HC Deb 31 March 1936 vol 310 cc1839-61

  1. "(1) For the purpose of advising the Spindles Board there shall be a committee (hereafter in this Act referred to as the Advisory Committee ') consisting of six persons appointed by the Board of Trade, and of the members of the Advisory Committee—
    1. (a) three shall be persons appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Federation of Master Cotton Spinners' Associations, Limited;
    2. (b) one shall he a person appearing to the Board of Trade to represent the interests of cotton spinners in Great Britain who are neither members of the said federation nor members of any association which is a member of, or affiliated to, that federation;
    3. (c) one shall be a person appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Joint Committee of Cotton Trade Organisations; and
    4. (d) one shall be a person appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the United Textile Factory Workers' Association.
  2. (2) It shall be the duty of the Spindles Board to consult the Advisory Committee from time to time with respect to the discharge of the functions of the Board.
  3. (3) If at any time the Advisory Committee resolve that an application ought to be made to the Board of Trade for the termination of the purchasing powers of the Spindles Board, the committee shall cause their resolution to be published in the London Gazette and in the Edinburgh Gazette and to he communicated to such bodies appearing to the Board of Trade to represent the interests of cotton spinners in Great Britain as the Board of Trade may direct.
  4. (4) At any meeting of the Advisory Committee three shall be a quorum, and the committee shall have power to act notwithstanding any vacancy among the members thereof; and if at any such meeting the votes are equally divided on any question, the person acting as chairman of the meeting shall have a second or casting vote.
  5. (5) The Spindles Board may place any of their officers or servants at the disposal of the Advisory Committee, on such terms as the Board think fit, and may, subject to the following provisions of this Act, incur on account of the committee such expenses as the Board may determine." — [Mr. Runciman.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

3.55 p.m.

The PRESIDENT of the BOARD of TRADE (Mr. Runciman)

I beg to move, "That the Clause be react a Second time."

While the Bill was passing through Committee, a wide range of subjects was discussed. Upon some of them it is possible for the Government to say that they accept the suggestions that were made, although the form remains to he decided by the Government dreftsmen. One of the most important subjects that we discussed upstairs was the composition of the Advisory Committee, and in that discussion hon. Members opposite, as well as in other parts of the House, where largely concerned. In the Bill originally, the Advisory Committee was a Committee of four. Clause 3 states that the Advisory Committee shall consist. of four persons appointed by the Board of Trade, being persons who appear to the Board of Trade, after consultation with cotton spinners in Great Britain to represent the interests of such cotton spinners. It was represented to the Standing Committee that a wider interpretation of representation was in the interests of the industry as a whole. I did not feel justified in accepting the Amendment which was put forward, and which was purely for the nomination of certain interests, but I took the broader view and considered what were the interests of the industry as a whole.

Among the proposals which were discussed and which we have since had under consideration, was an increase in the number of the Advisory Committee from four to six. We propose, in the new Clause which I am moving, to provide that three members of the Advisory Committee shall be persons appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Federation of Master Cotton Spinners' Associations, one shall be a person appearing to the Board of Trade to represent the interests of cotton spinners who are members neither of the federation nor of any association which is a member of or affiliated to the federation. That provides for the case of cotton spinners who, while not members of the federation, have interests to protect. One person shall also be appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Joint Committee of Cotton Trade Organisations. The object of having a nominee from that organisation was to bring as early as possible into the discussion of these subjects manufacturers and others who are interested in the other stages of the industry.

The Joint Committee of Cotton Trade Organisations has on it representatives not only of employers but of some of the workers' organisations, and it will be open, therefore, under paragraph (c) of the proposed new Clause, to provide for the appointment of a person who will be selected after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Joint Committee. That might provide—I do not know whether it would, because I cannot say what will be the recommendation—for a member of one of the workers' organisations to sit on the Advisory Committee. Finally, one person shall be appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the United Textile Factory Workers' Association. This was done specifically with the object of drawing in one of the representatives of the operatives. We did that, not because we have changed our views regarding the interests which were to be protected on the Advisory Committee, but because we wished to foster the general spirit of cooperation and the efforts which are now being made for the recovery of the industry. That object has been stated to the Committee, and I hope that the House will now be prepared to accept that recommendation.

4.0 p.m.

Mr. CLYNES

Very little change has been made in the Bill during the Committee stage, and I hold a view that there are several other Clauses which if they had been altered to the extent that the Clause now under consideration alters the Bill, the Bill would have been far better than it was when it passed Second Reading. I regret that it will not be possible for us to discuss a number of Amendments on the Paper with a view to their being incorporated in the Bill during the Report stage. As to this new Clause I would ask one or two questions. The new Clause is a substantial improvement. I do not regard it as embodying any very generous concession to the particular interests that I have in mind. It is rather the admission of the right of the United Textile Factory Workers' Association to be kept in touch with the work of the Spindle Board whose decision very seriously concerns them. One omission from the Clause is its failure definitely to describe the capacity and the place of the chairman of this Advisory Committee. Many a committee is worthless for the lack of experts, alert and qualified persons, as either secretaries or chairmen.

There is no secretary referred to in the case of this Advisory Committee. A person is referred to as one who is to preside at meetings, but that is very different from having a chairman proper who would possess the right and initiative in calling together the members of the Advisory Committee and the right to approach the Spindles Board. The Clause does say that the Advisory Committee shall have a person who is to act as chairman of a meeting and that he shall have a second vote or casting vote. But that is not enough, if this body of six persons is to be a live body, with a sense of responsibility and in touch with the Spindles Board. All that the Clause says is: It shall be the duty of the Spindles Board to consult the Advisory Committee from time to time. Correspondingly will it be the duty of the Advisory Committee to consult with the Spindles Board, or are we to understand that always it rests with the Board to decide whether there shall be consultation or not? We ought to have some definite reply on those points.

