HC Deb 06 December 1937 vol 330 cc14-8
34. Mr. Tinker

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, in view of the heavy burden being carried by voluntary hospitals through the cost of milk, he will take powers to allow them to have it at a cheaper rate, seeing that it is provided for the sick and needy to help them to recover their health?

Mr. Ramsbotham

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to a similar question by the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Mr. Lipson) on 22nd November.

36. Major Procter

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that in 1935, when there was a substantial surplus of milk supplies in Great Britain, the Lancashire cheese-makers assisted the Milk Marketing Board by taking a large proportion of that surplus milk and selling their cheese at non-remunerative prices; and whether he will arrange that at the present time, when supplies of milk are less, these cheese-makers shall be treated by the board with similar generosity?

Mr. Ramsbotham

My right hon. Friend has no precise information as to the first part of the question. As regards the second part of the question, my right hon. Friend does not feel that he can ask the Milk Marketing Board to arrange for further supplies for manufacture into butter and cheese if, in the opinion of the board, the provision of such supplies would be detrimental to the interests of the milk industry.

37. Major Procter

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware of the damage being done to the Lancashire cheese industry by the recent curtailment of their milk supplies; and whether he has made any inquiries with a view to ascertaining whether the manufacturers of such cheese are prepared to pay more than the current price for their milk supplies in order to save their industry from ruin?

39. Sir Gifford Fox

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that in paragraph 8 of the paper setting out the conditions for milk manufacturing rebates for the period 1937–38 there is power to vary the price for the various categories; and why advantage has not been taken of these powers to vary the price of milk used for butter and cheese manufacturing so as to secure an adequate supply?

Mr. Ramsbotham

My right hon. Friend is aware that, owing to the decline in the total quantity of milk available for sale for manufacturing purposes the Milk Marketing Board have been compelled to curtail the supplies to factories producing butter and cheese, which are the least remunerative outlets for milk, in order to maintain supplies in the liquid and higher priced manufacturing markets. The milk is sold under a contract which, I understand, provides for variation of the manufacturing price by agreement between the Central Milk Distributive Committee and the Milk Marketing Board or, subject to certain limitations, by a certificate of a "consulted person" in the event of the committee and the board being unable to agree. My right hon. Friend has no power to alter the terms of the contract, and the question whether a variation of the price, if it could be made, would affect the contract terms as to the allocation of supplies of milk is a question of construction of the contract upon which he cannot undertake to advise.

Major Procter

Is the hon. Member aware that owing to this policy of the Milk Marketing Board of getting a more remunerative price, the Lancashire cheese industry is threatened with extinction and that the milk is being diverted from the butter and cheese makers to the chocolate makers? Does he think that it is more in the interests of Lancashire that the milk should go for making chocolate rather than for making cheese?

Mr. Ramsbotham

I am well aware of the difficulty to which the hon. Member refers. I have come across it in my own constituency. I think the hon. Member will agree that the business of the Milk Marketing Board is to get the most remunerative price for their producers. In this particular case the milk supplied to the chocolate manufacturers commands a higher price than the milk for butter and cheese; consequently, the Milk Marketing Board's business is to get the higher price.

Captain Sir William Brass

Can the hon. Member say whether the price is the only criterion and that in future other considerations will not be taken into account, but only the price will be taken into account by the Board?

Mr. Henderson Stewart

Does the hon. Member agree that the real trouble is the shortage of milk supplies? Can he give any idea whether that growing tendency shows any sign of stopping?

Major Procter

Seeing that the cheese-makers are prepared to pay a higher price, will not the hon. Member's Department give the cheese maker greater preference than the chocolate manufacturers?

Mr. Ramsbotham

That is being considered, but the price was fixed under a contract between the Central Milk Distributive Committee and the Milk Marketing Board, and my right hon. Friend cannot say whether different terms can be made, because that is a question of the construction of the contract. It is true, as I have pointed out in my reply, that there is a decline in the total quantity of milk available for sale for manufacturing purposes; but the House will be glad to know that the consumption of liquid milk has gone up, thereby considerably decreasing the amount available for manufacture.

Mr. T. Williams

Does the hon. Member not agree that the existing system of the production and distribution of milk carries only a very small proportion for manufacturing purposes?

40. Sir G. Fox

asked the Minister of Agriculture when he gave his approval to the present system under which the supply of milk for the manufacturers of butter and cheese in this country provides a less remunerative outlay than the supply of milk for condensing and chocolate-manufacturing purposes; and whether, in view of the fact that from a dietetic point of view the consumption of butter and cheese should be encouraged in preference to the consumption of condensed milk and chocolate, he will arrange at an early date to ensure that ample supplies of milk are available for butter and cheese manufacture in this country?

Mr. Ramsbotham

The fact that milk has to be sold for manufacture into butter and cheese at prices which are unremunerative to milk producers is due to the play of economic forces and not to any provision of the Milk Marketing Scheme. As I have indicated in an earlier reply to my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Accrington (Major Procter), my right hon. Friend feels that he cannot reasonably ask the Milk Marketing Board to arrange for additional supplies for butter and cheese manufacture, if, in the Board's view, the provision of such supplies would operate to the detriment of milk producers.

44. Captain A. Evans

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether any estimate has been formed, and, if so, of what nature, as to the increase which would be effected in the sale of liquid milk if there were control of prices of manufactured milk imports?

Mr. Ramsbotham

No, Sir. For a number of reasons it would be impossible to make a reliable estimate of the kind indicated by my hon. and gallant Friend.

48. Mr. Burke

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been drawn to the increased price of Lancashire and Cheshire cheese due to the inability of the manufacturers to obtain sufficient supplies of milk necessary to meet normal demands; and if he will state what action he proposes to take in the matter?

Mr. Ramsbotham

I would refer the hon. Member to the reply given to my hon. Friend the Member for Eccles (Mr. Cary) on 25th November.

51. Mr. T. Williams

asked the Minister of Agriculture what was the annual average wholesale weighted price of milk, and the distributors' margin for the years 1913–33, and for the present year?

Mr. Ramsbotham

I am doubtful whether it would be possible to supply the hon. Member with information relating to the earlier part of the period to which he refers which will be in any way comparable with the more detailed information now available under the Milk Marketing Scheme. My right hon. Friend will, however, do what he can to meet the hon. Member's request and will communicate the information to the hon. Member as soon as possible.

50. Mr. E. J. Williams

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will authorise the cheap milk scheme for expectant and nursing mothers and children under five years of age for the Ogmore and Garw and Maesteg Urban District Council areas; and whether he will communicate with the Milk Marketing Board and Milk Vendors' Association upon the urgency of such a scheme and their co-operation in these depressed areas?

Mr. Ramsbotham

The schemes for the supply of cheap milk to nursing and expectant mothers and children under five years of age in the Special Areas have been inaugurated for experimental purposes by the Milk Marketing Board, with the co-operation of local distributors and of the local authorities concerned, and with financial assistance from the Commissioner for the Special Areas. My right hon. Friend understands that the Milk Marketing Board do not, at present, contemplate the extension of these experiments to other areas. I would remind the hon. Member that, as announced in the recent White Paper on Milk Policy, it is the intention of the Government to bring forward proposals for securing, in co-operation with the industry, a reduction in the price of liquid milk to local authorities for the purpose of their maternity and child welfare arrangements.

Mr. Williams

When is that likely to be done.

Mr. Ramsbotham

I imagine by legislation this Session.