HC Deb 15 June 1937 vol 325 cc289-307

(1) For the purpose of meeting without over-time employment pressure of work recurring on particular days of the week, the total hours worked in a day by women in laundries may, on two week days other than Saturday in any week, extend to ten hours, and the period of employment on those days may extend to twelve hours and may begin at any time not earlier than six o'clock in the morning and end at any time not later than nine o'clock in the evening: Provided that nothing in this Sub-section shall affect the provisions of this Part of this Act with respect to the total hours worked in a week.

(2) The Secretary of State may, as regards factories of which the occupiers avail themselves of this extension, by regulations make such modifications in the provisions of this Part of the Act which require that the period of employment and intervals allowed for meals and rest shall be the same for all women and young persons, and that no woman or young person shall be employed during any such Interval, as appear to him to be necessary or expedient.—[Colonel Sandeman Allen.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

8.30 p.m.

Colonel Sandeman Allen

I beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

In 1907 a Factory and Workshops Act was passed dealing specially with the position of laundries, and permitting women to work in laundries for one extra hour on four days in the week other than Saturdays, provided that that period of time was deducted from the other days. Laundries are in a very particular and peculiar position. They collect, process and return their work in the same week. The work is collected on Mondays and Tuesdays, and mid-day on Monday is about the earliest time at which the first process can be started. The washing has to be sorted, washed, calendered or ironed, dried and packed, and each process takes from one to two and a-half hours per load of work. Short hours are worked on Monday, long hours on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, and shorter hours again on Friday and Saturday. It is, therefore, impossible until Tuesday or Wednesday for any laundry to know within 10 or 15 per cent. the amount of work with which it will have to deal. This sort of thing occurs every week throughout the year, and, therefore, Clause 70 of the Bill will not meet this particular case.

I have been dealing with the ordinary house laundry, with which, I suppose, every Member of the House is acquainted in some way or another; but there is another department of laundry work which also deserves consideration by the House. That is the work of ships' laundering, which is a very peculiar and difficult trade. Some of these steamers, which do a quick turn round when they come in, require a quick laundry, and I know that, unless provision is made which will enable ships' laundries to cope with the work that is given to them, certain ships, in the Canadian trade for example, if they cannot get their work done in my constituency, will have it done in Canada. I am not prepared to see my constituency sacrificed unnecessarily, and I put it to the House that this is a matter for special consideration in this country.

Mr. White

I beg to second the Motion.

8.34 p.m.

Mr. Jagger

I desire to oppose this Clause. I join issue with the Mover when he says that it is impossible to carry on a laundry business without this alteration in the Bill. The Clause proposes that the period of employment may begin at any time not earlier than six o'clock in the morning and end at any time not later than nine o'clock in the evening. It is seriously proposed that, in an industry where the overwhelming majority of the workers are young girls and women, a day which could extend over a maximum period of 13 hours shall be provided for in a Factory Act in 1937. I say that, no matter what the industrial difficulties of the employer might be, there is nothing that would justify the possibility of women and young persons being employed over a period of 13 hours in one day. When one realises the humid, steamy and heated atmosphere in which these persons work, the proposal becomes more monstrous still. The Mover suggested that it was impossible to do without this extension. That I challenge. The biggest laundry the country, catering exclusively for working-lass trade, never extends its hours beyond 8.30 in the morning to 5 o'clock in the evening. If there were a justification on this question of collecting and returning within the same week, it would apply most strongly among the working classes, who have greater difficulty in providing the necessary changes of raiment to last for two weeks. But when you have the fact that dozens of laundries, catering exclusively for the working class, are quite able to carry on their business without this extension, the case against the Clause becomes even more overwhelming. The Minister has found it necessary to make some exemptions but there is nothing that we have come to yet which would be nearly so abominable as this provision for a maximum on any working day, including mealtimes, of 15 hours, and I hope that no amount of pressure will induce him to accept the Clause.

8.37 p.m.