4.4 p.m.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

I wish to thank the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Board of Trade for this new Clause. I remember that when this question was discussed in Committee the right hon. Gentleman was away, but the Parliamentary Secretary promised that he would consult the right hon. Gentleman and try to meet the views that were then expressed. My own opinion is that this new Clause is a great improvement on the Clause we had before us in Committee, and I take this opportunity of thanking the right hon. Gentleman for having dealt with a difficult point which I mentioned in Committee. I thought the operatives were entitled at least to some representative on this Advisory Committee. The numbers on the committee I do not regard as a matter of importance. If the operatives have a representative there they will be quite as well aware of what is going on with one representative as they would be with two or three.

4.6 p.m.

Mr. PETHERICK

As one of those on this side of the House who always had very great misgivings about the Bill I would like to thank the President of the Board of Trade very much for putting on the Paper a number of Amendments which go some way to meet the views of those who were in opposition to the Bill on this side of the House. I regard this as a very valuable Amendment and a concession which should please, as it has pleased, hon. Members opposite as well as some of us. In the seventeenth century there was an epigram made up by Whigs for Whigs which ended: For Whigs allow no force but argument. Those of us who were opposing the Bill in Committee were not very strong in numbers. The President of the Board of Trade is not only a political descendant of a long line of Whigs but is a lineal descendant who is living up to the ancient traditions which Whigs always hoped were part of their make-up. There are one or two points I wish to raise with regard to the person who is appointed to represent the interests of cotton spinners in Great Britain who are neither members of the Federation (of Master Cotton Spinners' Associations) nor members of any Association which is a member of, or affiliated to, that Federation. The Lancashire Cotton Corporation is not a member of the Federation of Master Cotton Spinners' Associations. It is, however, supporting this Bill. I am not sure whether it is a member of an affiliated association. I hope that the President of the Board of Trade when he comes to appoint a representative will see that as far as possible he will get the right man, and that he is a person to represent those interests who have been in opposition to the Bill. The right hon. Member for Platting (Mr. Clynes) regretted that there was no provision for a secretary of the Advisory Committee, but he will find that under Sub-section (5) of the new Clause the board can lend or put at the disposal of the Advisory Committee various officers. I think it would be wise to put in a provision for the election of a chairman or that the chairman should be appointed by the President of the Board of Trade. I imagine that that will be done in any case. Perhaps these points can be dealt with between now and the time when the Bill reaches another place.

Question, "That the Clause be read a Second time," put, and agreed to.

4.9 p.m.

Mr. A. V. ALEXANDER

I beg to move, in line 3, to leave out "six" and to insert "seven."

I do not want to disturb the praise which has been offered to the President of the Board of Trade for this new Clause, but if it is true, as has been said, that he is the descendant of a long line of Whigs, I hope he is still in the special line of descent and will listen now to a plea which is not altogether outside the usual Whig policy, and that is a plea for consideration of the position of the consumer. We want to extend the number of members of the Advisory Committee in order that we can move a subsequent Amendment which will provide that one shall be appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and representative organisations of consumers. I am sure from the reports I have read that my hon. Friends in Committee made adequate representations as to what is the real character of this Bill. I feel that this process adopted by the Government, of dealing on a corporate basis with industry piecemeal, wants careful watching in the interests of the general community, and that the position of the general consumer should as far as possible be safeguarded. After all, the Bill will set up what is virtually a monopoly, and it is, therefore, of the utmost importance that the general communal aspects should be borne in mind. There was a very grave danger that the Spindles Board would take a short view in their consideration of surplus spindles capacity, and that their actions would tend to raise the cost of production and the selling price. I listened very carefully to the reply of the President of the Board of Trade during Question time to-day to a question on that point. I did not learn from him any reason for believing that the operations of the Spindles Board would not raise the price of the commodity iii the home market. Perhaps in the course of his reply on this Amendment the right hon. Gentleman or the Parliamentary Secretary will tell us on what they base the assump- tion that the Bill is not likely to increase the ultimate price of the cotton goods supplied to the home market.

It has always been part of the economics taught to me that when you restrict the supply to a market you tend to raise the price. The whole object of this Bill is to restrict output by reducing the number of spindles available for production. The inevitable result of such a policy would be to aggravate still further instead of relieving the present position. What we want is a larger consumption in the home as well as the foreign market of this industry. Large sections of the population are not able, with their present level of income, to buy even the necessaries of life, and any tendency unduly to raise the price of cotton goods is going still further to restrict consumption. Speaking for those who are usually recognised as connected with the organised consumers in the country, we feel that it is necessary, as we cannot go back on the general principle adopted in the Second Reading of the Bill, to take whatever steps we can to safeguard the general position of the consumer.

4.13 p.m.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

On a point of Order. Could we discuss this Amendment in conjunction with that which immediately follows, which says that one member of the Advisory Committee "shall be appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and representative organisations of consumers"? Is it not the case that the consumer of whom the right hon. Gentleman speaks would not be the consumer under this Bill? The consumer under the Bill would be the consumer of cotton yarn, and he will have a representative on the Advisory Committee under this Clause. I understand that the right hon. Gentleman is referring to the ultimate consumer of cotton piece goods. It is necessary to make that point quite clear. If we were allowed to discuss the two Amendments together we could ask the right hon. Gentleman to make quite clear what he actually means, and then have a ruling on the question whether the words of the Amendments cover what the right hon. Gentleman means.

Mr. SPEAKER

I understand that the second Amendment in the name of the right hon. Gentleman is consequential on the first, which he has moved. If I am wrong in that assumption I am subject to correction.

Mr. ALEXANDER

That is the case. I addressed myself only to the first Amendment because I realised that if that Amendment was defeated discussion would not be allowed on the second.

Mr. LEVY

When the right hon. Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) speaks of consumers I assume that he has in mind the consuming public, but in this case the consumers are the weavers of yarn. Therefore, I think the right hon. Gentleman is under a misapprehension, for the consumer of the yarn is represented on the Advisory Committee.

Mr. ALEXANDER

You were under no misapprehension at all, Mr. Speaker. The organised consumers, with whom, as the House very well knows, I am connected—

Mr. LEVY

Not in yarn.

