RURAL HOUSING, SCOTLAND. (Hansard, 10 June 1937)

§ Mr. Henderson Stewart
I want to draw attention to the report of the Scottish Housing Advisory Committee on Rural Housing. I raise the matter because the answer that was given to me a few days ago seemed to show that the Secretary of State did not appreciate sufficiently the seriousness of the report nor the gravity of the situation in our country which it revealed. It is a very remarkable document. It was prepared by a committee appointed by this Government and cannot, therefore, be regarded as an unduly Socialistic or Labour body. It was a thoroughly representative committee; and its findings were unanimous. The report of the sub-committee was accepted in toto by the general committee and is 2098 drafted in such a form as to be perfectly clear to all of us. The right hon. Member for West Stirling (Mr. Johnston) described it as an alarming document. I think it is entitled to the adjective "sensational," because it contains perhaps the most serious indictment of housing conditions that I have ever read. I would invite the House to consider a few of the findings of the report as to facts. I do not propose to mention any of the recommendations because of the lateness of the hour. I pick out a summary of their findings. With the exception of the subsidy provided by the Housing (Rural Authorities) Act, 1931, the subsidies for the erection of houses for general needs which were available from 1919 to 1933 were inadequately used by county councils of rural counties and, in the absence of any direct subsidy for the purpose, county councils of rural counties are unable at present to erect houses for the general needs of rural workers. With few exceptions, county councils are not carrying out adequately their duty of inspecting the working-class houses in their districts. The standard applied by most county councils in determining whether a house is defective is too low. They give many examples. County councils of rural counties are not making sufficient use of their power to demolish or close unfit houses. The number of houses which are being built to replace unfit houses in rural counties is inadequate, and the county councils of these counties have grossly under-estimated the numbers of houses required for this purpose. The method of approaching owners informally to get them to carry out repairs of improvements sometimes leads to inexcusable delays and evasion. County councils are not carrying out their duties to secure the repair or improvement of defective houses. No real attack is being made on the problem of overcrowding in rural areas. They draw attention to the great and urgent need of big regional water and drainage schemes. They say: In the administration of the Housing (Rural Workers) Acts there has been a grave waste of public money. Speaking of housing in villages they say: In most rural counties little or nothing is being done to replace unfit houses or to put an end to overcrowding in villages and hamlets. There is a serious shortage of houses in rural areas for the general needs of the rural population. As regards farm servants they say: A very large number of farm servants' houses are defective and in general no section 2099 of the population is compelled to live in such consistently bad housing conditions as farm servants. The housing of unmarried farm workers is even more unsatisfactory than that of married workers. I will not read more. There is a passage in the report relating to investigations made into a number of parishes. The result of that investigation, the findings of which the Committee entirely accept, shows that 75 per cent. of the houses visited there, and which they regard as typical throughout Scotland, are unfit for human habitation. These are most serious facts and reveal a state of affairs which must shock the most complacent person. I raise the matter now in order to ask this straight question of my right hon. Friend. What is to be done with this sensational report? It cannot be allowed to lie on the desks of the Scottish Office, to be leisurely passed from Department to Department until at some future date legislation of some kind emerges. It demands immediate, urgent and exceptional examination, and inasmuch as it makes very serious charges against county councils it seems to justify calling a special conference of representatives of county councils without any delay—

Mr. Stewart
The Secretary of State has already distinguished himself, has in fact endeared himself in the short time he has been at the Scottish Office to the Scottish people, by the deep interest and sympathy he has taken in housing conditions. He has demanded of local authorities a new effort, and I am going to appeal to his sympathy and understanding to obtain from him an undertaking that very urgent attention will be paid to this very grave document.

