§ Entertainments Duty shall cease to be charged on payments for admission to entertainments held on or after the first day of 436 January, ninteeen hundred and thirty-eight, which are entertainments specified in Subsection (3) of Section one of the Finance Act, 1935, that is to say, entertainments where all the performers whose words or actions constitute the entertainment are actually present 437 and performing and the entertainment consists solely of one or more of the following items, namely, a stage play, a ballet (whether a stage play or a music hall or other variety entertainment), a circus or a travelling show. —[Mr. Denville.]
§ Brought up, and read the First time.
§ 7.52 p.m.
§ Mr. DenvilleI beg to move, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
It is with a great deal of satisfaction that I bring before the Committee suggested legislation which has for its purpose the relief of the living stage from any form of taxation. It will be within the memory of hon. Members that the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, now the Prime Minister, a year ago expressed his deep concern with the position of the living stage, and gave certain concessions, which have had a wonderful effect on the fortunes of the living theatre. The number of those who have already gone off the dole and public assistance, who have got work through the increased number of openings in theatres and halls, fully warrants my bringing this matter again before the Committee and suggesting to the new Chancellor of the Exchequer that he should be just as sympathetic as his predecessor and consider this very important point. I have not the slightest doubt that we shall get the same sympathy from the right hon. Gentleman. According to the statistics taken out by the Abolitionist League we find that in the actual tax paid during the last nine months there is a tremendous drop, and judging by the number of people who have gone off the dole and off public assistance it would appear that if the tax was removed entirely the Government would make a profit.
May I say to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the theatrical profession as a whole would hesitate to put this proposal before the Committee if the country was in a state of danger? No one has shown more patriotism than those who grace the boards of this country, but this is not a question of patriotism but of common sense. What I mean is that if the figures of the Treasury itself show that they would save money if something like 100 theatres were reopened it is a most desirable thing to do. We would not have brought this matter forward this year but for a specific reason. A memorial was presented to the late Chancellor of the Exchequer signed by 300 Members of this House. 438 and I ask the present Chancellor of the Exchequer to accept my word that it was not a canvassed memorial. Hon. Members just before the Budget asked me whether I was going to do anything in the matter this year. "If so," they said, "will you put my name to it? "There are 300 Members of this House who are supporting the total abolition of a tax on the living stage, and I think they are entitled to a certain amount of consideration. Surely they represent the feeling of this House and of the country.
I suggest that there is evidence to show that employment will be largely increased and much more money saved to the State in the way of employment than is being obtained by this tax. The Government might do what is done in some other countries where they give exemptions to companies where the maximum number of living performers appear in the entertainment. I would not give exemption to any theatre which included a panatrope, but only to theatres which employ an orchestra. It is possible for any theatre to escape Entertainments Duty by using methods which in some cases are not questionable, but which in other cases are questionable. There is the theatre, which is stated not to be run for profit, but as an educational force. A large number of theatres have been exempted from this taxation on this excuse, some of them genuine, but in others one can understand what takes place. Far be it from me to say that I should like to see it stopped. I should like to see it go much further. Then there is the touring company. If it makes a claim that it is not being run for profit it can be exempted from the Entertainments Duty. I would press the Chancellor of the Exchequer to do something to prevent this form of exemption, which if it is allowed will lead to disastrous results, morally and financially.
§ Mr. Lovat-FraserI support the Motion.
§ 7.57 p.m.
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleThe hon. Member has made an eloquent plea for the living stage, and I can assure him that his words will not fall on unsympathetic ears. But our sympathy must be governed by its practicability. I would remind hon. Members of the steps which were taken recently to assist the living stage.
§ Mr. DenvilleWith success.
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleI am glad to have that tribute as to the value of the steps which have been taken. The National Government in 1935 thought fit to abolish the Entertainments Duty altogether on prices below 6d. and in the case of the higher prices to make reductions which gave a preference to the living performers. In looking through the hon. Member's Clause I find that he has not reproduced exactly the Section of the Act which gives that relief. He has left out some words. I am not sure whether it is an intentional or a chance omission, but he has left out the words:
performance of music (whether vocal or instrumental) a lecture or a recitation.I presume his intention is to give relief to all live performers who were assisted by the Act of 1935.
