HC Deb 17 November 1936 vol 317 cc1513-7

May I ask whether the Government propose to give an early opportunity for discussion of the report of Mr. Malcolm Stewart on the distressed areas?


The topic of the Commissioner's report will, I understand, be within the scope of the Debate on the Money Resolution to be taken to-day, and Ministers will, of course, be taking part in the Debate. In these circumstances I would suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that the question should be repeated, if necessary, after to-day's discussion.


Is it not a matter of difficulty to discuss the definite proposals made in that report during the Debate on the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill?


That is obviously a matter for the Chair. We shall see how the Debate proceeds; but I think it is fairly reasonable to suggest that the decision on the matter which the right hon. Gentleman has raised should not be given until after to-day's Debate, when we have seen how it goes.


Does the right hon. Gentleman realise that if the Government were to give an undertaking to introduce a new Bill to deal with the distressed areas, it would facilitate business; and is he not aware that the whole House is dissatisfied with the present position of the distressed areas, and that there is a general desire to see some constructive policy introduced immediately by the Government?


I would ask the hon. Baronet to await the Debate.


Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the Debate this evening arises on a Money Resolution and that this is the first opportunity that the House has had for a Debate on this matter since this very serious report was put before it; and does he not see that it will be very difficult to-night in this first Debate, when dealing with a Financial Resolution, to deal with the full report and the constructive suggestions made?


I fully understand the importance of this matter, but surely it would be reasonable for us to see how the Debate proceeds. The question I was asked was whether or not the Government would find time for discussion. In my answer I did not for one moment say either yes or no. There is to be a Debate to-night in which this matter will be raised, and if necessary the question can be asked after that.


Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that the whole question will largely depend upon the Ruling of the Chair, and would it not be putting the House in a better position and extricating the Chair from a difficulty if the Government introduced a fresh Bill which, under Second Reading conditions, would enable everything in the report to he discussed without limitation Would it not be better even now for the Government to take that line?


I do not think that consideration is in any way overlooked, but I repeat what I said in reply to the hon. Baronet. I cannot be expected to make a statement at the end of questions, and the hon. Member had better await what is said from this side during the Debate.


Is it not the practice in this House on Financial Resolutions not to debate general policy, and has it not frequently been ruled that the appropriate occasion is either on Second Reading or in Committee in the case of an ordinary Bill, and that the Financial Resolution is an inappropriate time to raise a large question of general policy?


May I ask the right hon. Gentleman why he feels it necessary at this early period of the Session to ask for the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule?


Am I not in Order, Mr. Speaker, in asking the Leader of the House the reason for the suspension of the Eleven o'Clock Rule and what business he proposes to take in the event of the Motion being carried? I wish to know particularly with reference to an important Motion appearing on the Paper dealing with the salaries of judges?


Will the deputy-leader of the Government reply?


I am prepared to deal with that matter, but I thought it was already understood in all quarters and that that was why there had been no specific mention of it. We are taking, as the House appreciates, the Instructions to Governors of Provinces under the

Government of India Act and the Instructions to the Governor of Burma under the Government of Burma Act, as the first business. When that has been disposed of, we shall take the Second Reading of the Expiring Laws Continuance Bill which is generally a formal stage. Afterwards we shall take the Committee stage of the Money Resolution in connection with that Bill and, as far as I am advised, there will be scope for a discussion of the Special Areas on that Order. That is the only business that we propose to take to-day and hon. Members below the Gangway need have no concern that the Motion concerning statutory salaries of judges and others will come up for discussion to-day.

Motion made, and Question put, That the Proceedings on Government Business be exempted, at this day's Sitting, from the provisions of the Standing Order (Sittings of the House)."—[Sir John Simon.]

The House divided: Ayes, 229; Noes, 108.

