HC Deb 31 March 1936 vol 310 cc1877-91

6.5 p.m.

Mr. RUNCIMAN

I beg to move, in page 2, line 34, to leave out "assessable cotton mills," and to insert "cotton mills in Great Britain."

This is the fourth series of drafting Amendments which are consequent upon the dropping of Clause 6. When we come to Clause 5 I shall move, in page 5, line 8, after "mill," to insert "in Great Britain." There are three other Amendments of a somewhat similar nature. These are purely drafting Amendments.

Amendment agreed to.

Further Amendment made: In page 2, line 39, leave out "assessable cotton mills," and insert "cotton mills in Great Britain."—[Mr. Rnnciman.]

6.8 p.m.

Major PROCTER

I beg to move, in page 3, line 17, at the end, to insert: Provided further that the board shall not permit any machinery disposed of by them under this Section to be used again for the purpose of spinning cotton yarn unless they have satisfied themselves that the said machinery was not manufactured prior to the first day of January, nineteen hundred. I believe that unless such an Amendment is accepted, the position will arise in which the Spindles Board will acquire second-hand, old-fashioned machinery, keep it for some length of time and then sell it to those in the industry who need spindles. I am one of those who believe that if the Lancashire spinning industry is to compete with other countries; if we are to regain the premier position in the world as a cotton exporting nation, we should have the most modern and up-to-date machinery. It is a lamentable fact that much of the machinery in the Lancashire cotton mills dates back to 1875. A great deal of it is obsolete, but because it is of British manufacture, it is robust and sound in construction, and has been kept in operation for a far longer period than it should.

Other nations came into the industry at a later period; they have utilised later inventions, and undoubtedly our competitors have in their mills the most up-to-date plant. Against modern machinery Lancashire is trying to compete with machinery much of which goes back to 1875. It is as foolish as if we tried to fight a war in which the other side were armed with weapons of precision and we with blunderbusses. America and Japan have put in new ring spindles, and if this Bill contained any provision whereby the available money would be utilised by the trade to re-equip Lancashire mills with modern machinery, it would have my heartiest support.

Furthermore, my Amendment would enable the Government to do something towards encouraging the introduction of modern machinery. If the Bill is not amended in the direction I have indicated, it will be found that the big combines, having by their price-cutting policy made derelict many mills in Lancashire, will try to expand and re-equip their mills with the cheapest machinery which they have taken from their despoiled competitors. The result will be that for four or five years, instead of buying new machinery and giving employment to the engineers, these spinners will go to the Spindles Board and purchase their machinery from it. What will happen in practice will be that the mills will sell some of their derelict, old-fashioned machinery to the Spindles Board, and other mills will buy that machinery from the board. It will be a sort of circulating library under Government auspices. It will be like the words of the song which says, "And the music goes round and round," but in this case it will be the spindles which will be going round and round from mill to mill.

The textile machinery industry is a very important one. I have in my division very large works upon which some 7,000 men depend for their livelihood, and if, under this Bill, the Spindles Board is to be permitted to enter the second-hand machinery market—that is what this Bill allows—and compete against the up-to-date machinery made in my division it will have the effect of keeping out of employment large number of men. That is bad enough, but what is even worse is that some of our manufacturers will be fettered with and anchored to the old-fashioned machinery, as some of them are fettered with old-fashioned ideas.

When this machinery comes into the hands of the Spindles Board, there will operate the peculiar effect of the present rating system. When heavy machinery is in a mill and is being run, it is rated as machinery and obtains the benefit of derating, but the Spindles Board will lose that benefit. By some strange process of reasoning, it has been held in the courts that as soon as a cotton mill ceases to operate, the mill is no longer a cotton mill at all but is a warehouse, because it is sheltering the idle machinery contained in it. In my opinion it would be far better if the Spindles Board took all this redundant second-hand machinery, and put it under the hammer. If the mills of Lancashire were re-equipped with the latest gyroscopic spindles made in Accrington they would give increased production with less horse power, and would compete for the markets which we have lost through holding on to this obsolete machinery. I therefore beg the President of the Board of Trade to view this Amendment sympathetically, believing as I do that if he will accept it and help the trade to re-equip itself with the finest machinery, he will by that one act help the cotton trade more than by any other provision set out in the Bill.