Mr. Mander

I very much hope that the Government are going to resist this Clause because, if they once begin giving way to insidious vested interests which may try to get outside the terms of the Bill, a great many cases will be put up. The hon. and gallant Gentleman used an argument which seemed to me to fit in with the needs and desires of a great many other industries. Of course, it is more convenient for everyone to go on doing what has been done in the past and not to make any change, but we have to look at it from the point of view of the women and young persons employed. If it is going to be said that it is a good thing for people to work long hours on one day and have a holiday on another, why not apply it to all industry? Let us have three half-holidays a week and 15 or 16 hours on other days. But, if you are going to start working on a principle of that kind, you could hardly choose a worse case than laundries, because there you have young persons, girls in many cases——

Mr. Magnay

Young persons are not mentioned here at all.

Mr. Mander

I was not using the term "young persons" in the technical and legal sense. I meant young persons over the age of 18. They have to work under conditions of great heat, which impose a great physical strain. I can see no reason at all why any concession should be made in this case, picked out from all the others that might be brought forward. The real difficulty is that customers in almost any trade are inclined to be a little unreasonable, and it is said that the customers of laundries are particularly unreasonable and will always insist on sending clothes in at the latest possible moment, wanting them back at the earliest date and grumbling because they do not get them. If hours of work were limited for all laundries throughout the country, they would all be in the same position and the customer could do nothing. He would have to alter his habits and fit in with the arrangement that the State laid down on behalf of the workers. In some cases, particularly large laundries, it is possible to even out the week's work. Where you have contract work, it can be done at the weekend and, certainly in the larger laundries, it is possible to arrange for a steady flow of work through the week.

I very much hope that the Government are not going to begin going down the hill of concession. They have been very good in many cases in bowing to the will of the House and accepting Amendments, but no will of the House has been manifested to-day. We have had this put forward from one part of the country alone. We have not heard the argument put from the point of view of the whole laundry industry. I hope the Government will require much more case put up, because it will make a good deal of difference to the time occupied on the Bill if they are going to start making concessions.

8.41 p.m.

Mr. Lloyd

I really think that we ought to dispose at once of the idea of these insidious vested interests. It must be a very insidious vested interest which could penetrate the hon. Member's domestic circle. The Home Office have made some inquiries into this matter. It is not really a question of representations put forward from a particular part of the country. We have, since the Committee stage, asked superintending inspectors all over the country to collect information as to the position with regard to laundries, and the information at our disposal indicates that there is a real case for this Clause. The hon. Member who spoke last said it would be for the customers to alter their habits. Does he realise who the customers are? They are the housewives of the United Kingdom.

Mr. Jagger

You made them do it during the War.

Mr. Lloyd

Even housewives may alter their habits in those special circumstances. It is a fact that the laundry does not come in very early on Mondays. On the other hand, the customers want it back at the week-end. They want their husbands to appear in their Sunday best each week-end regularly, even if they have not a great supply of washable articles.

Mr. Jagger

And it can be done.

Mr. Lloyd

It can be done if the laundry is delivered regularly by the week-end. Our information is that there is a certain unusual rhythm in the weekly work of laundries which is not to be found in any other industry. At the beginning of each week the articles are collected, then there is a process of sorting that has to be carried out, and many laundries do not begin actual work until late in the morning, in some cases midday on Monday. The work has to be completed for the week-end and you get a period of special stress towards the end of the week. The work is con- fined to women and it is not nearly so necessary to lay down rigid rules for their protection as it is in the case of young persons.

Mr. Lee

What would be the effect of the latter part of the Clause?

Mr. Lloyd

That is a different point. It has always been the practice to lay down that the hours of employment and for meal intervals for women and young persons shall be the same. It is entirely for the purpose of facilitating the discovery of evasions of the law by factory inspectors. If an alteration is to be made with regard to women and not to young persons, you must relax that general provision which is normally made that the periods for meals and so on shall be the same. I can assure the hon. Member that there is nothing more in it than that.

Mr. Lee

Is it clear that they get 12 hours for women, but they do not get it for young persons?

