HC Deb 26 January 1937 vol 319 cc907-11

Order for Third Reading read.

11.12 p.m.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Lieut.-Colonel Colville)

I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read the Third time."

I am very mindful of the spiritual injunction to avoid vain repetition. We have on a number of occasions discussed the provisions of this Bill very fully, and I do not intend to take up more than a few moments in moving the Third Reading. We have on our side expressed our view that this is an essential part of our long-term beef policy and that the duties are of moderate amounts. We have, again, expressed our view, which is not shared by hon. Members opposite, that the burden of these duties will not by any means wholly fall on the ultimate consumer. There are many stages through which the goods pass before they meet the ultimate consumer—the producer, processor, shipper, importer, distributor and wholesaler—and on the way we believe that the shock will be greatly minimised, if there be any shock for the ultimate consumer at all. Hon. Members opposite have expressed the opposite view, but I think the House as a whole will be content to endorse the opinion of the Government that the ultimate interest of the consumer is best served by preserving on a sound basis the livestock industry of this country. The duties, the Measure for the application of which we are now reaching the concluding stages, form an essential part of that policy.

11.14. p.m.

Mr. T. Williams

After the very meaty subject with which we have been dealing, it would be absurd for us to prolong

this Debate unduly. On all the previous occasions when this Bill has been before the House we have expressed in very moderate terms our opposition to it, and, in spite of the last sentence or two of the Financial Secretary, we still disagree with the point of view which he expresses. I do not intend to argue the contents of the Measure or the ultimate result of it. When, however, the hon. and gallant Gentleman tells us that because of the multiplicity of hands through which meat passes before it reaches the consumer they will all bear a small portion of these duties, I beg leave to disagree with him, for all our experience has gone to show that when retailers are called upon to collect a duty they invariably add a little to it for having collected it. Instead of the duty not falling upon the consumer, or only partially on the consumer, we still believe that ultimately and almost inevitably it will fall upon the consumer; if it does not, the Government's policy is bound to fail. Last night we had a bit of light thrown on the question of who is going to bear the burden, and I do not want to argue with the hon. and gallant Member now on who is going to foot the bill. I prefer to leave that to the hon. Members on his own benches, the hon. Member for Newport (Sir R. Clarry) and the hon. Member for St. Albans (Sir F. Fremantle) who rather chided us for smiling at their confirmation of our point of view. We accept their point of view—as expressed in the last moments of the Debate. We still think that the policy is entirely ill-conceived, and will not contribute to a final and successful beef policy, we are certain it will impose burdens on the poorer section of the community, and that it will be contrary to a sound nutrition policy and for those reasons we are bound to oppose the Third Reading.

Question put, "That the Bill be now Read the Third time."

The House divided: Ayes, 258; Noes, 123.