§ Mr. DenvilleIt was thought that if those words were left in a performance with a hurdy-gurdy might be classed as a musical entertainment. The matter was discussed, but we are not particular so long as you give us relief.
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleThe hon. Member is a little too optimistic; I see that there is something behind the omission of those words. The remission which was made has had a beneficial effect. It was given with that intention. Our sympathy, however, must be attended with practicability, and the proposal of the hon. Member would cost about £370,000 this year and £1,250,000 in a full year. The hon. Member said that if the country were in danger, the artists on the stage would be the last people to refuse to do their part, and I agree with him; but I am bound to say that this year is one of great financial strain, and although we listen sympathetically to this proposal, we regret that we cannot accept it.
§ Mr. DenvilleWill the right hon. and gallant Gentleman say what would be the saving to the State? Our case is that this proposal would save more than it is costing the Treasury.
§ 8.1 p.m.
§ Mr. Herbert MorrisonIt appears to hon. Members on these benches that the purpose of this proposed new Clause is a very good one and that it is calculated to assist the preservation of the stage play 440 and of the theatres where the entertainment is given by living performers. I understand from the hon. Member who moved the new Clause that a memorial on this matter had the support of 300 hon. Members, and I hope that those who signed the memorial to the Government will follow it up by supporting the proposed Clause in the Division Lobby. Hon. Members on this side hope there will be a Division, and we shall support the proposed Clause. A Division will be a test as to whether the hon. Member and the 300 memorialists will back up the memorial or not.
§ 8.2 p.m.
§ Mr. EdeI wish to support the views of my right hon. Friend the Member for South Hackney (Mr. H. Morrison). I had hoped that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman would have said something that indicated that when the time came this matter would receive some practical sympathy instead of the easily-spoken sympathetic words with which the proposed Clause has been turned down.
§ Lieut.-Colonel ColvilleDoes the hon. Member deny that practical sympathy was shown only two years ago?
§ Mr. EdeFull gratitude is only a lively sense of favours to come, and not of things done just before a General Election. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman and his friends have "cashed in" on that. I am sure they all did very much better than they expected, and they know they did much better than they deserved; and to bring that up this evening as an excuse for being unsympathetic now is to show a political naivete of which I should have thought no Scotsman would have been guilty. I feel that the hon. Member for Central Newcastle (Mr. Denville) was entitled to something more from the Government than he received in the speech from the Financial Secretary.
If my right hon. Friend goes into the Division Lobby in favour of this proposed Clause, I shall go with him, because I sincerely believe that it is in the interests of the intellectual life of the nation. After all, I should not have thought that the National Government, with a Conservative Financial Secretary and an ex-Liberal Chancellor of the Exchequer, would be opposed to somebody making a profit out of the intellectual life of the nation. If we are to see that preserved, I am sure it will have to receive assistance 441 at least in the form that is advocated by the hon. Member for Central Newcastle, and I am not sure that we shall not have to follow the example of some foreign countries and see that the best forms of the drama and the ballet are supported from public funds by direct contribution. That is not raised in the proposed new Clause, but in view of the entirely unsympathetic statement that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman gave to the Committee, I shall feel compelled to vote with. my right hon. Friend.
§ 8.5 p.m.
§ Mr. DenvilleIn view of the not unsympathetic answer of my right hon. and gallant Friend, and feeling that nothing would be achieved by pressing this to a Division, I beg to ask leave to withdraw the Clause.
§ "Question put, "That the Clause be read a Second time."
§ The Committee divided: Ayes, 130; Noes, 192.