Mr. Lloyd

Absolutely. It is not a 12-hour period of employment, but a 10-hour maximum period of work on these particular days, but that does not permit the 48-hour week to be in any way lengthened. If there are these extended hours for the particular days, it means that there must be a corresponding shortening on the other days. If there were not that overriding provision that the maximum hours for the week must not be lessened, I would not be taking the view that there is a strong case for this Clause at the present time. It is merely that the rhythm of work in the laundry industry makes it better to work longer hours on some days in the week and shorter hours on other days without any prejudice to the working week itself. I will give some examples that we have had. I have in front of me particulars of the Co-operative laundries in a large number of districts. I have them more or less for the whole of the country. I will take the Scottish Wholesale Co-operative Society, about which we heard regarding bakeries earlier to-day. They work on Monday from 8 to 5.3o; Tuesday, 8 to 5.3o; Wednesday, 8 to 5.30; Thursday, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m.; and Friday, 8 to 6. At Stockton-on-Tees the Co-operative Laundry does not start until 10 a.m. on Monday, and it goes on until 6 p.m., and on Thursdays it starts at 8 in the morning and goes on until 8 in the evening.

Mr. Mander

Are they supporting the new Clause?

Mr. Lloyd

I think the hon. Member should apply to the representatives of the Co-operative Society. There is one laundry— the Midland Co-operative Laundry—where they do not start until 2 p.m. on Monday and go on until 7 P.m.

Mr. Riley

Do any of them go on until 9 o'clock?

Mr. Lloyd

I do not think that I have anything later than 8 in these particular figures, but the hon. Member will appreciate that if a laundry worked until 9 in the evening, it wouild not be able to start before 9 o'clock in the morning.

Mr. Jagger

The hon. Gentleman does not quote the Co-operative Laundries Federation, which is larger than all the others.

Mr. Lloyd

The Scottish Wholesale Cooperative Society is a large society.

Mr. Jagger

It is a big society, but has a very small laundry. The biggest laundry in England is at Manchester.

Mr. Lloyd

But these are substantial co-operative societies. The point that I wish to make to the House is that these figures from the Factory Department of the Home Office definitely give the information that there is an unusual rhythm in the work of the laundries during the week. Bearing in mind that this is a relaxation for women only with regard to the daily period of employment, and does not extend to the weekly limit, I suggest to the House that we ought to vote for this new Clause.

8.49 p.m.

Mr. Rhys Davies

The hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for West Birkenhead (Colonel Sandeman Allen) moved many Amendments like this one in the Committee upstairs, but happily for us he did not impress the Government as much in Committee as he seems to have done this evening. He was more eloquent this evening than I have heard him on any previous occasion, and I should imagine that his eloquence was greater perhaps because he knew that he was splitting the Liberal party at the same time.

Colonel Sandeman Allen

I did not.

Mr. Davies

And having split the Liberal party he has got the Government to support his new Clause. Those who are conversant with the laundry business—I believe that my hon. Friend the Member for the Clayton Division of Manchester (Mr. Jagger) is very closely connected with this work and knows a great deal about it, as his speech shows—know that, if the Clause were intended to apply for rush purposes in connection with holidays, then our objection to it would not be as strong as it must be in making it universal in respect of every week in the year. I think that that probably is the fundamental difference between us and the supporters of the new Clause, except that we are very disturbed when any section of industry comes forward to Parliament and wants certain exemptions and exceptions from the general rule of law. When we were in Committee the aerated water manufacturers wanted exemption, and there is another exemption in respect of dairies. They have not enough bottles to go round. That is what we are told.

Let me remind the Secretary of State for the Home Department—and he knows it as well as I do—that if he gives way to-night to the hon. and gallant Gentleman, there will be two or three Private Members' Bills to upset this law next October, November or December when we meet, just as is being done now, in respect of shops legislation, ice cream and newsagents, because they want their special people exempted from the common round of human beings. We shall have no hesitation on principle in dividing the House against the hon. and gallant Gentleman, not only because of what is contained in this Clause, but because whenever he moved an Amendment in Committee upstairs, it was a most reactionary proposal.

8.52 p.m.

Mr. Dingle Foot

I want particularly to raise one point, which I do not think has yet been raised by any other speaker, and that is the form in which this Clause is drafted. I would invite the attention of the House to the wording of Subsection (2) of the Clause. Leaving out some of the words and simply reading the operative part of the Clause, it is as follows: The Secretary of State may … by regulations make such modifications in the provisions of this Part of the Act … as appear to him to be necessary or expedient. That is very widely drawn, and, as I have endeavoured to point out to the House on one or two occasions before, a form of words like this, giving the Secretary of State the power to make any modifications he thinks fit in the law of the land, is open to very serious objections. I ask the Lord Advocate to give his attention to this particular point. This is our old friend known as the Henry VIII Clause. As the Lord Advocate knows, this question was very closely considered by the Committee on Ministers' Powers, and they said that a Clause of this kind should be embodied in legislation only where there were special reasons for so doing. Special reasons do not exist here obviously, because it is quite unnecessary, for the purposes which the Mover has in mind, that the Clause should be drafted so widely.

