HC Deb 09 February 1937 vol 320 cc355-9

Motion made, and Question proposed, That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £12,100, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1937, for Expenditure in respect of Royal Palaces, including a Grant in Aid.

10.56 p.m.

Mr. Charles Brown

I want to ask one question on this Estimate. There is a detail mentioned upon which I should like an explanation. We are told that £8,270 is to be spent on St. James's Palace in connection with changes of residential occupation. Is it too much to ask the Minister the reason for these changes, and who is to occupy the premises when the £8,270 has been spent? Further, is not this Supplementary Estimate premature in view of the fact that a new Civil List is in preparation? Could not this matter have been deferred until the new Civil List has been passed by the House? We shall be glad if the Minister will give us an explanation on these two points.

10.57 p.m.

Mr. Kelly

I should also like to ask why it is necessary there should be such alterations as to cost no less a sum than £8,000 because of the change of one occupant for another? Then there is also a small amount of £3,830 upon which there is no word of explanation on what it is to be spent or where it is to be spent. Perhaps the Minister will explain what it means. I hope it does not mean that we are taking some portion of some other place, altering it, and then paying rent for it.

10.59 p.m.

Mr. R. J. Taylor

This appears to be an enormous sum of money to spend on houses designated as palaces which are not being occupied. Hon. Members who know anything of the building trade are aware that the rate of depreciation and of disrepair increases with the age of the building, but it seems to me that if we have to spend such an enormous sum on these places so that they may be occupied at infrequent intervals, it would be just as well if we disposed of them altogether. I believe that the first duty of this House is to see that the scales of equity and of justice are held equally and fairly as between the people who occupy Royal palaces and the people who occupy the humble dwellings of this land. Therefore, the first essential—

The Deputy-Chairman

On a Supplementary Estimate the hon. Member can only go into details of the Estimate, not into questions of policy.

Mr. Taylor

If these houses are unoccupied—I suppose I may have some difficulty in keeping in order—I think I could find occupants for these palaces—

The Deputy-Chairman

That does not arise on this occasion.

Mr. Taylor

While we are spending these enormous sums of money on these palaces, we have people who are unable to find houses because the Government

have failed, are failing, and are likely to continue to fail—

The Deputy-Chairman

The hon. Member is not in order.

11.3 p.m.

Mr. Hudson

The Vote for which we are asking could not have been foreseen in the original Estimate. It is to cover the cost of repairs caused by the death of His Majesty King George V. On the accession of His Majesty King Edward VIII certain alterations were made in the occupation of the various residences, and the sums that I am asking for now are in respect of those alterations. The bulk of them are for redecoration and alterations consequent on changes of officials, a portion of them, to the extent of £1,850, for the changes consequent on the occupation of York House by His Royal Highness the Duke of Gloucester, £1,410 for alterations to the Coach House at Marlborough House, and £570 for alterations in the guard room at St. James's Palace consequent on the increased guard needed for mounting the guard at Marlborough House. The remainder, £4,320, is for changes in residences occupied by the various officials of the Household.

Question put, "That a sum, not exceeding £12,100, be granted for the said Service."

The Committee divided: Ayes, 182; Noes, 98.