Mr. REMER

I beg to second the Amendment.

6.16 p.m.

Dr. BURGIN

Nobody will differ in desiring that the Spindles Board should, as far as possible, not enter into the second-hand machinery market nor allow old machinery to circulate from mill to mill. The only point is whether it is well to leave that matter to the discretion of the Spindles Board or whether we should attempt to put into the Bill any precise words as to what the board shall or shall not do. The object of the Amendment is to secure that old machinery, which for this purpose is de- fined as machinery manufactured before 1900, should not be disposed of except for the purposes of being sold for scrap. I have no doubt that in practice the board will sell machinery which is out of date for scrap, but there are certain types of machinery of which it is possible to repair the wearing parts regardless of the date of manufacture of the frame or the engine as a whole. A carding engine, for instance, may be 40 years old, but it may he working economically and may be sound because the wearing parts have been brought up to date and modernised. The hon. and gallant Member for Acerington (Major Procter) would not be averse to receiving orders in his constituency for the modernisation of old carding machines and for the wearing parts to be brought up to date, and there is no reason why the Spindles Board should not have that power. The House will remember that under Sub-section (4) the Spindles Board have the power to maintain and repair property so far as it appears necessary.

Major PROCTER

Is it the intention of this board to go in for the manufacture and repair of machinery in addition to its other functions?

Dr. BURGIN

No, it is not. The idea of the Spindles Board is to realise to the best advantage the spindles it has acquired. The whole object of the Bill is, firstly, that redundant spindles shall be purchased, and, secondly, that the board, having acquired property, shall realise it to the best advantage. The board will scrap where necessary, sell where advisable, and exchange where exchange is dictated. It is to be a sensible body of people, and it is really impossible that we should put them in leading reins and indicate in this Bill exactly what can and cannot be done. I do not think that the age of machinery as such affords a criterion of its present value. The modernisation of a spinning frame built in 1899 may well make that frame a thoroughly useful piece of machinery today. The short answer to the Amendment is, of course, that this is essentially a practical business matter which we are leaving to people competent to handle it, namely, the members of the Spindles Board. We agree with the main idea behind the Amendment, but do not think it appropriate to insert it in the Bill and prefer to leave it to the discretion of the board.

6.19 p.m.

Mr. CLYNES

I do not think the Parliamentary Secretary has given an adequate answer to the case put up for the Amendment. If the Spindles Board is to be allowed, first, to buy machinery on the ground that it is redundant, and then to sell it presumably for use, we have surely in that sale proof of the fact that the machinery is not redundant at all. This Bill is full of provisions which tell the Spindles Board what it is and what it is not to do, and if in all other respects regarding its duties we are to lay down in the Bill what those duties are, and when we come to this primary matter we are to be told that it must be left to the discretion of the board, it is leaving a margin of liberty far too large to make this Bill useful. I gather from the arguments of the Parliamentary Secretary that he admits that the Spindles Board, having bought and then sold, might very well land us into a position where machinery may be actually sold, not twice after having been sold once, but three times, and sale and purchase may take place on the round and round illustration of the hon. and gallant Member for Accrington (Major Procter). It appears to me that if the liberty of the board is to be so large, the whole purpose of the Bill will be frustrated and the industry will not be assisted at all. If we are to have a working instrument we ought to prevent resale by the terms of the Bill. Otherwise, the purpose of the Bill will be destroyed.

6.22 p.m.

Mr. PETHERICK

The Parliamentary Secretary envisaged the possibility of machinery being sold. Suppose it is bought by the board and resold to another firm, I do not see how the question of redundancy is dealt with. Will the hon. Gentleman explain in what circumstances he is considering the possibility of the Spindles Board selling machinery?

Mr. H. G. WILLIAMS

I am not certain, having listened to the discussion, whether this Amendment is insufficient or not as well conceived as I thought it was. It might have been better to have moved an Amendment that the board shall not permit to be used any redundant plant it has bought. The Amendment only restricted it in respect of plant which was out of date. The date in the Amendment was selected having regard to certain changes in the development of design. I recognise that there is a problem which perhaps is not adequately covered by the Amendment. If I were the Spindles Board and were forced to buy a mill containing a large number of spindles and certain other plant, I would want to destroy the redundant spindles, but to preserve certain other pieces of plant, because in respect of them there may not be a redundancy or the same measure of redundancy.

