is constructed or so converted after that date. This is a drafting Amendment to meet the case of a factory which was actually in process of conversion at the date of the passing of the Act.