HC Deb 23 February 1937 vol 320 cc1833-6
Mr. Sandys

(by Private Notice) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether, in view of the forthcoming Debate on the Defence Loans Bill, he is now in a position to make a statement regarding the measures proposed for supplementing the fire brigade services to meet the dangers of incendiary attack from the air.

The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sir John Simon)

A memorandum on emergency fire brigade organisation is being issued to-day to local authorities for their guidance in preparing local emergency fire brigade schemes. The organisation suggested will involve the accumulation in peace-time of large stocks of emergency fire-fighting appliances, including high-power pumping units and trailer pumps, together with hose and other equipment. It will also be necessary to prepare in advance for the establishment of emergency fire stations and of a system of patrol units and fire posts to keep all streets under frequent observation and to be in a position to attack incipient fires without delay. For these purposes large numbers of auxiliary personnel will require to be recruited and trained in peace-time with a view to whole-time or part-time service with the fire brigades in an emergency.

The Government are considering representations from the local authorities as to the incidence of the cost of any necessary air raid precautions and emergency fire brigade measures. Pending a decision on this question, the Government are undertaking to provide in kind approved types of appliances, with hose and equipment, up to a proportion of the local authorities' requirements under their approved local emergency schemes, and grants will be made towards the cost of the initial training and equipment of auxiliary personnel. Appropriate provision will be made in the forthcoming Estimates. Details of the Exchequer assistance under these heads are given in a circular which is also being issued to-day to local authorities. This circular and the Memorandum already referred to are being placed on sale, and copies are being placed in the Library of the House.

Mr. Sandys

Whilst thanking the right hon. Gentleman for a most satisfactory statement, may I ask him whether in view of his promise of extensive Exchequer assistance the Government will have a certain measure of control over the manner in which local authorities carry out these schemes?

Sir J. Simon

The scheme is at this stage, at any rate, one where appliances and apparatus are being provided in kind. The Government are providing the stocks of material and that gives a very definite measure of control.

Sir J. Lamb

Can the right hon. Gentleman say whether the scheme arranges for provision being made for the whole country, including outlying rural areas, where food may be stored?

Sir J. Simon

The needs of the whole country are being surveyed, but I do not think it will follow that every corner of this island is in an equally anxious state.

Mr. Westwood

Will the Home Secretary state whether his answer applies to Scottish local authorities as well as to English local authorities?

Sir J. Simon

We do not draw a line on this occasion between England and Scotland.

Mr. Westwood

May I ask whether the provision of assistance is to apply to the Scottish authorities as to the English authorities?

Sir J. Simon

Yes. I intended to say that.

Mr. Bellenger

Will this greatly expanded service still be under the administration of the local authorities, as at present, or will there be any co-ordination, for instance, in the larger towns?

Sir J. Simon

Local management remains, but there is in preparation a system of regional organisation, which will tend to bring about co-operation between the different units.

Mr. R. C. Morrison

Will the right hon. Gentleman bear in mind that it is very difficult for the local authorities to make up their minds definitely on this matter until they know the complete scheme of the Government? Will the right hon. Gentleman do what he can to see that, instead of the local authorities being advised in bits and pieces about the scheme at the time they will know the complete proposals of the Government?

Sir J. Simon

If the hon. Member will look at the Memorandum which is being issued to-day he will see that that is by no means overlooked.

Sir J. Haslam

The right hon. Gentleman speaks about material for the fire brigades. Will he remember that there are vast numbers of voluntary fire brigades connected with works throughout the country, and will he see that these people are taken into consideration and brought within the scheme in some way or other? They do not need material, but I think they need financial assistance.

Sir J. Simon

If the hon. Member will look at the Memorandum I think he will see that a very important part of it is that which deals with auxiliary personnel. It would be desirable to study the Memorandum. It is very difficult without reading it at length to get a conception of the whole scheme.