All that the sponsors of the Clause are anxious to bring about is a certain readjustment of hours. I am not now discussing whether that is desirable or undesirable, but it would have been perfectly easy to provide that the hours to be worked in a certain week should be readjusted, and that more should be worked at the week-end and fewer during the middle of the week, and to have given the Secretary of State power to make that readjustment in the case of any particular factories or industries or series of industries. In order to do that, it is entirely unnecessary to give the Secretary of State the powers that are given by this particular Clause to make any regulations which may appear to him to be necessary or expedient. The point I want to make is simply that although this particular Subsection refers to the period of employment with intervals allowed for meals, it is so worded that the Secretary of State can make any modifications he pleases in the particular part of the Act. Even if the Government accept the Clause, I hope that before the Bill reaches another place they will closely consider the matter and see whether it is not possible to have a less objectionable form of words.

8.55 p.m.

Miss Wilkinson

I regret that I was not in the House during the earlier part of the Debate on this Clause. The reason for my absence is a warning to the Government, because I have been addressing a large body of women in Caxton Hall, some of whom are ardent supporters of the present Government, and I have been making their flesh creep by telling them of the terrible things there are in this Bill, one of which relates to laundry workers and the other to cheese makers. I want the right hon. Gentleman to realise that he is dealing not only with a small number of people now present in the House, but with very large numbers of informed and organised women who are watching the Clauses of this Bill very carefully and who, while they welcome certain improvements in the Bill, are very much disturbed by such Clauses as this. When I saw that the hon. and gallant Member had moved this Clause. I thought that there was one comfort in that the Government would not accept it, but when I come into the House I find that they have done so.

As one who has had considerable experience in organising women, I maintain that those who work, even in the most modem laundries, would not desire such an extension of hours as is proposed in this Clause. Even in the modern laundries, when the worker comes to the end of long periods of employment she finds that the conditions become wearisome. We have to remember that there are many laundries that are not modern. Laundries whose proprietors desire to organise on more modern lines are handicapped by many of the small laundry owners who, somehow, always seem to get the ears of Conservative Governments, and drag down the standard of employment for the whole trade. My hon. Friend the Member for Clayton (Mr. Jagger) has pointed out what those of us who worked in connection with this problem during the War period knew, that this system when it had to be operated for the convenience of the Government worked perfectly well. It was decided then, through the Launderers' Federation, to organise the trade so that there were not these excessively long periods of work.

It is much to be regretted that the Government should accept a Clause which perpetuates an undesirable state of things, and I am sure that if they consulted mem- bers of the executive committee of the Launderers' Federation they would find that the best launderers are not in favour of going back to the old arrangements. They want a new standard to be observed in the sense in which it has been observed by the better launderers for 15 or 20 years. It would be a retrograde step if the splendid work done by the leading and best launderers were to be interfered with by wretched little laundries. It is a mistake to assume that laundries can be carried on as in the old days of the wash-tub, the mangle and the hand scrubber. It is a trade which should be in the hands of the big modern steam or electric laundries, which are more hygienic and more sanitary from every point of view. If this Clause goes through it will put a premium not necessarily on the small man, because some of the small laundries are quite good, but on the inefficiency of those laundries which want to make up for the lack of modern machinery by sweating women labour. It is on behalf of the women engaged in this trade who have tried to get some kind of organisation and who, I am glad to say, have found a very enlightened attitude on the part of the organised employers, that I protest against this Clause. I hope that the Government will think twice before they accept such a Clause. Let them keep up the standard.

9.1 p.m.