Mr. ALEXANDER

It is no use the hon. Member trying to ride off like that. He knows perfectly well that there are 7,500,000 ordinary members of the public organised in the consumers' movement, and they are pressing for this Amendment in a two-fold sense. They are the ultimate users and consumers of the finished product, but, in their organisation as consumers, they also find it necessary to be in the industry, and they are actually weavers, using the product of the spinner in their weaving industry. But that does not really affect the point that we are making, namely, that a body is being set up by Statute which will have complete power over these aspects of the conduct of this section of the cotton industry. The work of the Spindles Board is now to be followed by the work of this Advisory Committee. We cannot hope to get an amendment of the constitution of the Spindles Board by putting a consumer on it, but surely it ought to be possible to get an expression, through the Advisory Committee, of the views of the users of the ultimate product as well as of the product of the spinning section of the industry—because it affects the whole industry—in order that the public should not be exploited.

Can the right hon. Gentleman say why the ordinary general public who buy the finished product are not affected? If he can, I will give way, but I have yet to learn that the industry at any stage, whether manufacturing, processing, finishing or distribution, does not ultimately affect the price to the last consumer of the goods. We think it essential, therefore, that the consumer in the communal sense should be represented on the Advisory Committee. I am not sure what the right hon. Gentleman's reply will be, but I have heard it said that the Board of Trade will look after this matter. I used to think that that was so, but, with the fiscal revolution that has taken place, I can no longer rely to quite the same extent that I used to rely upon the Board of Trade. That is not because I blame the Board of Trade, but because of the change in legislation. If the President of the Board of Trade is going to proceed to deal piecemeal, industry by industry, with giving a statutory corporate control which is practically a monopoly, we must insist at every stage that the community shall be properly protected.

Mr. SPEAKER

With regard to the question put to me by the hon. Member for South Bradford (Mr. Holdsworth) as to whether these two Amendments can be discussed together, I should say that they certainly can.

4.19 p.m.

Mr. RUNCIMAN

When the right hon. Gentleman speaks on behalf of the cooperative movement, he always does so with force and knowledge, but I am afraid he has not been very intimately connected with the discussions on this Bill upstairs. If he had been, he would have observed that very early in the discussions we found ourselves in the position of trying to forecast, as nearly as one could forecast, what was likely to happen if the Bill became law. One thing that was clear at the outset, and was never, I think, seriously challenged, was that there was no attempt to restrict output. There is, of course, an attempt to regulate the industry, and one of the effects of regulating the industry will be, we hope, that, instead of having a fluctuating market, very often affected by sudden outbursts of industrial energy, or perhaps even of desperation on the part of some individuals, there will be a fairly level supply of orders for a fairly level number of spindles, and, if that is attained, we shall be in the happy position of having by regulation achieved one of the objects which the Bill has in view. I see no reason why that should not be attained.

When the right hon. Gentleman speaks of the consumer, I know he is thinking of the ultimate consumer, but, before he reaches that stage, I hope he will not overlook the other classes of consumers concerned—the weavers, doublers and so on, right down to the finishers. They are all consumers, and, so far as this Clause can provide, they are going to be represented on the Advisory Committee. The right hon. Gentleman accepts that as a good principle with regard to the consumers who are direct consumers of yarn. As regards the ultimate consumer, I believe the general effect of the policy will be in conformity with what has actually happened during the last four or five years. There has been no serious rise in the cost of commodities, and, as we have pursued our policy, we have been in the happy position of knowing that the cost of living has remained pretty much where it was even so much as four or five years ago.

Mr. ALEXANDER

There has been a rise of four or five points.

Mr. RUNCIMAN

There has been a rise recently, but that was commensurate with other rises in remuneration and so on.

We cannot accept the Amendment. As the right hon. Gentleman knows, it would be of a different nature from the other provisions of the proposed new Clause, in which we are dealing with the industrial consumer. If we were to attempt to deal with the matter as it affects the ultimate consumer, it would lead to confusion. It would not be a very easy matter to ascertain exactly what was the necessity for this change, and I doubt whether anything would be gained by the country as a whole if the right hon. Gentleman's suggestion were carried out. We have made every effort in the Bill and throughout the Committee stage to avoid any change that would be likely to embarrass those engaged in any branch of the industry. The right hon. Gentleman made some reference to what the future might hold. I cannot pretend to prophesy, but I can say that, unless there is to be some regulation such as is provided for here, it will be impossible for us to build up the reorganisation of other sections of the industry which we have in view.

4.25 p.m.

Mr. RHYS DAVIES

I intervene because the right hon. Gentleman has apparently forgotten the point, to which I think I shall be entitled to refer now, which was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Platting (Mr. Clynes) about the Chairman of the Advisory Committee. Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman may have an opportunity of replying later on that point, which we thought was rather an important one. In the meantime I desire to support my right hon. Friend's plea for an increase in the number of members of the Advisory Committee on the lines he suggests. I was present upstairs when we discussed the number of members that should be on the Advisory Committee. Happily we had not then to deal with the President of the Board of Trade himself, but with his deputy, who, as a rules is very much more generous than his chief. Consequently we now have at least a representative of trade union organisations on the Committee. The right hon. Gentleman cannot get away with the idea that the Amendment which my right hon. Friend moved frankly on behalf of the co-operative movement is not justified. In Committee upstairs I listened to the arguments on this issue over and over again, and I represent a seat in Lancashire, I think I know Lancashire fairly well, and it would seem to me to be a very strange world if the price of the finished article is not increased as a consequence of the passing of this Measure. Indeed, while it is not said in so many words, I should imagine that, although the right hon. Gentleman does not believe it will happen, the manufacturers in Lancashire would on the other hand feel very disappointed if it did not happen, because what they have been seeking for a long time is an increase in the price of the finished article. If I had been in the position of my right hon. Friend, I would have quoted the co-operative movement without arty ado, because they are the only organised consumers who conduct their business without making a profit out of their fellows.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

Oh!

Mr. DAVIES

Evidently the hon. Member does not belong to the co-operative movement—

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

That is exactly why I know; I am a member of it.