Division No. 56.] AYES. [11.16 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Barclay-Harvey, Sir G. M. Bower, Comdr. R. T.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Beamish, Rear-Admiral T. P. H. Bowyer, Capt. Sir G. E. W.
Albery, Sir Irving Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Boyce, H. Leslie
Anderson, Sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Bennett, Capt. Sir E. N. Boyd-Carpenter, Major Sir A. B.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Birchall, Sir J, D. Briscoe, Capt. R. G.
Apsley, Lord Bird, Sir R. B. Brocklebank, C. E. R.
Assheton, R. Blair, Sir R. Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith)
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Blindell, Sir J. Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Bossom, A. C. Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.)
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. Boulton, W. W. Bull, B. B.
Bullock, Capt. M. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Rankin, R.
Burton, Col. H. W. Holmes, J. S. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin)
Butler, Ft. A. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Rayner, Major R. H.
Cartland, J. R. H. Hopkinson, A. Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Cary, R. A. Hore-Belisha, Rt. Hon. L. Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) Howitt, Dr. A. B. Rickards, G. W. (Skipton)
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ropner, Colonel L.
Channon, H. Hunter, T. Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry)
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Hurd, Sir P. A. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Jackson, Sir H. Rowlands, G.
Chorlton, A. E. L. James, Wing-Commander A. W. H. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Clarry, Sir Reginald Jones, L. (Swansea W.) Russell, A. West (Tynemouth)
Clydesdale, Marquess of Keeling, E. H. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Salmon, Sir I.
Colfax, Major W. P. Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.) Salt, E. W.
Colman, N. C. D. Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J. Kimball, L. Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff (W'st'r S.G'gs) Lamb, Sir J. Q. Sandys, E. D.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Leckie, J. A. Savory, Servington
Craven-Ellis, W. Leech, Dr. J. W. Scott, Lord William
Critchley, A. Lees-Jones, J. Shakespeare, G. H.
Crooke, J. S. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree)
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Levy, T. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Liddall, W. S. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Cress, R. H. Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J. Simmonds, O. E.
Crossley, A. C. Lloyd, G. W. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A.
Crowder, J. F. E. Looker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S. Sinclair, Col. T. (Queen's U. B'lf'st)
Cruddas, Col. B. Loftus, P. C. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Culverwell, C. T. Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Davies, C. (Montgomery) Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Somerset, T.
Dawson, Sir P. M'Connell, Sir J. Somervell. Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Denville, Alfred McCorquodale, M. S. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Dixon, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. J. R. (Scot. U.) Southby, Commander A. R. J.
Doland, G. F. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross) Spears, Brigadier-General E. L.
Donner, P. W. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Spens, W. P.
Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. McEwen, Capt. J. H. F. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Drewe, C. McKie, J. H. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'Pd)
Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees) Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.)
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Stewart, William J. (Belfast, S.)
Dugdale, Major T. L. Maitland, A. Storey, S.
Duggan, H. J. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Dunne, P. R. R. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Eastwood, J. F. Markham, S. F. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Edge, Sir W. Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Edmondson, Major Sir J. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Elliot, Rt. Hon. W. E. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Sutcliffe, H.
Elliston, Capt. G. S. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
Elmley, Viscount Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick) Touche, G. C.
Entwistle, C. F. Moreing, A. C. Train, Sir J.
Errington, E. Morgan, R. H. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Erskine-Hill, A. G. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Turton, R. H.
Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Wakefield, W. W.
Everard, W. L. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Walker-Smith, Sir J.
Fox, Sir G. W. G. Munro, P. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Fremantle, Sir F. E Nail, Sir t. Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Fyfe, D. P. M. Neven-Spence, Major B. H. H. Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Ganzoni, Sir J. O'Connor, Sir Terence J. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Wayland, Sir W. A
Gluckstein, L. H. Palmer, G. E. H. Wells, S. R.
Graham, Captain A. C. (Wirral) Peake, O. Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T. R.
Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Peat, C. U. Williams, C. (Torquay)
Gridley, Sir A. B. Penny, Sir G. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Grigg, Sir E. W. M. Petherick, M. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Grimston, R. V.
Gritten, W. G. Howard Pickthorn, K. W. M. Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.) Pilkington, R. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Guy, J. C. M. Plugge, Capt. L. F. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Hanbury, Sir C. Porritt, R. W. Wragg, H.
Hannah, I. C. Procter, Major H. A. Wright, Squadron-Loader J. A. C.
Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle) Radford, E. A. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Raikes, H. V. A. M.
Heilgers, Captain F. F. A. Ramsay, Captain A. H. M. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Heneage, Lieut.-Colonel A. P. Ramsbotham, H. Mr. James Stuart and Dr. Morris-Jones.
Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan Ramsden, Sir E.
Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke Adamson, W. M. Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R.
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Barnes, A. J.
Adams, D. (Consett) Ammon, C. G. Barr, J.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Batey, J.
Bellenger, F. J. Harris, Sir P. A. Parkinson, J. A.
Benton, G. Hayday, A. Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Bevan, A. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Potts, J.
Broad, F. A. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Price, M. P.
Bromfield, W. Hicks, E. G. Pritt, D. N.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Hills, A. (Pontefract) Quibell, D. J. K.
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Hollins, A. Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Buchanan, G. Jagger, J. Ridley, G.
Burke, W. A. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Riley, B.
Cape, T. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Ritson, J.
Castells, T. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Charleton, H. C. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Chafer, D. Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) Rawson, G.
Cluse, W. S. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Selley, H. R.
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Kelly, W. T. Sexton, T. M.
Dalton, H. Kirby, B. V. Silkin, L.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Lathan, G. Silverman, S. S.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Lawson, J. J. Simpson, F. B.
Dobbie, W. Leach, W. Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Leslie, J. R. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Ede, J. C. Logan, D. G. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Lunn, W. Sorensen, R. W.
Evans, D. 0. (Cardigan) Macdonald, G. (Ince) Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) McEntee, V. La T. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. McGhee, H. G. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Foot, D. M. Maclean, N. Thurtle, E.
Frankel, D. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles) Tinker, J. J.
Gallacher, W. MacNeill, Weir, L. Viant, S. P.
Gardner, B. W- Mainwaring, W. H. Walker, J.
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Marshall, F. Watkins, F. C.
Gibbins, J. Messer, F. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Milner, Major J. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Grenfell, D. R. Muff, G. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Noel-Baker, P. J. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Oliver, G. H.
Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Paling, W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hardie, G. D. Parker, J. Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Mathers.

Question put, and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time, and passed.