§ Lords Amendment: In line 10, leave out "which shall be called, and is".
§ 12.9 a.m.
§ The PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY to the BOARD OF TRADE (Dr. Burgin)I beg to move, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment."
These Amendments can conveniently, with your permission, Sir, and the permission of the House, be taken together.
§ Dr. BURGINWith the exception of two, they are purely drafting. If the hon. Gentleman desires to discuss the two relating to Clause 14, I shall be prepared to offer an explanation of them. The particular Amendment before the House is purely drafting, as are five others. That leaves only the two to Clause 14 which introduce the word "recklessly". Under that Clause the owner of every cotton mill has to send certain returns to the Spindles Board. As originally drafted, 2371 any person who sent in a return was liable to a penalty if he caused a return to be sent which he knew, or reasonably could be expected to know, was incorrect in any material particular. The change now made by their Lordships is—
§ Mr. KELLYOn a point of Order. Do I understand, Mr. Speaker, that you are giving permission for the whole of these Amendments to be taken at one time instead of being discussed separately?
§ Mr. SPEAKERA great many of the Amendments are of a drafting nature, and the reason why they are being dealt with together by he Parliamentary Secretary is, I take it, to save time.
§ Mr. KELLYI have no desire other than to save time, but I wish to have the opportunity of discussing at least two of these Amendments, and if they are to be put all together, it will be very difficult for me to do that.
§ Mr. SPEAKERThe Amendments will not be put all together. Each Amendment will be put separately. The Minister is explaining them all at the same time for the convenience of the House.
§ Dr. BURGINI was explaining that, with the exception of two of them, these Amendments are purely drafting. With regard to the two first Amendments to Clause 14, they make a slight change in the drafting, and in consequence in the meaning, or tile Bill. Under Clause 14 as drafted it was an offence for the owner of a mill to send in a return which contained an incorrect statement, and it was to be a criminal offence, punishable, if the return was either known to be false or could reasonably be expected to be known to be incorrect. The change which has been made in another place is that, instead of a person being required to be reasonably expected to know a return to be incorrect, which was rather a vague charge to make against an individual, to which several Members of the Committee took exception, the words
knowingly or recklessly makes in any return.an incorrect statement have been inserted: that is to say, with such absence of care as not to care whether what he said was right or wrong. I cannot 2372 imagine anybody taking exception to that, and incidentally these words are identical with weds which this House has already put in another recent Bill, relating to sugar. These are the only two alterations which in any way touch the wording of the Bill. The others are purely consequential and drafting.
§ 12.13 a.m.
§ Mr. RHYS DAVIESI think the hon. Gentleman is right in pointing out that the Amendments on Clause 14 are the ouly Amendments that matter, but he will pardon my telling him that I am not at all sure about the argument which he has put forward as to the insertion of the word "recklessly." The impression that we gain on the face of it is that it will require a man to be a very desperate person before he is caught within the ambit of this Clause if that word remains in it.
§ Mr. SPEAKERI think the hon. Member had better wait until we get to that particular Amendment.
Question, "That this House doth agree with the Lords in the said Amendment," put, and agreed to