Nevertheless, it is a little disturbing to be told that the object of the Bill is to reduce the number of spindles. We do not know by how many. We have never been able to discover the number because nobody has been able to tell us within 3,000,000 how many spindles there are. Whatever the number turns out to be, there is to be a reduction. It is absurd to set up this complicated mechanism to give the board power to enter into negotiations to buy up mills and obtain possession of the plant in order to reduce redundancy, and then to permit the board to put that plant into operation again. The Parliamentary Secretary said the board would be a sensible body of people. If it is to be a sensible body of people there can be no harm in telling them what they must not do. If, on the other hand, they are going to do this, then, if the Bill has the purpose which we have been led to believe it has, they are going to do something silly.

Colonel Sir JOHN SHUTE

Surely the hon. Member has missed the whole point of the Bill. In spite of all the discussions we have had in Committee, he remains obstinate in not understanding it. If I buy spindles from the board, I shall at the same time have to destroy an eqivalent number of spindles in my hands.

Mr. WILLIAMS

I understand that what the board is going to do, according to that clear and intelligent interruption, is to buy good spindles in order to present them to somebody who has some rotten spindles. I should have thought an intelligent board would have bought the rotten spindles and destroyed them instead of becoming second-hand dealers in good spindles. That is what the inter- ruption means, but if the hon. and gallant Gentleman means something different perhaps he will explain later on. Is the board going to put into use spindles which have been bought as redundant? That is the simple question to which we want an answer. The Parliamentary Secretary mentioned a carding engine 40 years old. I remember visiting an engineering factory in Lancashire in 1922 where there was working machinery 60 years old. They s Lid that although the machine was old its output completely balanced the output of the rest of the plant, and there was no advantage in scrapping it. If the Parliamentary Secretary merely wants the board to do that, I agree that the objection to the Amendment is sound, but if he wants the board to set up in business of secondhand dealers in spindles, we are entitled to a further explanation.

6.27 p.m.

Dr. BURGIN

I can only, of course, reply by permission of the House. Surely a spindle can be redundant, either because, whatever its age, there are too many of them, or because, however new it may be, it is in a concern which is not working or able to work. The Board will be able by this Bill to acquire a spindle in either of these cases. Having acquired the spindle, the Board is not going to set up in the business of using the machine. It will realise the assets that it has acquired and it will go to work always within the powers of Clause 2, Subsection (1) (a), that is to say, with a view to the elimination of redundant spinning machinery. That is the statutory power which the Spindles Board is at all times addressing itself to carry out.

Mr. SILVERMAN

The hon. Gentleman is obviously accepting the explanation in principle given by the hon. and gallant Member for the Exchange Division of Liverpool (Sir I. Shute), but is there one word in the Bill to necessitate that when the Spindles Board disposes of spindles to a concern the concern is to sacrifice an equivalent number of spindles?

Dr. BURGIN

The hon. Member will find in a later provision of the Bill that we deal with what has to happen when a purchaser of spit dies buys. My answer to the House is not dependent on an explanation given by an hon. and gallant Member, whether he represents the Exchange Division of Liverpool or anywhere else. In point of fact, the explanation given was a very obvious and proper one. It fits in with his statement, but that is not the basis of the reply I gave. I pointed out how spindles of various ages might be bought under varying conditions and that the Spindles Board, having acquired them, would desire to reap some gain by getting rid of them either as scrap or by exchange with a reputable firm or by direct sale. I am inclined to think that the probabilities are that a direct sale is unlikely or will happen very rarely. The number of occasions when the opportunity is likely to be presented to the Spindles Board of disposing by sale of the machinery they have acquired is, I should think, very small indeed. What I think is more likely is that somebody will come along to the Spindles Board and say, "You have what appear to me to be some perfectly good, modern spindles which you have acquired from such and such a concern. I think I could make use of those spindles. I will destroy or I will exchange so many of the spindles I have which are older or less efficient"—

Major PROCTER

Is that in the Bill?

Dr. BURGIN

"—and acquire from you, the Spindles Board, the newer spindles." The hon. and gallant Member asks whether that is in the Bill. What is in the Bill is this. Clause 2, Sub-section (4) states: The Spindles Board may dismantle, break up, sell or otherwise dispose of any property, rights or interests acquired by them.