Division No. 8.] AYES. [3.52 p.m.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Courtauld, Major J. S. Hepburn, P. G. T. Buchan-
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Craddock, Sir R. H. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth)
Albery, Sir I. J. Cranborne, Viscount Hoare, Rt. Hon. Sir S.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Crooke, J. S. Holdsworth, H.
Apsley, Lord Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Holmes, J. S.
Aske, Sir R. W. Crowder, J. F. E, Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J.
Assheton, R. Culverwell, C. T. Howitt, Dr. A. B.
Athoil, Duchess of Davies, Major Sir G. F. (Yeovil) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.)
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Davison, Sir W. H. Hudson, R. S. (Southport)
Baldwin-Webb, Col. J. De Chair, S. S. Hulbert, N. J.
Barclay-Harvey, Sir C. M. De la Bère, R. Hunter, T.
Baxter, A. Beverley Denman, Hon. R. D. Hurd, Sir P. A.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Doland, G. F. Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Donner, P. W. James, Wing-commander A. W.
Bennett, Capt. Sir E. N. Drewe, C. Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth)
Birchall, Sir J. D. Dugdale, Major T. L. Jones, L. (Swansea, W.)
Bird, Sir R. B. Duggan, H. J. Kerr, J. Graham (Scottish Univs.)
Blair, Sir R. Duncan, J. A. L. Keyes, Admiral of the Fleet Sir R.
Blindell, Sir J. Edmondson, Major Sir J. Kimball, L.
Boothby, R. J. G. Elliston, G. S. Knox, Major-General Sir A. W. F.
Bossom, A. C. Elmley, Viscount Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Boulton, W. W. Emery, J. F. Lambert, Rt. Hon. G.
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Emmott, C. E. G. C. Leckle, J. A.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Emrys-Evans, P. V. Lees-Jones, J.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Everard, W. L. Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Fildes, Sir H. Lennox-Boyd, A. T. L.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Fleming, E. L. Lewis, O.
Bull, B. B. Fraser, Capt. Sir I. Llewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.
Bullock, Capt. M. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Lloyd, G. W.
Butler, R. A. Fyfe, D. P. M. Locker-Lampson, Comdr. O. S.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Ganzoni, Sir J. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Cartland, J. R. H. Gluckstein, L. H. MacAndrew. Colonel Sir C. G.
Cary, R. A. Goodman, Col. A. W. M'Connell, Sir J.
Castlereagh, Viscount Greene, w. P. C. (Worcester) MacDonald, Rt. Hn. J. R. (Scot. U.)
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. MacDonald, Rt. Hon M. (Ross)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. Sir A. (Br.W.) Gridley, Sir A. B. Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Grimston, R. V. McEwen, Capt. J. H. F.
Channon, H. Gritten, W. G. Howard Maclay, Hon. J. P.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor) Macmillan, H. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Christie, J. A. Hanbury, Sir C. Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Hannah, I. C. Maitland, A.
Clarke, Lt.-Col. R. S. (E. Grinstead) Hannon, Sir P. J. H, Mannigham-Buller, Sir M.
Colville, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. D. J. Harvey, Sir G. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon H. D. R.
Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Haslam, H. C. (Horncastle) Markham, S. F.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Maxwell, S. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh,W.) Hellgers, Captain F. F. A. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.
Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth) Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge) Strauss, E. A. (Southwark, N.)
Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) Rowlands, G. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Moore-Brabazon, Lt.-Col. J. T. C. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Morgan, R. H. Runciman, Rt. Hon. W. Sutcliffe, H.
Morris, O. T. (Cardiff, E.) Russell, A. West (Tynemouth) Tasker, Sir R. I.
Morris-Jones, Dr. J. H. Salmon, Sir I. Taylor, Vice-Adm. E. A. (Padd., S.)
Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.) Salt, E. W. Touche, G. C.
Morrison, Rt. Hon. W. S. (Cir'nc'st'r) Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham) Train, Sir J.
Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J. Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney) Tree, A. R. L. F.
Munro, P. Sandeman, Sir N. S. Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H. H. Sanderson, Sir F, B. Tufnell, Lieut.-Com. R. L.
O'Neill, Major Rt. Hon. Sir Hugh Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P. Turton, R. H.
Orr-Ewing, I. L. Savery, Servington Wallace, Capt. Rt. Hon. Euan
Palmer, G. E. H. Scott, Lord William Waterhouse, Captain C.
Peake, O. Shepperson, Sir E. W. Wayland, Sir W. A.
Peat, C. U. Simon, Rt. Hon. Sir J. A. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Petherick, M. Smiles, Lieut.-Colonel Sir W. D. Wells, S. R.
Pickthorn, K. W. M. Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich) Wickham, Lt.-Col. E. T, R.
Pilkington, R. Smith, L. W. (Hallam) Williams, C. (Torquay)
Plugge, L. F. Smith, Sir R. W. (Aberdeen) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Ponsonby, Col. C. E. Smithers, Sir W. Willoughby do Eresby, Lord
Pownall, Sir Assheton Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Radford, E. A. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Ramsbotham, H. Southby, Comdr. A. R. J. Winterton, Rt. Hon. Earl
Rankin, R. Spears, Brig.-Gen. E. L. Wise, A. R.
Rathbone, J. R. (Bodmin) Spender-Clay, Lt.-Cl. Rt. Hn. H. H. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Reed, A. C. (Exeter) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde) Wright, Squadron-Leader J. A. C.
Reid, Captain A. Cunningham Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Remer, J. R. Stewart, J. Henderson (Fife, E.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Rickards, G. w. (Skipton) Stewart, William J. (Belfast, S.) Sir George Penny and Lieut-
Ropner, Colonel L. Storey, S. Colonel Sir A. Lambert Ward.
Ross, Major Sir R. D. (L'derry) Stourton, Major Hon. J. J.
Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Acland, R. T. D. (Barnstaple) Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Ridley, G.
Adams, D. (Consett) Hall, G. H. (Aberdare) Ritson, J.
Adams, D. M. (Poplar, S.) Hardle, G. D. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Adamson, W. M. Harris. Sir P. A. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Ammon, C. G. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Rothschild, J. A. de
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Jenkins, A. (Pontypool) Rowson, G.
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Sanders, W. S.
Barr, J. John, W. Seely, Sir H. M.
Batey, J. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Shinwell, E.
Bellenger, F. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Silverman, S. S.
Benson, G. Kirby, B. V. Simpson, F. B.
Bevan, A. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Broad, F. A. Lathan, G. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Brooke, W. Lawson, J. J. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Brown, Rt. Hon. J. (S. Ayrshire) Leach, W. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees-(K'ly)
Buchanan, G. Leonard, W. Sorensen, R. W.
Burke, W. A. Leslie, J. R. Stephen, C.
Cape, T. Lunn, W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Charleton, H. C. McEntee, V. La T. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Cluse, W. S. McGhee, H. G. Thorne, W.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. Maclean, N. Thurtle, E.
Cocks, F. S. Mainwaring, W. H. Tinker, J. J.
Cove, W. G. Mander, G. le M. Viant, S. P.
Daggar, G. Mathers, G. Walkden, A. G.
Dalton, H. Maxton, J. Watkins, F. C.
Day, H. Milner, Major J. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon, J. C.
Dobble, W. Montague, F. Welsh, J. C.
Dunn. E. (Rother Valley) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) White, H. Graham
Ede, J. C. Muff, G. Wilkinson, Ellen
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Owen, Major G. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Paling, W. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Parker, J. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Gallacher, W. Parkinson, J. A. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Gardner, B. W. Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Garro Jones, G. M. Potts, J. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Pritt, D. N. Mr. Groves and Mr. Whiteley.