§ Mr. Gallacher
I should like to reinforce the remarks of the hon. Member about this report, and to take this opportunity once again of insisting that if the question of the decline of population in country districts is to be dealt with the one great outstanding question is that of 2100 housing for the rural population. Any one who represents a rural area in Scotland—it matters not in what district it is—can see conditions of housing and sanitation which would not be tolerated in any urban district. If the Minister wants to do the biggest job that any man can do for Scotland he will immediately accept the recommendations which have been made and call a conference of county councils in Scotland, discuss measures that have to be taken and proceed as speedily as possible with a Measure which will embody the important features of the report and introduce into Scotland a housing scheme for rural areas which will put an end for ever to the terrible conditions which exist.

§ Mr. Elliot
I am sure we are grateful to the hon. Member for taking the earliest opportunity of raising what he rightly calls the very important report on rural housing in Scotland. I welcome the report. It raises matters of great interest and is couched in vigorous language. It would not be in order for me to discuss several of its recomendations because they involve legislation, but may I say that I have given the report close consideration ever since it came into my hands? I have, however, had to consider it in conjunction with the general housing position. We have had Debates on the subject of housing in Scotland before, notably on the Motion for the Adjournment for the Christmas Recess last year, when the hon. Member for Gorbals (Mr. Buchanan) and other hon. Members raised the question of urban housing. There is only one point on which I would make any criticism of the findings of this committee, and it is when it says that there is no class of persons which is compelled to live in such consistently bad conditions as the Scottish farm workers. I see on the benches opposite the Junior Member for Dundee (Mr. Foot). I myself sit for a constituency which contains the dockside quarters of Glasgow. In those two constituencies alone, not to mention the constituency of the hon. Member for Coatbridge (Mr. Barr), we could find examples of housing conditions which I venture to say are altogether worse even than the worst of the conditions which have been brought out in connection with rural housing.

§ Mr. Gallacher
What about water and sanitation?

§ Mr. Elliot
I assure the hon. Member for West Fife (Mr. Gallacher) that when there are human beings piled up in flats one upon the other, there are conditions of sanitation which no rural area can possibly equal. I do not need to refer to the findings of the inquiries into slum clearance schemes, or the houses which have not yet been cleared under such schemes. The Under-Secretary of State himself, in going round some houses in Glasgow, came upon conditions which are so frequently found of choked-up water closets, one, two or three storeys up, with the sewage running down the stairs into the houses below, polluting everything there. No single-storey house could compete in horror with the conditions which one finds in the piled-up castles of misery whch the slum areas of our great cities in Scotland represent. They arc unfit for human habitation. I do not deny the grave conditions of rural housing. I do not deny that there is a lack of water, a lack of food storage places, a lack of almost everything in many of the rural cottages; but there is one thing which is not the same as in the towns, and it is that in the country there is God's sunshine and fresh air. There are areas in the towns where those great fundamental goods are denied to many people.

§ Mr. Mathers
They have to go outside to get the fresh air and sunlight. It does not get in.