Major PROCTER

In exchange?

Dr. BURGIN

The words are "sell or otherwise dispose of." I am asked whether that means "exchange." Of course it does.

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

There is one point which I should like to have cleared up. The statement made by the hon. and gallant Member for the Exchange Division of Liverpool (Sir J. Shute) is not quite correct. I think such a provision was in the Bill as it was presented, but Clause 15 is out and where is there anything in the Bill now which makes it obligatory upon a man who gets new machinery to scrap an equivalent lot of old machinery? That is not in the Bill now.

Dr. BURGIN

The hon. Member will bear in mind Clause 2, Sub-section (1) (a) where it says: the Spindles Board may … acquire by agreement … such machinery and other things whatsoever in or on premises or land used … as the Board consider it expedient to acquire with a view to the elimination of redundant spinning machinery. Is it not implicit in those words that the board will only acquire machinery if, by their action, the amount of cotton spinning machinery is reduced?

Mr. HOLDSWORTH

I agree on that. point, but the point I am trying to make is that there is no obligation put upon the man who wants to buy additional machinery to scrap an equivalent amount of old machinery. The hon. and gallant Member for the Exchange Division (Sir J. Shute) said in his interruption that there was but that is completely wrong, because Clause 15 has been taken out of the Bill.

Dr. BURGIN

The hon. Member for South Bradford (Mr. Holdsworth) is right in saying that the specific words to which he refers were taken out of the Bill, but I think my argument rests on the implicit deduction from the words I have quoted.

Mr. SILVERMAN

As I understand it the obligation is not to be found in the Bill at all. What the hon. Gentleman is saying is that the Spindles Board will conduct operations with a view to advancing the general purpose of the Measure, and no doubt that is so. No doubt the Spindles Board will endeavour, even when it is disposing of perfectly good spindles, to see that the general object of the elimination of redundant spindles is served, but it is one thing for the Spindles Board to sell spindles with a view to certain things happening and quite another thing to ensure that those things actually happen. As the Measure stands, may not the Spindles Board sell in good faith to a concern with a view to the elimination of redundant spindles and, after the operation is over, find there has been no elimination at all? Would it not be easier for everybody concerned, and be of assistance to the Spindles Board, if the Amendment now proposed were agreed to?

Major PROCTER

Is the Parliamentary Secretary quite right in his statement that the Spindles Board will not operate mills? There is nothing in the Bill to prevent it.

Dr. BURGIN

In reply to the last question, which is a relatively simple one compared with some of the others, I can say that the Spindles Board is a statutory Corporation and will only have the powers which are given to it by the Bill, and as there is no power under Clause 2 to operate spindle machinery I can tell the House definitely that the Spindles Board has no such power. That is quite clear. With regard to the question put in the form of a speech by the hon. Member for Nelson and Colne (Mr. Silverman) I think there is something in what he said, but the answer is this—that he presupposes the Spindles Board will sell without inquiry. I think the hon. Member said that the Spindles Board might sell in perfect good faith and then find that the purchaser did not comply with the undertaking or assurances given. That seems to suggest that the Spindles. Board will sell without having secured satisfactory guarantees as to what will happen once the purchaser has acquired the machinery.

Mr. SILVERMAN

If this Amendment were accepted would it not make things absolutely certain and save the Spindles Board making a lot of superfluous inquiries?

Dr. BURGIN

I think the hon. Member has failed to understand what the Amendment implies. It says that machinery defined in a particular way, that is to say machinery manufactured before a particular dale, shall not be disposed of. That is quite another point. That is an attempt to define arbitrarily what is or what is not efficient machinery. What he is now asking is something much wider. He is asking me to say that no machinery when disposed of by the Spindles Board shall ever be used again.

Mr. SILVERMAN

Unless an equivalent amount of old machinery is sacrificed.

Dr. BURGIN

Whatever merit there is in that point, it does not arise on this Amendment, and it is sufficient for my purpose to deal with the Amendment. The Amendment says that machinery which is earlier than that date must not be used again, leaving it to be implied that machinery which is within the date could be used again. What the House is now asking me to say is that machinery whether before or after that date, the most modern or the most ancient, shall never be used unless some conditions are attached to its sale. It is sufficient for me to say at the moment that that point does not arise on this Amendment.