Mr. DAVIES

Then I am afraid he is not an intelligent member of it. Obviously he has not read the rules of his co-operative society, and in that connection I ought to tell him that he not the only one who has not. There is a point in favour of this principle being embodied in the Bill. The question has been raised in Parliament for years of the tremendous gulf that exists between the price of an article sold wholesale and that of the same article sold retail. We have always been told that the distributive workers are responsible for that gulf. I am not going to argue that with the right hon. Gentleman to-day, because we have had so many arguments that have never reached a conclusion, but we shall register our views on this matter in the Division Lobby. This is the first time that the Government in this country have embarked upon this industrial policy, and, while the manufacturers and others are to be represented on the Advisory Committee, we think that the consumer should be represented there as well. The right hon. Gentleman has given the whole case away by acceding to our request that the trade unions should be represented, for the argument of himself and his deputy up to the very last moment was that this Bill had nothing whatever to do with trade union organisation. If they look up their words they will find how many of them they have eaten in this proposed new Clause. I repeat that I wish the right hon. Gentleman would be good enough to answer the specific question put to him by my right hon. Friend the Member for Platting as to the chairman of the Advisory Committee and his duties. As the right hon. Gentleman will know better than I do, a committee of any kind is of very little use unless the chairman is properly appointed, unless his duties are specified, and unless he has the initiative to lead his committee to do something.

4.30 p.m.

Mr. H. G. WILLIAMS

I am somewhat attracted by the Amendment, though I wish the right hon. Gentleman had been a little more precise, because there might be some difficulty in interpretation if it is carried in its present form. I am a little perturbed because, as the hon. Member for Westhoughton (Mr. Rhys Davies) has said, the object of the Amendment is to put a representative of the Co-operative Society on the Committee.

Mr. ALEXANDER

If I had intended that I should have moved it specifically.

Mr. WILLIAMS

When the hon. Member for Westhoughton says the right hon. Gentleman has moved this frankly in the interest of the Co-operative movement—

Mr. DAVIES

What I said was that, if I had been moving the Amendment, that is what it would have contained.

Mr. WILLIAMS

If the hon. Member will consult the OFFICIAL REPORT tomorrow, he will find that I was correct in my interpretation, because I do not regard the Co-operative movement in the form in which it will come in this Committee as representative in any sense of the consumers. It is not the rank and file of the members who will be represented but people associated with the directorate—in other words a body of shopkeepers. I do not admit that the directors of a Co-operative society enjoy any special kind of sanctity. They are no more virtuous than the directors of any other trade organisation. If we are going to have representatives of consumers, I think I am a better representative of them than the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) because I represent far more than he does—some 60 per cent. more. Mine is a most important consuming constituency.

On several occasions in Committee I definitely raised the issue where the ultimate consumer came in. I think there are very grave dangers in a policy of monopoly. I think the change in the constitution of the Advisory Committee is good up to a point, but it is only adding more people of the group who hope to share in the boodle if there is any, because all these people who are being put on are people who hope to make something but of it, and we want some protection for the consuming interest. The President of the Board of Trade believes that this reorganisation will result in more economical production. We axe always told that. We were told that in regard to the Marketing Board. Only the other day we had the extraordinary spectacle of a man being fined £50 for growing too many potatoes and next day the duty being taken off because there were not enough potatoes. I am distrustful of this new argument, which comes strangely from people who in the past called themselves Liberals. If it had come from some of the old—fashioned Tories, there might have been some case for it, but it is amazing that it should come from Liberals, who preach the doctrine of freedom.

This Bill does not represent freedom but the exact reverse. I think we ought to have someone on this Advisory Committee who will think in the terms of the people who are going to buy cotton goods, because the interest of all those who are on it is in the manufacture, and, if they do not wreck their sales by pushing the price too high, the higher the price the better pleased will be all the members of the Advisory Committee. The additions to the committee do not make it better but worse from that point of view, because you are going to have not only the masters but the men and, when they have their wage disputes, they will say, "We have this semi-monopoly and we can exploit the consumer." I think the right hon. Gentleman opposite has rendered a very considerable service by drawing attention to what I regard as a fundamental issue in the Bill. For the first time in a manufacturing industry we are attempting to set up a semi-statutory monopoly. The worst features of the Bill have vanished, but we ought to have some check of the kind suggested, and I hope the President of the Board of Trade will view the situation and see whether he cannot give some undertaking that before the Bill finally becomes an Act some change will be made to give the consumer the protection that is completely denied in the Bill as it stands.

4.36 p.m.

Mr. RADFORD

I am very surprised to hear my hon. Friend the Member for South Croydon (Mr. H. G. Williams) agreeing with the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander). The bulk of our cotton manufactures are exported, the greater part of them to the East, and if the Government were to accept this Amendment they would have to arrange for some Asiatic gentleman to come over here and become a. member of the Advisory Committee. The right hon. Gentleman opposite asked how the Bill could operate and not cause an increase in price. The answer is simple. It is not proposed that the output of yarn should be cut down, but it is suggested that it should be concentrated in fewer hands and the saving in overhead expenses will more than cover the 1⅙d. per spindle levy. I am convinced that the fears about raising prices are absolutely groundless. I should think the whole country would welcome some rise in price when it realised that the bulk of the cotton spinning companies are not making but losing money, and neither the interests of owners nor of operatives are served by a continuance of those conditions.

4.37 p.m.

Mr. BARNES

I should be content if we could establish the principle of consumers' representation by this Amendment, leaving to a later date the dispute as to who actually represents the consumers. The President of the Board of Trade said there was no fear of restriction of output, and therefore no fear of a consequential rise in price. He added that the object of the Bill was to get a level production. I fail to see how you can get a level production unless you restrict production at some given point. The whole purpose of the Bill is to control the productive output of this section of industry, and so a consequential rise in prices is inevitable in view of the profit motive which will be running through the Bill. If we do not get some such Amendment as this, the whole of the interests are directly production interests, and I do not see how the Board of Trade can function for the public. If the Board of Trade was independent in its functions under the Bill there would be something to be said for it representing the public interest, but in the composition of the Spindles Board the Board of Trade has surrendered its independent position in so far that the chairman and members of the board are appointed after consultation with persons appearing to the Board of Trade to represent the interests of cotton spinners. So the Board of Trade must consult the interests primarily concerned with the Bill.