§ Mr. Elliot
If they can get fresh air and sunlight by opening the door and steping out, they are in places which are very different from some of the streets in my constituency, in Dundee or in Coatbridge. There are areas where they have to walk a mile or further before they can get anything like the fresh air which the people get in a rural area by opening the door and stepping outside. My hon. Friend the Member for East Fife (Mr. H. Stewart) said that the conditions of rural housing call for most urgent consideration and action; but these conditions must be considered in conjunction with the general housing situation in Scotland, which is one of the scandals of the twentieth century. I would put it as high as that. When one-third of the population of Scotland is living without separate water closets, the situation is one which no Secretary of State and no Member of this House can observe with any sort of complacency or equanimity
2102 Very much depends, and must depend, upon the amount of effort which the building industry can put forth to remedy these conditions. I made it my first task on entering this office to get into touch with the building industry, with which I am now in negotiation—I hope the negotiations will reach a successful issue—about the rate at which they think the building industry, employers and employés can remove this scandal from Scotland. One cannot concentrate either on the country or on the town alone; one must advance upon both together. The rural slum is as great a disgrace as the urban slum, but not greater; and if we were to concentrate all our efforts upon it we should concentrate our efforts wrongly. We must, as I say, advance upon both. I am not taking a light view of this matter, nor are my officers. The Chief Medical Officer of the Department of Health is a man known for one of the most valuable reports on rural housing ever compiled. It was compiled for the English county of which he was then chief medical officer, and his interest in and initiative with regard to rural housing are well known, and certainly weighed with me very much in making the appointment which I did make. I hope for great assistance from his initiative and expert knowledge in dealing with this problem.
I do not, however, intend to leave the matter wholly to my officers. Some of the recommendations in the report call for administrative action and as far as they are concerned, I am in general agreement with the report. I feel sure that the county councils will also desire to make the improvements in administration which the Committee recommend. With that object, I propose at an early date to communicate with the county councils on the subject of the report and to ask them to take administrative action under the Housing (Scotland) and Housing (Rural Workers) Acts, in advance of any legislation which may be introduced to carry out the Committee's recommendations.
It is gratifying to find so large a measure of agreement that most valuable work has been done under the Housing (Rural Workers) Acts, and it is interesting that, in spite of reservations, the Committee as a whole have come down on the side of the further extension of those Acts. It is true that they also propose a new subsidy to the county councils for 2103 the erection of new houses, but that involves legislative proposals which it would not be in order to discuss now. Furthermore, I do not think it would be possible from mere considerations of time, to pass yet another Housing Bill this Session. I see the Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury on my right, and I am reinforced by the ominous movements of his head. But, as I say, administration is our sphere and in administration, as regards getting in touch with the county councils, calling their attention to the action which it is for them to take and helping them, if possible, in any action which they may take, I shall certainly not be lacking. I am in active negotiation with the building industry. Two of the chief officers of the Building Trade Union, Mr. Coppock and Mr. Hicks, are at present in Geneva, but they are to visit Scotland immediately upon their return and I hope that we shall be able to get a final decision upon the amount of labour which can be applied to this urgent problem. As I say it is a decision which will materially affect the rate at which we can deal with this scandal.
The Housing (Rural Workers) Acts do not expire until 24th June, 1938, and up to that date local authorities may receive applications for assistance. There is no sign of any falling off in the amount of work done under the Acts, and even though legislation extending the Acts will not be passed until the spring of 1938, there is no reason why there should he any decline in the amount of work which is being done. I want to keep the swing on the job. I want to be sure that we continue to renovate the rural cottages at a rate as great as and greater than the rate at which we have been proceeding so far. The number of dwellings in respect of which county and town councils in Scotland have received applications for assistance is roughly 30,000 and applications made to county councils cover about 27,000 of these. In the same time the 2104 number of applications made to English local authorities, with 10 times our population, was about 20,000–30,000 in Scotland and 20,000 for the whole of England. Certainly the interest in rural housing in Scotland is keen, and as for the accomplishment, the number of dwellings on which work has been completed is 23,000 for the whole of Scotland, as compared with 11,800 for England. So that twice the number of houses have been renewed and repaired in Scotland under the Rural Workers (Housing) Acts as for the whole of England, which is a long way above 11/80ths or any other proportion. which has ever been suggested. The importance of that lies in this, that even though the report says that some half of these houses which have been done up and renewed under the Acts have not been brought up to a fully satisfactory standard, yet that also means that half of them have been brought up to a fully satisfactory standard, and the other half have certainly been greatly improved, and even the half which have been brought up to a fully satisfactory standard are more than the numbers which have been done up and renewed in the whole of England.
I do not deny that the housing conditions in rural Scotland are very defective and will need the utmost good will and work, from my officers, from local authorities' officials, from Ministers of the Crown, and from Members on all sides of the House, both in the House and when they go to their constituencies. I trust I may rely upon their efforts from a non-party point of view in this non-party problem, and I, for my part. will promise that I will do my best in seconding any efforts that are put forward.