Question put, "That those words be there inserted in the Bill."

The House divided: Ayes, 117; Noes, 232.

Division No. 128.] AYES. [6.40 p.m.
Adams, D. (Consett) Ede, J. C. McGovern, J.
Adamson, W. M. Edwards, A. (Middlesbrough E.) MacLaren, A.
Alexander, Rt. Hon. A. V. (H'lsbr.) Edwards, Sir C. (Bedwellty) Maclean, N.
Anderson, F. (Whitehaven) Fletcher, Lt.-Comdr. R. T. H. MacMillan, M. (Western Isles)
Attlee, Rt. Hon. C. R. Gallacher, W. Marklew, E.
Banfield, J. W. Gardner, B. W. Marshall, F.
Barnes, A. J. Greenwood, Rt. Hon. A. Maxton, J,
Barr, J. Hall, J. H. (Whitechapel) Messer, F.
Batey, J. Hardie, G. D. Milner, Major J.
Bellenger, F. Henderson, J. (Ardwick) Montague, F.
Benson, G. Henderson, T. (Tradeston) Morrison, R. C. (Tottenham, N.)
Bevan, A. Holland, A. Muff, G.
Bromfield, W. Hollins, A. Oliver, G. H.
Brooke, W. Hopkin, D. Paling, W.
Buchanan, G. Jagger, J. Parkinson, J. A.
Burke, W. A. Jenkins, Sir W. (Neath) Pethick-Lawrence, F. W.
Cape, T. Jones, Morgan (Caerphilly) Potts, J.
Charleton, H. C. Kennedy, Rt. Hon. T. Price, M. P.
Chater, D. Kirby, B. V. Pritt, D. N.
Cluse, W. S. Kirkwood, D. Procter, Major H. A.
Clynes, Rt. Hon. J. R. Lansbury, Rt. Hon. G. Quibell, J. D.
Cocks, F. S. Lathan, G. Ritson, J
Cove, W. G. Lawson, J. J. Roberts, Rt. Hon. F. O. (W. Brom.)
Cripps, Hon. Sir Stafford Leach, w. Robinson, W. A. (St. Helens)
Daggar, G. Lee, F. Rowson, G.
Dalton, H. Leonard, W. Sanders, W. S.
Davies, R. J. (Westhoughton) Leslie, J. R. Sexton, T. M.
Davies, S. O. (Merthyr) Logan, D. G. Shinwell, E.
Dobble, W. Macdonald, G. (Ince) Short, A.
Dunn, E. (Rother Valley) McGhee, H. G. Silverman, S. S.
Simpson, F. B. Thurtle, E. Williams, E. J. (Ogmore)
Smith, Ben (Rotherhithe) Tinker, J. J. Williams, H. G. (Croydon, 5.)
Smith, E. (Stoke) Viant, S. P. Williams, T. (Don Valley)
Smith, Rt. Hon. H. B. Lees- (K'ly) Walker, J. Wilson, C. H. (Attercliffe)
Smith, T. (Normanton) Watkins, F. C. Windsor, W (Hull, C.)
Sorensen, R. W. Watson, W. McL. Woods, G. S. (Finsbury)
Stephen, C. Westwood, J. Young, Sir R. (Newton)
Stewart, W. J. (H'ght'n-le-Sp'ng) Whiteley, W.
Taylor, R. J. (Morpeth) Wilkinson, Ellen TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Thorne, W. Williams, D. (Swansea, E.) Mr. Groves and Mr. Mathers.
NOES.
Acland, Rt. Hon. Sir F. Dyke Evans, E. (Univ. of Wales) Mander, G. le M.
Acland-Troyte, Lt.-Col. G. J. Fildes, Sir H. Manningham-Buller, Sir M.
Adams, S. V. T. (Leeds, W.) Findlay, Sir E. Margesson, Capt. Rt. Hon. H. D. R.
Agnew, Lieut.-Comdr. P. G. Fraser, Capt. Sir I. Markham, S. F.
Alexander, Brig.-Gen. Sir W. Furness, S. N. Mason, Lt.-Col. Hon. G. K. M.
Allen, Lt.-Col. J. Sandeman (B'kn'hd) Fyfe, D. P. M. Maxwell, S. A.
Amery, Rt. Hon. L. C. M. S. Ganzoni, Sir J. Mayhew, Lt.-Col. J.
Anstruther-Gray, W. J. George, Major G. Lloyd (Pembroke) Mellor, Sir J. S. P. (Tamworth)
Aske, Sir R. W. George, Megan Lloyd (Anglesey) Mills, Sir F. (Leyton, E.)