When we come to this new Clause, the Board of Trade again is limited to selecting persons from definite organisations and bodies. It appears to be inevitable that the Chairman will come from the three persons appointed after consultation with the Federation of Master Cotton Spinners' Associations, because that body will have three out of the six persons appointed. If the Amendment does not accomplish adequately the point that we wish to gain, I suggest that the President of the Board of Trade should endeavour to meet the public interest involved in the Amendment. It is not desirable that this type of statutory control of industry should be developed. Many people take the view that it would be disastrous and dangerous to our trade in the long run, especially if the sectional interests are predominant in this type of organisation.

Although the danger may be obscured and held in arrest for a short period, in the long run this static type of industrial organisation is bound to lead to a very dangerous position in a country like ours, dependent as it is on such a large overseas trade for its imported raw material and food supplies. Therefore the functions of the Advisory Committee must ostensibly be to represent some kind of test, some kind of advice as far as the operations of the Spindles Board are concerned on the other interests that are affected. I am not at all influenced by the comment that in this case the consumer is the weaver. Nothing of the kind. The weaver in this case is the user and not the consumer of the commodity in the final result. What we are pressing upon the right hon. Gentleman is the very vital principle that, if this type of organisation is going to be created, the public should be assured that there is a large public purpose checking the operations of selfish interests. I ask the right hon. Gentleman again to consider his decision and, if the Amendment is not satisfactory, to submit a more practical one.

4.43 p.m.

Mr. PETHERICK

I find myself in unaccustomed agreement so far as this Bill is concerned with the hon. Member for Rusholme (Mr. Radford) Hon. Members opposite hold up their hands in holy horror at the idea that the Bill may lead to an increase in price. The average trade unionist in the cotton industry would welcome a rise in price, because you cannot go on for ever stabilising prices in the industry at the present extremely low level without causing ruin to all concerned. I have never liked the Bill because of the principle involved in it, but if it will do something to raise prices, amongst other things, I shall feel that it will, at any rate, have partially justified itself. The right hon. Gentleman who moved the Amendment cannot have realised its full implications. It means that representatives of the consumers, presumably the ultimate consumers, will be placed on the Advisory Committee. The duties of the Advisory Committee are to advise the Spindles Board as to what spindles should be bought up, and where, and the price that shall be given for them. If a consumer is to be placed on the committee to prevent the price rising, his sole duty apparently will be to obstruct. All he will have to try to do is to see that no spindles are bought and scrapped in case there should be a rise in price. In that event the right hon. Gentleman is right in resisting the Amendment.

4.45 p.m.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

The House ought to address itself in a practical way to the provisions of the Bill. We are not in this case discussing a finished product. I am in favour of the representation of consumers where you are dealing with a finished product, but this is a raw material and the consumer in this case would be the purchaser of the raw material. I do not agree with the President of the Board of Trade, who said in reply to a question that there will be no rise in price. I think there will be a rise in price, but I believe it is computed that on a 36 count of yarn, the incidence of this levy will be.045 per lb. and, in any case, if it went up to 10 per cent. it would make no appreciable difference per yard of the finished product.

Those who are connected with the textile trade find that there is no difficulty as to watching the consumers' interest, in regard to the purchase of yarn. Those who are spinning can be certain that they will never make too large a profit so long as there are good Lancashire and Yorkshire business men concerned in the buying of yarn. I should like to see a committee set up to give protection against the profits which are made in the retail trace by, among others, the Co-operative societies. That is where the difficulty exists. It is not the manufacturer who is making the profit to-day. The man who is manufacturing the product is the man with a complaint about the profits which are often made in the retail branch. In this case the consumer to whom the Bill relates is represented on the Advisory Committee. It is provided in paragraph (c) of the new Clause that one shall be a person appointed after consultation between the Board of Trade and the Joint Committee of Cotton Trade Organisations. That person could be a consumer of cotton yarn. In any case, you have three representatives of the spinners. In this particular instance you have one who would, I presume, be a consumer of cotton yarn. Then the representative of the trade unions would be able to listen to all that was going on and if he thought that anything was being done which tended to increase the price, he, presumably, would express his view on that subject. If I thought this was a practical Amendment I would support it but, as I say, the raw material is a very different matter from the finished product.

Mr. ALEXANDER

The hon. Member appears to be trying to give us a little elementary instruction, but he overlooks the fact that the ordinary consumers of whom I was speaking are actually working for the weaving mills in England and Scotland. We know exactly what the position is in this trade. They also represent the ultimate consumer.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

I know that the Co-operative societies are users of cotton yarn and also of worsted yarn and shoddy. I think I know their interest in the textile trade, but they have always sufficient power, because of the competition within the industry, to get adequate protection. I have been against the principle of the Bill from the beginning, but I must admit that when you have done away with the spindles it is not as if you were leaving the industry without sufficient spindles to provide all the yarn that could be demanded. If you were going to have a scarcity of machinery, there would be something in the right hon. Gentleman's point. As it is, I think it is an impracticable Amendment and would not meet the case, whereas the President of the Board of Trade in the proposed new Clause has to a large extent met our complaint.

4.51 p.m.

Major PROCTER

It seems to me that the underlying idea of the Amendment is to prevent the abuse of the monopoly position which is being created under the Bill, but the form of words chosen for the Amendment cannot, I think, carry out the underlying idea. No representative of a consumers' organisation would have the opportunity, the ability or the power to do anything on this Advisory Committee to cause either a rise or fall in price or to prevent the abuse of the monopoly which may be created by the setting up, for the first time, of a closed system in the cotton trade. This advisory body will be concerned with what spindles are to be taken out of the market and scrapped or re-sold. If the combines put up the price, how can any consumers' representative on that body do anything to prevent it, except to say, "Let us refrain from buying up any more spindles; let them all run full time"? Even then, this Bill does not control in any way the running of a three-shift system. Therefore, to carry out this proposal would simply he to increase the number of the committee without having any effect whatever.