The Lord Advocate (Mr. T. M. Cooper)

I should like to deal with the legal point put by the hon. Member for Dundee (Mr. Foot) as to the extent of the powers conferred upon the Minister by Sub-section (2) of the Clause. I think his fears are groundless, because special care has been taken in drafting the whole of the Bill to observe as far as possible the recommendation of the Committee on Ministers' Powers, to which the hon. Member referred. The powers conferred on the Secretary of State are exercisable by "regulation", and "regulation" is defined and subjected to a variety of conditions outlined in Clause 127, the effect of which is to introduce the Rules Publication Act, 1893, which means that the regulations are to be published in draft, when objections can be made. Further, that Clause subjects the regulations to the necessity of being laid before both Houses of Parliament, and of being considered there. Those conditions are in line and in close harmony with the recommendations of the Committee on Ministers' Powers. Moreover, the hon. Member will observe in regard to the difficulty he raises, that the safeguards are amply sufficient to secure that any excessive use of these powers would be impossible. The drafting of this Clause and other Clauses in the Bill will continue to be under close examination during the passage of the Measure through this House and another place. In the meantime, I suggest that the fears of the hon. Member are groundless.

Mr. Foot

Then why is it necessary to draw this Clause so widely for its purposes? Why is it necessary in order to give the Secretary of State the power to make some readjustments of hours to give him what amounts to the power by regulation to make any modifications which he may think expedient?

Mr. Jagger

Am I to gather from the Lord Advocate's speech that he took special care to draft the Clause which has been moved by the hon. and gallant

Member for Birkenhead, West (Colonel Sandeman Allen)? Is that so?

The Lord Advocate

The hon. Member is under a complete misapprehension. I can assure him, and the hon. Member for Birkenhead, West, will also assure him, that I had no part or lot in drafting the Clause. The Clause has been drafted in conformity with the scheme of the Bill, which provides throughout for the use of regulations, or special regulations, or orders. In regard to the last point raised by the hon. Member for Dundee, I am not concerned either to bless or condemn the detailed draftsmanship of the Clause, but I am prepared to say that the draftsmanship will be closely examined. On the major proposition that the Secretary of State has unlimited power to do what he likes under the Clause, I would only point out that there are ample safeguards in other provisions of the Bill.

Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."

The House divided: Ayes, 200; Noes, 117.