Assheton, R. Gilmour, Lt.-Col. Rt. Hon. Sir J. Mills, Major J. D. (New Forest)
Atholl, Duchess of Gledhill, G. Moreing, A. C.
Baldwin, Rt. Hon. Stanley Glyn, Major Sir R. G. C. Morgan, R. H.
Balniel, Lord Goldie, N. B. Morrison, G. A. (Scottish Univ's.)
Baxter, A. Beverley Goodman, Col. A. W. Muirhead, Lt.-Col, A. J.
Beaumont, M. W. (Aylesbury) Graham Captain A. C. (Wirral) Munro, P. M.
Beaumont, Hon. R. E. B. (Portsm'h) Grattan-Doyle, Sir N. Neven-Spence, Maj. B. H.
Beit, Sir A. L. Greene, W. P. C. (Worcester) Nicolson, Hon. H. G.
Bernays, R. H. Gretton, Col. Rt. Hon. J. Orr-Ewing, I. L.
Blair, Sir R. Gridley, Sir A. B. Owen, Major G.
Blindell, Sir J. Griffith, F. Kingsley (M'ddl'sbro, W.) Palmer, G. E. H.
Bossom, A. C. Grimston, R. V. Patrick, C. M.
Bowater, Col. Sir T. Vansittart Gritten, W. G. Howard Peake, O.
Bracken, B. Guest, Maj. Hon. O.(C'mb'rw'll', N. W.) Penny, Sir G.
Briscoe, Capt. R. G. Guy, J. C. M. Petherick, M.
Brocklebank, C. E. R. Hamilton, Sir G. C. Pickthorn, K. W. M.
Brown, Col. D. C. (Hexham) Hanbury, Sir C. Plikington, R.
Brown, Rt. Hon. E. (Leith) Hannah, I. C. Ponsonby, Col. C. E.
Brown, Brig.-Gen. H. C. (Newbury) Hannon, Sir P. J. H. Radford, E. A.
Browne, A. C. (Belfast, W.) Harbord, A. Ramsay, Captain A. H. M.
Bull, B. B. Harvey, G. Ramsden, Sir E.
Burgin, Dr. E. L. Haslam, Sir J. (Bolton) Rankin, R.
Campbell, Sir E. T. Herbert, Major J. A. (Monmouth) Rayner, Major R. H.
Cartland, J. R. H. Hills, Major Rt. Hon. J. W. (Ripon) Reid, W. Allan (Derby)
Cary, R. A. Holdsworth, H. Roberts, W. (Cumberland, N.)
Cautley, Sir H. S. Holmes, J. S. Robinson, J. R. (Blackpool).
Cayzer, Sir C. W. (City of Chester) Hope, Captain Hon. A. O. J. Ropner, Colonel L.
Cazalet, Thelma (Islington, E.) Hore- Bellsha, Rt. Hon. L. Ross Taylor, W. (Woodbridge)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. N. (Edgb't'n) Howitt, Dr. A. B. Rowlands, G.
Clarke, F. E. Hudson, Capt. A. U. M. (Hack., N.) Ruggles-Brise, Colonel Sir E. A.
Clarry, R. G. Hulbert, N. J. Runclman, Rt. Hon. W.
Colville, Lt.-Col. D. J. Hume, Sir G. H. Russell, A. West (Tynemouth)
Cook, T. R. A. M. (Norfolk N.) Hurd, Sir P. A. Russell, R. J. (Eddisbury)
Cooke, J. D. (Hammersmith, S.) Inskip, Rt. Hon. Sir T. W. H. Samuel, Sir A. M. (Farnham)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. A. Duff(W'st'r S.G'gs) Jones, H. Haydn (Merioneth) Samuel, M. R. A. (Putney)
Cooper, Rt. Hn. T. M. (E'nburgh, W.) Jones, L. (Swansea, W.) Sanderson, Sir F. B.
Craddock, Sir R. H. Keeling, E. H. Sandys, E. D.
Critchley, A. Kerr, Colonel C. I. (Montrose) Sassoon, Rt. Hon. Sir P.
Croft, Brig.-Gen. Sir H. Page Kerr, H. W. (Oldham) Scott, Lord William
Crookshank, Capt. H. F. C. Kerr, J. G. (Scottish Universities) Seely, Sir H. M.
Croom-Johnson, R. P. Kirkpatrick, W. M. Shakespeare, G. H.
Cross, R. H. Lamb, Sir J. Q. Shaw, Captain W. T. (Forfar)