It has been pointed out by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander) that the effect of this proposal will be to raise prices. I have opposed the Bill all through, not on the ground that it may increase prices, but on the ground that there may be an uncontrolled increase of prices, which is a different matter. What the cotton trade needs more than anything else is an increase in the price of yarn. I say with all due deference to the right hon. Gentleman opposite that what we see in the cotton trade at present is the carrying out of one of the great Socialistic principles, namely, the running of industry for use and not for profit. The trouble is that because there are no profits in the trade we cannot pay a decent wage to the cotton operatives.

What we want to prevent is uncontrolled price-raising, that is to say, the weavers and spinners all getting together in a sort of Adullam's Cave and saying to each other: "We have the position in our own hands; let us force up prices to such an extent that we can control the market and nobody else can come into the industry henceforth without paying ransom." What we are doing now is making a closed system, but I believe that if the President of the Board of Trade could keep a watchful eye on these matters and find some way of preventing the abuse of the monopoly, we could dispense with the consumers' representative on this body. I would, however, like the right hon. Gentleman to indicate how, in the absence of a person to look after the consumers' interest, he is going to prevent abuse. Will any power be given to the chairman or to anybody else to consult with him, so as to see that this monopoly is not abused in any way?

4.56 p.m.

Mr. ROWSON

I wish I could believe that the Bill was for the purpose of reorganising the industry, either in a monopolistic or in any other way. The trouble is that when we have passed the Bill we shall leave the industry exactly as it was before, and the old system of laissez faire will continue. In regard to paragraphs (b) and (c) of the new Clause I wish to put two questions. I wish to ask the President of the Board of Trade whether he can guarantee that the representative mentioned in paragraph (b) is to be one of those engaged in using yarn for manufacturing purposes. If such a representative were appointed, it would, to a certain extent, meet the point raised by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Hillsborough (Mr. Alexander). On paragraph (c) I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is his intention, after consulting the Joint Committee of Cotton Trade Organisations to see that the person appointed shall be a member of the cotton operatives' trade union or one or other of the—

Mr. SPEAKER

The hon. Member would not be in order in going into that question on this Amendment.

Mr. ROWSON

If it is out of order, Mr. Speaker, I shall not pursue it, but I thought as the new Clause had been moved and the Amendment to it was under discussion, I could refer to it.

Question put, "That the word 'six' stand part of the proposed Clause."

The House divided: Ayes, 237; Noes, 122.