Division No. 78.] AYES. [11.5 p.m.
Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke Cobb, Captain E. C. (Preston) Fleming, E. L.
Acland-Troyte, Ll.-Col. G. J. Colfox, Major W. P. Foot, D. M.
Albery, Sir Irving Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J. Furness, S. N.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Ganzoni, Sir J.
Allen, Lt.-Col. Sir W. J. (Armagh) Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J.
Aske, Sir R. W. Cranborne, Viscount Goldie, N. B.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Critchley, A. Grant-Ferris, R.
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. Crooke, J. S. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J.
Balfour, Capt. H. H. (Isle of Thanet) Croom-Johnson, R. P. Gridley, Sir A. B.
Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M. Cross, R. H. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.)
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Cruddas, Col. B. Guest, Maj. Hon. O. (C'mb'rw'll, N.W.)
Blindell, Sir J. Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Guy, J. C. M.
Bossom, A. C. Dawson, Sir P. Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H.
Boulton, W. W. Denman, Hon. R. D. Harris, Sir P. A.
Braithwaite, Major A. N. Denville, Alfred Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle)
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Heilgera, Captain F. F. A.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Hepworth, J.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Duggan, H. J. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Duncan, J. A. L. Holdsworth, H.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Eastwood, J. F. Holmes, J. S.
Bull, B. B. Eckersley, P. T. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Elliston, Capt. G. S. Horsbrugh, Florence
Campbell, Sir E. T. Emmott, C. E. G. C. Hudson, R. S. (Southport)
Cartland, J. R. H. Emrys-Evans, P. V. Hunter, T.
Channon, H. Erskine-Hill, A. G. Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Jones, L. (Swansea W.)
Clarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead) Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Kerr, H. W. (Oldham)
Clarry, Sir Reginald Fildes, Sir H. Kimball, L.
Lamb, Sir J. Q. Orr-Ewing, I. L. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D.
Leckie, J. A. Palmer, G. E. H. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen)
Leech, Dr. J. W. Penny, Sir G. Somerset, T.
Levy, T. Petherick, M. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Liddall, W. S. Pilkington, R. Southby, Commander A. R. J.
Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J. Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Spens, W. P.
Lloyd, G. W. Porritt, R. W. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Loftus, P. C. Procter, Major H. A. Storey, S.
Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Radford, E. A. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Lumley, Capt. L. R. Raikes, H. V. A. M. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Ramsden, Sir E. Sutcliffe, H.
MacAndrew, Colonel Sir C. G. Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne)
M'Connell, Sir J. Rayner, Major R. H. Thomson, Sir J. D. W.
MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross) Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Tree, A. R. L. F.
Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Reid, Sir D. D. (Down) Turton, R. H.
McKie, J. H. Reid, W. Allan (Derby) Wakefield, W. W.
Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Remer, J. R. Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Magnay, T. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool) Ward, Irene M. B. (Wallsend)
Maitland, A. Ropner, Colonel L. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Manningham-Buller, Sir M. Ross, Major Sir R. D. (Londonderry) Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Wells, S. R.
Markham, S. F. Rowlands, G. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Russell, A. West (Tynemouth) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen) Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Mitchell, H. (Brentford and Chiswick) Salt, E. W. Wise, A. R.
Morgan, R. H. Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney) Womersley, Sir W. J.
Morris-Jones, Sir Henry Sanderson, Sir F. B. Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cirencester) Seely, Sir H. M.
Munro, P. Shakespeare, G. H. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Nall, Sir J. Shaw, Major P. S. (Wavertree) Lieut.-Colonel Sir A. Lambert
Neven-Spence, Major B. H H. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. Ward and Mr. James Stuart.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Adamson, W. M. Hayday, A. Ridley, G.
Ammon, C. G. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Ritson, J.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Hills, A. (Pontefract) Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Hollins, A. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Batey, J. Hopkin, D. Rowson, G.
Bellenger, F. J. Jagger, J. Sexton, T. M.
Benson, G. Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Short, A.
Broad, F. A. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Silkin, L.
Bromfield, W. Jones, A. C. (Shipley) Silverman, S. S.
Brooke, W. Kelly, W. T. Simpson, F. B.
Brown, C. (Mansfield) Lathan, G. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Lawson, J. J. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Buchanan, G. Lee, F. Sorensen, R. W.
Cape, T. Leslie, J. R. Stephen, C.
Chater, D. Logan, D. G. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Cove, W. G. Lunn, W. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Macdonald, G. (Ince) Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) McEntee, V. La T. Tinker, J. J.
Day, H. McGhee, H. G. Viant, S. P.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) MacLaren, A. Walkden, A. G.
Ede, J. C. Maclean, N. Watkins, F. C.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Mainwaring, W. H. Watson, W. McL.
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Marshall, F. Welsh, J. C.
Frankel, D. Morrison, Rt. Hon. H. (Hackney, S.) Westwood, J.
Gardner, B. W. Naylor, T. E. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Garro Jones, G. M. Oliver, G. H. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Owen, Major G. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Paling, W. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Grenfell, D. R. Parker, J. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Parkinson, J. A.
Griffiths, J. (Llanclly) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Groves, T. E. Potts, J. Mr. John and Mr. Mathers.
Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Pritt, D. N.
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