Crossley, A. C. Lambert, Rt. Hon. G. Shepperson, Sir E. W.
Crowder, J. F. E. Latham, Sir P. Shute, Colonel Sir J. J.
Culverwell, C. T. Law, R. K. (Hull, S.W.) Sinclair, Rt. Hon. Sir A. (C'thn's)
Davies, C. (Montgomery) Leckie, J. A. Smith, L. W. (Hallam)
Davies, Major G. F. (Yeovil) Leech, Dr. J. W. Somervell, Sir D. B. (Crewe)
Davison, Sir W. H. Lees-Jones, J. Somerville, A. A. (Windsor)
De Chair, S. S. Leighton, Major B. E. P. Somerville, D. G. (Willesden, E.)
Denman, Hon. R. D. Levy, T. Southby, Comdr. A. R. J.
Denville, Alfred Lewis, O. Spears, Brig.-Gen. E, L.
Dodd, J. S. Liddail, W. S. Spens, W. P.
Dorman-Smith, Major R. H. Lovat-Fraser, J. A. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Fyide)
Drewe, C. Mabane, W. (Huddersfield) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Oliver (W'm'l'd)
Duckworth, G. A. V. (Salop) M'Connell, Sir J. Storey, S.
Duckworth, W. R. (Moss Side) McCorquodale, M. S. Strauss, H. G. (Norwich)
Dugdale, Major T. L. MacDonald, Rt. Hn. J. R. (Scot. U.) Strickland, Captain W. F.
Dunglass, Lord MacDonald, Rt. Hon M. (Ross) Sueter, Rear-Admiral sir M. F.
Elliston, G. S. MacDonald, Sir Murdoch (Inverness) Sutcliffe, H.
Elmley, Viscount McKie, J. H. Thomas, J. P. L. (Hereford)
Emrys-Evans, P. V. Maclay, Hon. J. P. Touche, G. C.
Errington, E. Magnay, T. Tree, A. R. L. F.
Evans, D. O. (Cardigan) Making, Brig.-Gen. E. Tryon, Major Rt. Hon. G. C.
Turton, H. H. White, H. Graham Wragg, H.
Wallace, Captain Euan Williams, C. (Torquay) Young, A. S. L. (Partick)
Ward, Lieut.-Col. Sir A. L. (Hull) Wilson, Lt.-Col. Sir A. T. (Hitchin)
Ward, Irene (Wallsend) Windsor-Clive, Lieut.-Colonel G. TELLERS FOR THE NOES.—
Warrender, Sir V. Wolmer, Rt. Hon. Viscount Mr. James Stuart and Lieut.-
Waterhouse, Captain C. Womersley, Sir W. J. Colonel Llewellin.
Wells, S. R. Wood, Rt. Hon. Sir Kingsley

6.49 p.m.

Dr. BURGIN

I beg to move, in page 3, line 19, after "on," to insert "in connection with cotton-spinning."

During the Committee stage, an Amendment was moved to exclude gassing from the list of processes in Sub-section (5) of the Clause. The grounds were not very clearly stated, but the Government promised to look into the question of the meaning of the term "gassing." There is no ground for treating gassing differently from any other process in the list and in consequence gassing will not be omitted. There is, however, some case for considering a suggestion that the Sub-section, as drafted, might be taken as authorising the purchase of gassing or warping plant, for instance, belonging to concerns which were not engaged in cotton spinning, and this Amendment definitely limits the machinery which the Spindles Board may buy to machinery used in cotton spinning, as was the original intention of the Clause. If this Amendment is agreed to, there will be a consequential Amendment later, to Clause 21.

Amendment agreed to.