Division No. 125.] AYES. [3.45 p.m.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Denville, Alfred Kerr, J. G. (Scottish Universities)
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Despencer-Robertson, Major J. A. F. Kirkpatrick, W. M.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Dodd, J. S. Lamb, Sir J. Q.
Albery, I. J. Donner, P. W. Lambert, Rt. Hon. G.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Latham, Sir P.
Anderson, sir A. Garrett (C. of Ldn.) Drewe, C. Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.)
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) Leckie, J. A.
Apsley, Lord Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Leech, Dr. J. W.
Aske, Sir R. W. Dugdale, Major T. L. Lees-Jones, J.
Assheton, R. Duggan, H. J. Leighton, Major B. E. P.
Astor, Visc'tess (Plymouth, Sutton) Duncan, J. A. L. Levy, T.
Astor, Hon. W. W. (Fulham, E.) Dunglass, Lord Lewis, O.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Dunne, P. R. R. Liddall, W. S.
Balniel, Lord Eckersley, P. T. Liewellin, Lieut.-Col. J. J.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Edmondson, Major Sir J. Lloyd, G. W.
Baxter, A. Beverley Ellis, Sir G. Loder, Captain Hon. J. de V.
Beauchamp, Sir B. C. Eimley, Viscount Lovat-Fraser, J. A.
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Emery, J. F. Lumley, Capt. L. R.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Emmott, C. E. G. C. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield)
Bernays, R. H. Emrys-Evans, P. V. MacAndrew, Lt.-Col. Sir C. G.
Birchall, Sir J. D. Entwistle, C. F. M'Connell, Sir J.
Blair, Sir R. Errington, E. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross)
Blindell, Sir J. Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Macdonald, Capt. p. (Isle of Wight)
Bossom, A. C. Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) McEwen, Capt. H. J. F.
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Everard, W. L. McKle, J. H.
Boyce, H. Leslie Findlay, Sir E. Maclay, Hon. J. P.
Brass, Sir W. Fox, Sir G. W. G. Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Fraser, Capt. Sir I. Magnay, T.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Furness, S. N. Makins, Brig.-Gen. E.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Fyfe, D. P. M. Manningham-Buller, Sir M.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Ganzoni, Sir J. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.
Brown, Brlg.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Markham, S. F.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Gledhill, G. Maxwell, S. A.
Bull, B. B. Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.
Bullock, Capt. M. Goldle, N. B. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Goodman, Col. A. W. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.)
Butler, R. A. Gower, Sir R. V. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)
Caine, G. R. Hall- Graham Captain A. C. (Wirral) Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)
Campbell, Sir E. T. Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Morgan, R. H.
Cartland, J. R. H. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)
Cary, R. A. Gridley, Sir A. B. Munro, P. M.
Cautley, Sir H. S. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Grimston, R. V. Nicolson, Hon. H. G.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor) Ormsby-Gore, Rt. Hon. W. G.
Chapman, A. (Rutherglen) Gunston, Capt. D, W. Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Christie, J. A. Guy, J. C. M. Owen, Major G.
Churchill, Rt. Hon. Winston S. Hacking, Rt. Hon. D. H. Palmer, G. E. H.
Cobb, Sir C. S. Hamilton, Sir G. C. Patrick, C. M.
Colfox, Major W. P. Hanbury, Sir C. Petherick, M.
Colman, N. C. D. Hannah, I. C. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Colville, Lt.-Col. D. J. Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Pilkington, R.
Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Hartington, Marquess of Pownall, Sir A. Assheton
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Harvey, G. Proctor, Major H. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Dufff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Hepworth, J. Radford, E. A.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Ramsden, Sir E.
Courtauld, Major J. S. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Rathbone, Eleanor (English Unlv's)
Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Holdsworth, H. Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Craddock, Sir R. H. Holmes, J. S. Remer, J. R.
Cranborne, Viscount Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool)
Critchley, A. Hopkinson, A. Ropner, Colonel L.
Crooke, J. S. Horsbrugh, Florence Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Howitt, Dr. A. B. Rowlands, G.
Cross, R. H. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Crossley, A. C. Hudson, R. S. (Southport) Runciman. Rt. Hon. W.
Crowder, J. F. E. Hulbert, N. S. Russell, A. West (Tynemouth)
Culverwell, C. T. Hunter, T. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Davies, Major G. F. (Yeovil) Hurd, Sir P. A. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Davison, Sir W. H. Jackson, Sir H. Salmon, Sir I.
De Chair, S. S. Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
De la Bère, R. Jones, L. (Swansea, W.) Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney)>
Denman, Hon. R. D. Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Sandys, E. D. Sutcllffe, H. Wayland, Sir W. A.
Savery, Servington Taylor, C. S. (Eastbourne) Wells, S. R.
Scott, Lord William Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby) Williams, C (Torquay)
Shakespeare. G. H. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford) Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Shepperson, Sir E. W. Touche, G. C. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Shute, Colonel Sir J. J. Train, Sir J. Wilson, Lt. Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Smith, L. W. (Hallam) Tree, A. R. L. F. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Somerville, A. A. (Windsor) Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C. Wise, A. R.
Southby, Comdr. A. R. J. Turton, R. H. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Spender-Clay, Lt.-CI. Rt. Hn. H. H. Wakefield, W. W. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fyide) Wallace, Captain Euan Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd) Ward, liene (Wallsend)
Storey, S. Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S. TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Strickland. Captain W. F. Warrender, Sir V. Sir George Penny and Lieut.-
Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn) Waterhouse, Captain C. Colonel Sir A, Lambert Ward.
NOES.
Adams, D. (consett) Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Price, M. P.
Adamson, W. M. Hardle, G. D. Pritt, D. N.
Alexander. Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Harris, Sir P. A. Quibell, J. D.
Ammon, C. G. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Richards, R. (Wrexham)
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Holland, A. Ritson. J.
Attlee. Rt. Hon. C. R. Hollins, A. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Banfield, J. W. Hopkin, D. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Barnes. A. J. Jagger, J. Rowson, G.
Barr, J. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Seely, Sir H. M.
Batey, J. Johnston, Rt. Hon. T. Sexton, T. M.
Benson, G. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Shinwell, E.
Bevan, A. Kelly, W. T. Short, A.
Bromfield, W. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Silverman, S. S.
Brooke, W. Kirby, B. V. Simpson, F. B.
Buchanan, G. Kirkwood, D. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Burke. W. A. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Cassells, T. Lathan, G. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Charleton, H. C. Lawson, J. J. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Chater, D. Leach, W. Stephen, C.
Cluse, W. S. Leonard, W. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. Leslie, J. R. Strauss, G. R. (Lambeth, N.)
Cocks. F. S. Logan, D. G. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Cove, W. G. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Thorne, W.
Daggar, G. McGhee, H. G. Thurtie, E.
Dalton, H. McGovern, J. Tinker, J. J.
Davles, R. J. (Westhoughton) Maclean, N. Viant, S. P.
Davles, S. O. (Merthyr) MacMlllan, M. (Western Isles) Walker, J.
Day, H. MacNeill, Weir, L. Watkins, F. C.
Dobble, W. Mainwaring, W. H. Watson, W. McL.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Mander, G. le M. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Ede, J. C. Marklew, E. Westwood, J.
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Marshall, F. White, H. Graham
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Mathers, G. Wilkinson, Ellen
Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. Maxton, J. Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
Foot, D. M. Milner, Major J. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Gallacher, W. Montague, F. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Gardner, B. W. Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.) Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Muff, G. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Naylor, T. E. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Green, W. H. (Deptford) Parker, H. J. H.