Division No. 216.] AYES. [9.6 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Cruddas, Col. B. Holmes, J. S.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Culverwell, C. T. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Davies, C. (Montgomery) Hopkinson, A.
Allen, Col. J. Sandeman (B'knhead) Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Horsbrugh, Florence
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Denman, Hon. R. D. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)
Aske, Sir R. W. Dorman-Smith, Major Sir R. H. Hudson, R. S. (Southport)
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Drewe, C. Hunter, T.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Dugdale, Captain T. L. Joel, D. J. B.
Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M. Duncan, J. A. L. Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)
Barrie, Sir C. C. Dunglass, Lord Jones, L. (Swansea W.)
Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Eastwood, J. F. Keeling, E. H.
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Eckersley, P. T. Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Eden, Rt. Hon. A. Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Beit, Sir A. L. Edmondson, Major Sir J. Latham, Sir P.
Bernays, R. H. Ellis, Sir G. Leckie, J. A.
Birchall, Sir J. D. Elliston, Capt. G. S. Lees-Jones, J.
Blaker, Sir R. Emery, J. F. Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Boulton, W. W. Erskine-Hill, A. G Lewis, O.
Boyce, H. Leslie Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Liddall, W. S.
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Everard, W. L. Little, Sir E. Graham
Brass, Sir W. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Fyfe, D. P. M. Lloyd, G. W.
Brawn, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Ganzoni, Sir J. Loftus, P. C.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley) Lovat-Fraser, J. A.
Bull, B. B. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Campbell, Sir E. T. Gledhill, G. MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G.
Cartland, J. R. H. Gluckstein, L. H. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)
Carver, Major W. H. Grant-Ferris, R. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)
Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Magnay, T.
Gary, R. A. Gridley, Sir A. B. Maitland, A.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Grimston, R. V. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Markham, S. F.
Channon, H. Guy, J. C. M. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.
Chorlton, A. E. L. Hannah, I. C. Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham)
Christie, J. A. Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle) Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan Moreing, A. C.
Crooke, J. S. Hepworth, J. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Higgs, W. F. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester)
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Munro, P.
Cross, R. H. Holdsworth, H. Nall, Sir J.
Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Orr-Ewing, I. L. Salmon, Sir I. Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Palmer, G. E. H. Salt, E. W. Turton, R. H.
Peake, O. Samuel, M. R. A. Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Peat, C. U. Sanderson, Sir F. B. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Perkins, W. R. D. Sandys, E. D. Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Pickthorn, K. W. M. Selley, H. R. Warrender, Sir V.
Pilkington, R. Shakespeare, G. H. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar) Wayland, Sir W. A.
Purbrick, R. Shepperson, Sir E. W. Wells, S. R.
Radford, E. A. Simmonds, O. E. White, H. Graham
Raikes, H. V. A. M. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D. Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Ramsbotham, H. Smith, L. W. (Hallam) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Ramsden, Sir E. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Rankin, Sir R. Spens, W. P. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Rayner, Major R. H. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'ld) Wise, A. R.
Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.) Womersley, Sir W. J.
Reid, W. Allan (Derby) Strauss, H. G. (Norwich) Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) Strickland, Captain W. F. Wragg, H.
Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry) Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Tasker, Sir R. I.
Rowlands, G. Tate, Mavis C. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Russell, Sir Alexander Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward
and Mr. Furness.
Adams, D. (Consett) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Paling, W.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) Parkinson, J. A.
Adamson, W. M. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Price, M. P.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Pritt, D. N.
Banfield, J. W. Hills, A. (Pontefract) Quibell, D. J. K.
Barnes, A. J. Hollins, A. Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Batey, J. Hopkin, D. Ridley, G.
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. Jagger, J. Riley, B.
Bromfield, W. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Ritson, J.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Rothschild, J. A. de
Buchanan, G. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Rowson, G.
Burke, W. A. Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) Seely, Sir H. M.
Cape, T. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Sexton, T. M.
Chater, D. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Shinwell, E.
Cluse, W. S. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Short, A.
Cocks, F. S. Lathan, G. Silverman, S. S.
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Lawson, J. J. Simpson, F. B.
Daggar, G. Leach, W. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Dalton, H. Lee, F. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Leonard, W. Stephen, C.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leslie, J. R. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Logan, D. G. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Day, H. Lunn, W. Thorne, W.
Dobbie, W. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Thurtle, E.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) McEntee, V. La T. Tinker, J. J.
Ede, J. C. McGhee, H. G. Viant, S. P.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) MacLaren, A. Walker, J.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Mander, G. le M. Watkins, F. C.
Foot, D. M. Marshall, F. Watson, W. McL.
Gallacher, W Mathers, G. Westwood, J.
Gardner, B. W. Maxton, J. Wilkinson, Ellen
Garro Jones, G. M Messer, F. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Milner, Major J. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Montague, F. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Nathan, Colonel H. L. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Naylor, T. E. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Noel-Baker, P. J.
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Oliver, G. H. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Groves, T. E. Owen, Major G. Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Charleton.

Motion made, and Question put, "That the Clause be added to the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 204; Noes, 121.