443| Division No. 265.] | AYES. | [8.6 p.m. |
| Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke | Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) | Paling, W. |
| Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) | Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) | Parker, J. |
| Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'Isbr.) | Harvey, T. E. (Eng. Univ's.) | Parkinson, J. A. |
| Ammon, C. G. | Hayday, A. | Price, M. P. |
| Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. | Henderson, A. (Kingswinford) | Pritt, D. N. |
| Banfield, J. W. | Henderson, J. (Ardwick) | Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.) |
| Barnes, A. J. | Henderson, T. (Tradeston) | Richards, R. (Wrexham) |
| Barr, J. | Herbert, A. P. (Oxford U.) | Rickards, G. W. (Skipton) |
| Batey, J. | Hills, A. (Pontefract) | Ridley, G. |
| Ballenger, F. J. | Holdsworth, H. | Riley, B. |
| Benn, Rt. Hon. W. W. | Hopkin, D. | Ritson, J. |
| Bracken, B. | Jagger, J. | Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.) |
| Broad, F. A. | Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) | Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.) |
| Bromfield, W. | John, W. | Rowson, G. |
| Brown, C. (Mansfield) | Jones, A. C. (Shipley) | Salter, Dr. A. (Bermondsey) |
| Burks, W. A. | Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) | Sanders, W. S. |
| Chater, D. | Kelly, W. T. | Seely, Sir H. M. |
| Cluse, W. S. | Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. | Sexton, T. M. |
| Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. | Kirkwood, D. | Shinwell, E. |
| Cocks, F. S. | Lathan, G. | Silverman, S. S. |
| Cove, W. G. | Lawson, J. J. | Simpson, F. B. |
| Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford | Leach, W. | Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) |
| Daggar, G. | Lee, F. | Smith, E. (Stoke) |
| Dalton, H. | Leonard, W. | Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly) |
| Davidson, J. J. (Maryhill) | Leslie, J. R. | Smith, T. (Normanton) |
| Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) | Logan, D. G. | Sorensen, R. W. |
| Day, H. | Lunn, W. | Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) |
| Dobbie, W. | Macdonald, G. (Ince) | Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.) |
| Dunn, E. (Rather Valley) | McEntee, V. La T. | Tate, Mavis C. |
| Ede, J. C. | McGhee, H. G. | Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) |
| Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) | MaoLaren, A. | Thorne, W. |
| Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) | Maclean, N. | Tinker, J. J. |
| Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) | MacMillan, M. (Western Isles) | Viant, S. P. |
| Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. | Mainwaring, W. H. | Walker, J. |
| Frankel, D. | Maxton, J. | Watkins, F. C. |
| Gallacher, W. | Messer, F. | Watson, W. McL. |
| George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) | Milner, Major J. | Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C. |
| Graham, D. M. (Hamilton) | Montague, F. | Welsh, J. C. |
| Green, W. H. (Deptford) | Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) | Westwood, J. |
| Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. | Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) | Williams, T. (Don Valley) |
| Grenfell, D. R. | Muff, G. | Windsor, W. (Hull, C.) |
| Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) | Naylor, T. E. | Woods, G. S. (Finsbury) |
| Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) | Noel-Baker, P. J. | |
| Groves, T. E. | Owen, Major G. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES.— |
| Mr. Charleton and Mr. Whiteley. | ||
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. C. J. | Beit, Sir A. L. | Cartland, J. R. H. |
| Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. | Bennett, Sir E. N. | Carver, Major W. H. |
| Anstruther-Gray, W. J. | Blaker, Sir R. | Cary, R. A. |
| Aske, Sir R. W. | Boothby, R. J. G. | Cayzer, Sir H. R. (Portsmouth, S.) |
| Assheton, R. | Boulton, W. W. | Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) |
| Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) | Bower, Comdr. R. T. | Channon, H. |
| Baillie, Sir A. W. M. | Boyce, H. Leslie | Clarke, F. E. (Dartford) |
| Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. | Brass, Sir W. | Clarry, Sir Reginald |
| Balfour, G. (Hampstead) | Briscoe, Capt. R. G. | Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) |
| Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) | Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) | Colfox, Major W. P. |
| Balniel, Lord | Bull, B. B. | Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J. |
| Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. | Burghley, Lord | Conant, Captain R. J. E. |
| Beauchamp, Sir B. C. | Burton, Col. H. W. | Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) |
| Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) | Campbell, Sir E. T. | Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S. G'gs) |
| Courthope, Col. Rt. Hon. Sir G. L. | Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) | Reid, W. Allan (Derby) |
| Crooke, J. S. | Heilgers, Captain F. F. A, | Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) |
| Groom-Johnson, R. P. | Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan- | Ropner, Colonel L. |
| Cross, R. H. | Hepworth, J. | Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) |
| Crossley, A. C. | Higgs, W. F. | Royds, Admiral P. M. R. |
| Cruddas, Col. B. | Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) | Russell, Sir Alexander |
| Culverwell, C. T. | Holmes, J. S. | Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury) |
| Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) | Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. | Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) |
| Dawson, Sir P. | Here-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. | Salmon, Sir I. |
| De Chair, S. S. | Hudson, R. S. (Southport) | Salt, E. W. |
| Denman, Hon. R. D. | Hume, Sir G. H. | Samuel, M. R. A. |
| Doland, G. F. | Hurd, Sir P. A. | Savery, Sir Servington |
| Donner, P. W. | Hutchinson, G. C. | Selley, H. R. |
| Dower, Major A. V. G. | Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H. | Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree) |
| Drewe, C. | James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. | Simmonds, O. E. |
| Duckworth, Arthur (Shrewsbury) | Joel, D. J. B. | Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. |
| Duncan, J. A. L. | Jones, Sir H. Haydn (Merioneth) | Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D. |
| Eastwood, J. F. | Jones, L. (Swansea W.) | Smith, L. W. (Hallam) |
| Eckersley, P. T. | Latham, Sir P. | Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe) |
| Edmondson, Major Sir J. | Law, Sir A. J. (High Peak) | Southby, Commander Sir A. R. J. |
| Ellis, Sir G. | Leckie, J. A. | Spans. W. P |
| Elliston, Capt. G. S. | Lees-Jones, J. | Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'I'd) |
| Elmley, Viscount | Levy, T. | Tacker, Sir R. I. |
| Emery, J. F. | Lewis, O. | Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.) |
| Emmott, C. E. G. C. | Lovat-Fraser, J. A | Thomas, J. P. L. |
| Emrys-Evans, P. V. | MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. | Titchfield, Marquess of |
| Errington, E. | Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) | Touche, G. C. |
| Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) | McKie, J. H. | Tree, A. R. L. F. |
| Everard, W. L. | Macquisten, F. A. | Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C. |
| Fildes, Sir H. | Magnay, T. | Tufnell, Lieut.-Commander R. L. |
| Fleming, E. L. | Makins, Brig.-Gen. E. | Wakefield, W. W. |
| Fox, Sir G. W. G. | Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. | Walker-Smith, Sir J. |
| Fyfe, D. P. M. | Marsden, Commander A. | Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan |
| Ganzoni, Sir J. | Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. | Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) |
| Gibson, Sir C. G. (Pudsey and Otley) | Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) | Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend) |
| Gledhill, G. | Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) | Warrender, Sir V. |
| Gluckstein, L H. | Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) | Waterhouse, Captain C. |
| Gower, Sir R. V. | Munro, P. | Watt, C. S. H. |
| Grant-Ferris, R. | Nall, Sir J. | Wells, S. R. |
| Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. | O'Connor, Sir Terence J. | Whiteley, Major J. P. (Buckingham) |
| Gridley, Sir A. B. | O'Neill, Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh | Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.) |
| Grigg, Sir E. W. M. | Orr-Ewing, I. L. | Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin) |
| Grimston, R. V. | Palmer, G. E. H. | Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl |
| Gritten, W. G. Howard | Petherick, M. | Withers, Sir J. J. |
| Guinness, T. L. E. B. | Ponsonby, Col. C. E. | Womersley, Sir W. J. |
| Gunston, Capt. D. W. | Porritt, R. W. | Wood, Hon. C. I. C. |
| Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H. | Pownall, Lt.-Col. Sir Assheton | Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C. |
| Hannah, I. C. | Radford, E. A. | |
| Harbord, A. | Rankin, Sir R. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES.— |
| Harvey, Sir G. | Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) | Captain Dugdale and Mr. Furness. |
| Haslam, Henry (Horncastle) | Reed, A. C. (Exeter) |
Question, "That the Schedule be read a Second time," put, and agreed to.
§ Schedules 1 to 3 agreed to.
§ Schedules 4 to 7 disagreed to.