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A Pethick-Lawrence, F. W. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Potts, J. Mr. Whiteley and Mr. Groves.
Division No. 126.] AYES. [4.58 p.m.
Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke Evans, Capt. A. (Cardiff, S.) Mitchell, Sir W. Lane (Streatham)
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Everard, W. L. Moreing, A. C.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Fildes, Sir H. Morgan, R. H.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Findlay, Sir E. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)
Albery, I. J. Foot, D. M. Morrison, W S. (Cirencester)
Alexander, Brig.-Gen. Sir W. Fox, Sir G. W. G. Muirhead, Lt.-Col. A. J.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Fraser, Capt. Sir I. Munro, P.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. Fremantle, Sir F. E. Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H.
Aske, Sir R. W. Furness, S. N. Nicolson, Hon. H. G.
Assheton, R. Ganzoni, Sir J. Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Astor, Visc'tess (Plymouth, Sutton) Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Owen, Major G.
Balniel, Lord Gledhill, G. Patrick, C. M.
Barclay-Harvey, C. M. Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Peake, O.
Baxter, A. Beverley Goodman, Col. A. W. Penny, Sir G.
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Grattan-Doyle, Sir N Petherick, M.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Beit, Sir A. L. Gridley, Sir A. B. Pownall, Sir A. Assheton
Bernays, R. H. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Procter, Major H. A.
Birchall. Sir J. D. Grimston, R. V. Radford, E. A.
Blair, Sir R. Guest, Hon. I. (Brecon and Radnor) Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Blindell, Sir J. Gunston, Capt. D. W. Ramsden, Sir E.
Bossom, A. C. Guy, J. C. M. Reed, A. C. (Exeter)
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Hamilton, Sir G. C. Roid, W. Allan (Derby)
Boyce, H. Leslie Hanbury, Sir C. Remer, J. R.
Braithwalte, Major A. N. Hannah, I. C. Roberts, W (Cumberland, N.)
Brass, Sir W. Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Robinson, J R. (Blackpool)
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Hartington, Marquess of Ropner, Colonel L.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Harvey, G. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Rowlands, G.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Hepworth, J. Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Bull, B. B. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Runciman, Rt. Hon. W.
Bullock, Capt. M. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Russell, A. West (Tynemouth)
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Holdsworth, H. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Campbell, Sir E. T. Holmes, J. S. Russell, S. H. M. (Darwen)
Cartland, J. R. H. Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
Cary, R. A. Horsbrugh, Florence Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney)
Cautley, Sir H. S. Howitt, Dr. A. B. Sandys, E. D.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Scott, Lord William
Cazalet, Capt. V. A. (Chippenham) Hudson, R. S. (Southport) Seely, Sir H. M.
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Hume, Sir G. H. Shakespeare, G. H.
Chapman, Sir S. (Edinburgh, S.) Hurd, Sir P. A. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Christie, J. A. Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Clarke. F. E. Jones, L. (Swansea, W.) Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.
Clarry, Sir R. G. Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Clydesdale, Marquess of Kerr, H. W. (Oldnam) Smith, Bracewell (Dulwich)
Cobb, Sir C. S. Kerr, J. G. (Scottish Universities) Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Colfox, Major W. P. Kirkpatrick, W. M. Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Colville, Lt.-Col. D. J. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk, N.) Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. Southby, Comdr. A. R. J.
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Latham, Sir P. Spender-Clay, Lt.-Cl. Rt. Hn. H. H.
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fylde)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Leckie, J. A. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Courthope, Col. Sir G. L. Leech, Dr. J. W. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Craddock, Sir R. H. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Strickland, Captain W. F.
Critchley, A. Levy, T. Stuart, Hon. J. (Moray and Nairn)
Cross, R. H. Lewis, O. Sueter, Rear-Admiral Sir M. F.
Crossley, A. C. Liddall, W. S. Sutcliffe, H.
Crowder, J. F. E. Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Tasker, Sir R. I.
Culverwell, C. T. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Thomas, Rt. Hon. J. H. (Derby)
Davidson, Rt. Hon. Sir J. C. C. MacAndrew, Lt.-Col. Sir C. G. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Davison, Sir W. H. M'Connell, Sir J. Touche, G. C.
De Chair, S. S. McCorquodale, M. S. Tree, A. R. L. F.
De la Bère, R. MacDonald, Rt. Hn. J. R. (Scot. U.) Turton, R. H.
Denman, Hon. R. D. MacDonald, Rt. Hon. M. (Ross) Wakefield. W. W.
Denville, Alfred Macdonald, Capt. P. (Isle of Wight) Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull)
Dodd, J. S. McEwen, Capt. H. J. F. Ward, Irene (Wallsend)
Donner, P. W. McKle, J. H. Wardlaw-Milne, Sir J. S.
Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Maclay, Hon. J. P. Warrender, Sir V.
Drewe, C. Macnamara, Capt. J. R. J. Waterhouse, Captain C.
Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) Magnay, T. Wedderburn, H. J. S.
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) Makins, Brig.-Gen. E. Wells, S. R.
Dugdale, Major T. L. Manningham-Buller, Sir M. White, H. Graham
Duncan, J. A. L. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, S.)
Dunglass, Lord Markham, S. F. Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G.
Elliston, G. S. Maxwell, S. A. Womersley, Sir W. J.
Elmley, Viscount Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley
Emery, J. F. Meller, Sir R. J. (Mitcham) Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Emmott, C. E. G. C. Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES —
Errington, E. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest) Major George Davies and Lieut.-
Colonel Llewellin.
NOES.
Adams, D. (Consett) Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Quibell, J. D.
Adamson, W. M. Holland, A. Rathbone, Eleanor (English Univ's.)
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Hollins, A. Riley, B.
Ammon, C. G. Hopkin, D. Ritson, J.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Jagger, J. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Banfied, J. W. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Rowson, G.
Barnes, A. J. Kelly, W. T. Sanders, W. S.
Barr, J. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Sexton, T. M.
Batey, J. Kirby, B. V. Shinwell, E.
Benson, G. Kirkwood, D. Short, A.
Bevan, A, Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Silverman, S. S.
Bromfield, W. Lathan, G. Simpson, F. B.
Brooke, W. Leach, W. Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe)
Buchanan, G. Lee, F. Smith, E. (Stoke)
Burke, W. A. Leonard, W. Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly)
Cape, T. Leslie, J. R. Smith, T. (Normanton)
Casseils, T. Logan, D. G. Sorensen, R. W.
Chater, D. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Stephen, C.
Cluse, W. S. McGhee, H. G. Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng)
Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. McGovern, J. Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth)
Cocks, F. S. MacLaren, A. Thorne, W.
Cove, W. G. Maclean, N. Thurtle, E.
Daggar, G. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles) Tinker, J. J.
Dalton, H. MacNeill, Weir, L. Viant, S. P.
Davies R. J. (Westhoughton) Mainwaring, W. H. Walker, J.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Marklew, E. Watson, W. McL.
Day, H. Marshall, F. Wedgwood, Rt. Hon. J. C.
Dobbie, W. Maxton, J. Westwood, J.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) Milner, Major J. Whiteley, W.
Ede, J. C. Montague, F. Wilkinson, Ellen
Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) Morrison, R. C, (Tottenham, N.) Williams, D. (Swansea, E.)
Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Muff, G. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Frankel, D. Naylor, T. E. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Gallacher, W. Oliver, G. H. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Gardner, B. W. Paling, W. Windsor, W. (Hull, C.)
Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Parker, H. J. H. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Griffiths, G. A. (Hemsworth) Parkinson, J. A. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Groves, T. E. Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Potts, J. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Hardle, G. D. Price, M. P. Mr. Mathers and Mr. Charleton.
Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Pritt, D. N.

Clause added to the Bill.