Division No. 217.] AYES. [9.15 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Birchall, Sir J. D.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M. Blaker, Sir R.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Barrie, Sir C. C. Boulton, W. W.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Boyce, H. Leslie
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Braithwaite, Major A. N.
Aske, Sir R. W. Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Brass, Sir W.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Beit, Sir A. L. Briscoe, Capt. R. G.
Balfour, G. (Hampstead) Bernays, R. H. Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S. Rayner, Major R. H.
Bull, B. B. Holdsworth, H. Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Campbell, Sir E. T. Holmes, J. S. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Cartland, J. R. H. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Carver, Major W. H. Hopkinson, A. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Cary, R. A. Horsbrugh, Florence Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Hudson, R. S. (Southport) Rowlands, G.
Channon, H. Hunter, T. Russell, Sir Alexander
Chorlton, A. E. L. Joel, D. J. B. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Christie, J. A. Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Salmon, Sir I.
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Keeling, E. H. Salt, E. W.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) Samuel, M. R. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Lamb, Sir J. Q. Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Crooke, J. S. Latham, Sir P. Sandys, E. D.
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Leckie, J. A. Selley, H. R.
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Lees-Jones, J. Shakespeare, G. H.
Cross, R. H. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Cruddas, Col. B. Lewis, O. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Culverwell, C. T. Liddall, W. S. Simmonds, O. E.
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Little, Sir E. Graham Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Denman, Hon. R. D. Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.
Dorman-Smith, Major Sir R. H. Lloyd, G. W. Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Drewe, C. Loftus, P. C. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Dugdale, Captain T. L. Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Spens, W. P.
Duggan, H. J. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Duncan, J. A. L. MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Dunglass, Lord McCorquodale, M. S. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Eastwood, J. F. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross) Strickland, Captain W. F.
Eckersley, P. T. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Eden, Rt. Hon. A. Magnay, T. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Maitland, A. Tasker, Sir R. I.
Ellis, Sir G. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Tate, Mavis C.
Elliston, Capt. G. S. Markham, S. F. Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Emery, J. F. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham) Train, Sir J.
Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Everard, W. L. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L.
Fremantle, Sir F. E. Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick) Turton, R. H.
Fyfe, D. P. M. Moore, Lieut.-Col. Sir T. C. R. Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Ganzoni, Sir J. Moreing, A. C. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley) Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Warrender, Sir V.
Gledhill, G. Munro, P. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Gluckstein, L. H. Nall, Sir J. Wayland, Sir W. A
Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) Nicolson, Hon. H. G. Wells, S. R.
Grant-Ferris, R. O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh White, H. Graham
Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham)
Gridley, Sir A. B. Palmer, G. E. H. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Grimston, R. V. Peake, O. Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Peat, C. U. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Guy, J. C. M. Perkins, W. R. D. Wise, A. R.
Hannah, I. C. Pickthorn, K. W. M. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle) Pilkington, R. Wood, Hon. C. I. C.
Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Wragg, H.
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Purbrick, R. Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Radford, E. A. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan Ramsbotham, H.
Hepworth, J. Ramsden, Sir E. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.
Higgs, W. F. Rankin, Sir R. Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward
and Mr. Furness.
Adams, D. (Consett) Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Green, W. H. (Deptford)
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Daggar, G. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A.
Adamson, W. M. Dalton, H. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth)
Ammon, C. G. Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Groves, T. E.
Attlee Rt. Hon. C. R. Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare)
Banfield, J. W. Davison, Sir W. H. Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.)
Barnes, A. J. Day, H. Henderson, A. (Kingswinford)
Batey, J. Dobbie, W. Henderson, J. (Ardwick)
Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Henderson, T. (Tradeston)
Bromfield, W. Ede, J. C. Hollins, A.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Hopkin, D.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Jagger, J.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Foot, D. M. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool)
Buchanan, G. Frankel, D. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath)
Burke, W. A. Gallacher, W. Jones, A. C. (Shipley)
Cape, T. Gardner, B. W. Jones, Sir G. W. H. (S'k N'w'gt'n)
Chater, D. Garro Jones, G. M. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly)
Cluse, W. S. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Kelly, W. T.
Cocks, F. S. Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T.
Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Oliver, G. H. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Lathan, G. Owen, Major G. Stephen, C.
Lawson, J. J. Paling, W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Leach, W. Parkinson, J. A. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Lea, F. Pethick-Lawrence, Rt. Hon. F. W. Thorne, W.
Leonard, W. Price, M. P. Thurtle, E.
Leslie, J. R. Pritt, D. N. Tinker, J. J.
Logan, D. G. Quibell, D. J. K. Viant, S. P.
Lunn, W. Richards, R. (Wrexham) Walkden, A. G.
McEntee, V. La T. Ridley, G. Walker, J.
McGhee, H. G. Riley, B. Watkins, F. C.
MacLaren, A. Ritson, J. Watson, W. McL.
Mander, G. le M. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) Westwood, J.
Marshall, F. Rothschild, J. A. de Wilkinson, Ellen
Mathers, G. Rowson, G. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Maxton, J. Seely, Sir H. M. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Messer, F. Sexton, T. M. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Milner, Major J. Shinwell, E. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Montague, F. Short, A. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Nathan, Colonel H. L. Silverman, S. S.
Naylor, T. E. Simpson, F. B. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.
Noel-Baker, P. J. Smith, E. (Stoke) Mr. Charleton and Mr. Whiteley.